Tatar, Athanasiou, and XO's new deals

[kylee 727]

1 hour ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

Funny thing is that he is average mediocre talent...he'll fit right in with the rest of them 5, 7 years who cares.

Tatar is mediocre? He's one of the few players we have that has natural scoring ability. Give him a long term deal. 

[kickazz 5,459]

12 minutes ago, kylee said:

Tatar is mediocre? He's one of the few players we have that has natural scoring ability. Give him a long term deal. 

He's definitely not elite. Usually those guys get locked in.

But yeah these days everyone gets locked in so..

Edited July 13, 2017 by kickazz

[kylee 727]

11 minutes ago, kickazz said:

He's definitely not elite. Usually those guys get locked in.

But yeah these days everyone gets locked in so..

Tyler Johnson definitely isn't elite either. Tatar has the potential to be a consistent 30+ goal scorer - we need him badly. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Funny thing is that he is average mediocre talent...he'll fit right in with the rest of them 5, 7 years who cares.

He's far more talented than the grinders Holland rewarded, but he's not from Michigan or Western Canada so they play hardball with him. The new way of doing business in Detroit is valuing hard working guys with limited ability who are from the Right Places over talent.

Sent by my minions via telepathy

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

41 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

He's far more talented than the grinders Holland rewarded, but he's not from Michigan or Western Canada so they play hardball with him. The new way of doing business in Detroit is valuing hard working guys with limited ability who are from the Right Places over talent.

Sent by my minions via telepathy
 

That's just business though man. At the end of the day theyre not a sports team. Theyre an entertainment company. And their primary area of entertainment is Detroit, and the surrounding area of Michigan. Honorable mention to southern Ontario. Having guys on the team who are originally from 2 towns over from you, who played for the college you graduated from, helps build a connection with your average customer. I think it's fair to say youre a bit more cynical than an average customer, and we are all a bit more involved than an average customer. If i was in the driver seat in 83 I totally would have drafted LaFontaine. You can sell that. Fans eat that up. Can you imagine what would happen if you drafted Yzerman with LaFontaine still on the board, and Pat turns out better? Youre fires. Fortunately the Red Wings were not able to make that decision and Yzerman turned out better.

[Juklitz 85]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Synthetic Ice.

No, it´s standard ice, they started with new ice preparation on 29th of June per their pages. I´m little bit shocked, it´s very small town and their local club isn´t playing regular league. 

But I can see they have full ice schedule with training camps till end of August. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, Juklitz said:

No, it´s standard ice, they started with new ice preparation on 29th of June per their pages. I´m little bit shocked, it´s very small town and their local club isn´t playing regular league. 

But I can see they have full ice schedule with training camps till end of August. 

I was more so responding to the plastic ice comment. What makes you so sure it's real ice though? If it is, it appears to be extremely poor quality. Where are they practicing in that vid?

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

7 hours ago, kylee said:

Tatar is mediocre? He's one of the few players we have that has natural scoring ability. Give him a long term deal. 

We continue to lock up players that aren't special and gripe about having no cap room. Start saving the space for Mantha Larkin and others who matter and let the bad deals end if Hollands never going to make a trade. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

We continue to lock up players that aren't special and gripe about having no cap room. Start saving the space for Mantha Larkin and others who matter and let the bad deals end if Hollands never going to make a trade. 

I think most would agree with this. An argument can be made for any / all of Nielsen, Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Ericsson being bad contracts. The thing that people disagree with is Tatar being one of those "bad" players (contracts).

[kickazz 5,459]

7 hours ago, kylee said:

Tyler Johnson definitely isn't elite either. Tatar has the potential to be a consistent 30+ goal scorer - we need him badly. 

No but Tyler Johnson is a playoff god for Tampa

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I don't care if it's 8 yrs. As long as it's $5M or less and he loses the attitude! But in this rare case, I agree with Holland. Maybe he's trying to not hand out the lo my deals anymore. May he wants to give him 5 yrs so he's not paying an old guy into his mid 30's.

Edited July 13, 2017 by LeftWinger

[kickazz 5,459]

42 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I don't care if it's 8 yrs. As long as it's $5M or less and he loses the attitude! But in this rare case, I agree with Holland. Maybe he's trying to not hand out the lo my deals anymore. May he wants to give him 5 yrs so he's not paying an old guy into his mid 30's.

None of our current contracts are past 2022. If Holland has offered him a 5 year deal, that also falls into 2022. Whatever Holland's plans are, he doesn't seem to be committed to anything past 2022 (the next 5 years). Maybe he's waiting to see how Mantha, Svech, AA, Larkin turn out and will build the team around them further. 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

My issue is the way he handled Helm, Abdelkader, Glendening, and Dekeyser.  All of them got around the max they could have been expected to get in free agency, and Dekeyser is the only one who has a real shot at being worth it.  Now there's no room to give contracts to the guys you need to pay to keep because he gave the money to grinders that could have been replaced with cheaper players without losing much.  Take a total of $1.8 mil from each of the 3 3rd or 4th liners he overpaid "just a little" and there isn't an issue paying Tatar.  I don't like 7 year deals, but I'd rather give it to a younger scorer like Tatar than a guy who's going to be starting the back half of his career when the deal starts like Abdelkader.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

2 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

My issue is the way he handled Helm, Abdelkader, Glendening, and Dekeyser.  All of them got around the max they could have been expected to get in free agency, and Dekeyser is the only one who has a real shot at being worth it.  Now there's no room to give contracts to the guys you need to pay to keep because he gave the money to grinders that could have been replaced with cheaper players without losing much.  Take a total of $1.8 mil from each of the 3 3rd or 4th liners he overpaid "just a little" and there isn't an issue paying Tatar.  I don't like 7 year deals, but I'd rather give it to a younger scorer like Tatar than a guy who's going to be starting the back half of his career when the deal starts like Abdelkader.

This is not currently a problem. We haven't been forced to let anyone go. In fact, we signed free agents with our extra cap space.

3 hours ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

We continue to lock up players that aren't special and gripe about having no cap room. Start saving the space for Mantha Larkin and others who matter and let the bad deals end if Hollands never going to make a trade. 

As Dabura has pointed out and some of the articles on Tatar's contract, on 30 NHL players have scored more than him in the past 3 years. Don't get why you consider that "average, mediocre talent."

Tatar's contract wouldn't be part of the problem.

[kickazz 5,459]

3 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

As Dabura has pointed out and some of the articles on Tatar's contract, on 30 NHL players have scored more than him in the past 3 years. Don't get why you consider that "average, mediocre talent."

 

Not to take away from your point but if 30 players have scored more than him in 3 years, that doesn't sound all the impressive lol. Just means he isnt a top 10, top 20 or a top 25 goal scorer. Somewhere outside of top 30 goal scoring, certainly not average or mediocre but.. not THAT special either.

Edited July 13, 2017 by kickazz

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

19 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Not to take away from your point but if 30 players have scored more than him in 3 years, that doesn't sound all the impressive lol. Just means he isnt a top 10, top 20 or a top 25 goal scorer. Somewhere outside of top 30 goal scoring, certainly not average or mediocre but.. not THAT special either.

Nobody's arguing that he's elite. That would be the top 10 guys 

[kickazz 5,459]

56 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Nobody's arguing that he's elite. That would be the top 10 guys 

Right but he's not even a top 20 or 25 or top 30 goal scorer. 

So he's above average I guess?

[e_prime 1,936]

13 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Right but he's not even a top 20 or 25 or top 30 goal scorer. 

So he's above average I guess?

He's a'ight.  Let's call it that.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

I see him as a 2nd line winger, so if a 2nd/3rd line guys is average, he's a above average. I wouldn't call him a top line guy. In my mind those guys are noticeable difference makers almost every shift like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Hossa. Tatar I think is more of a Filppula, Hudler, Franzen type.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

24 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Right but he's not even a top 20 or 25 or top 30 goal scorer. 

So he's above average I guess?

Definitely above average for goal scoring. Even If you only consider top 6 forwards as potential scorers, that's 180 guys in the league (6X30). That 31st ranking in goals for the past 3 years puts him solidly in the top quarter as a top 6 scorer.

Edited July 13, 2017 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Word going around that we're still talking to Vanek and he wants to come back...not sure how that'll work with Tatar and AA getting the rest of the cap...unless there's about $4.75M going on LTIR.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

6 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Definitely above average for goal scoring. Even If you only consider top 6 forwards as potential scorers, that's 180 guys in the league (6X30). That 31st ranking in goals for the past 3 years puts him solidly in the top quarter as a top 6 scorer.

Basically he's the 2nd best goal scorer on any team, statistically

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

18 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I see him as a 2nd line winger, so if a 2nd/3rd line guys is average, he's a above average. I wouldn't call him a top line guy. In my mind those guys are noticeable difference makers almost every shift like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Hossa. Tatar I think is more of a Filppula, Hudler, Franzen type.

Franzen was a beast before the concussions though. Especially in the playoffs 

[HockeytownRules19 902]

Tatar come on man

[DickieDunn 2,571]

2 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

This is not currently a problem. We haven't been forced to let anyone go. In fact, we signed free agents with our extra cap space.

 

If Tatar gets $5 mil and AA get's $2.2 mil, that puts them about $4.3 mil over the cap with 22 guys on the roster.  It's a problem