Tatar, Athanasiou, and XO's new deals

[sputman 1,268]

I don't really want him. He scores some goals once-in-a-while but he's not a game-changer by any stretch. I'd rather see someone cheap from GR in his place. Face it, nobody here is going to be happy next year if we come close to making the playoffs, and I can't imagine anybody at this point thinking we have a chance at getting past the 1st round if we do get in. He's certainly not going to carry us. We need a high draft pick next year. Why pay that much money for somebody (nearly the same amount of money that Z gets) to score a goal now and then to get us that much closer to the ninth seed and a lower draft pick?

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Ya, I agree, just trade him. Even $5M for 5 years isn't going to make a difference for us, it'll just be another overpaid guy scoring 20 goals...maybe. Sign Vanek for cheaper and much less term, then use the money for Larkin and Mantha...we're going to need it!

[joesuffP 1,746]

Tatar is very good secondary scorer. Pretty much the exact same player and impact as Hudler

[LeftWinger 4,953]

There you go. This should help structure Tatar contract. 

 

 

[kickazz 5,459]

I agree. Tatar is not a game changer for this team. He scores goals, usually off of amazing Zetterberg (and previously Datsyuk) assists. I'm not sure if making him close to the highest paid player on the team is the right thing to do. 

AA scored 18 goals in 20 less games than Tatar. Except AA can also kill penalties and is super fast. Of course AA gets sheltered minutes too but his linemates aren't as good as Tatar's. 

I just don't think losing Tatar is going to hurt us as much as others might think, we have plenty of young guys coming through that will more than make up for his 25 goals.

Additionally, last season Tatar wasn't really that much better than others at goal scoring. All of AA, Mantha and Tatar scored at about the same rate. The only difference is Tatar got to play 20+ more games than both of them. 

The year before last year, Larkin outscored Tatar. And he's supposed to be more of a set-up guy. 

I think people see the "25 goal" mark from last season and are automatically assuming "great" goal scorer. But if you look at the full context, all of AA, Mantha, Tatar, Larkin, Vanek are one in the same in the goals department. AA and Mantha are probably better actually and they're not even close to their primes yet, while Tatar probably is in his prime. 

So why give him 7 years when you have younger players already producing at the same rate? I say Holland sticks to his offer and if Tatar doesn't want it then flip him for a nice trade. This is a win-win situation for Holland and the Red Wings imo. If Tatar takes the cheaper offer, great, if not, then we get something back and we have plenty of players to replace him. 

I can see a nice Mantha - Zetterberg - AA line after this season. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by kickazz

[Wingnut1989 165]

we need a constant 30+ goal scorer for that money

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Consistent 30 goal guys get a lot more than $5 mil. Look what Parise got, although that was in part to and Suter

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[joesuffP 1,746]

The problem is Holland needs to get a return on Tatar at the very least. Trading him at the deadline would be the worst case scenario

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Consistent 30 goal guys get a lot more than $5 mil. Look what Parise got, although that was in part to and Suter

Sent by my minions via telepathy
 

All the more reason to tell Tatar peace out if he wants more. 

Edited July 15, 2017 by kickazz

[barabbas16 499]

14 hours ago, joesuffP said:

Tatar is very good secondary scorer. Pretty much the exact same player and impact as Hudler

I can agree with this post regarding Tatar and Hudler offensively.  Tatar isn't always the slowest guy on the ice like Hudler, though, so I don't think he's not as much of a defensive liability.

[barabbas16 499]

15 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Tatar is not much better than Filppula or Hudler during their tenure here. If they can walk, he can walk.

Letting Filppula walk was a mistake, though.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Letting Filppula walk was a mistake, though.

They didn't "let" him walk, he had no desire to come back.

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[e_prime 1,936]

23 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

They didn't "let" him walk, he had no desire to come back.

Sent by my minions via telepathy
 

To me the letting Filpulla go is more of a "Why didn't we flip Filp at the deadline?" rather than "Why didn't we re-sign him?"  ...but that's the nature of being a "contender."  Keeping those pending UFAs for the playoffs and then losing them to Free Agency.  ...but if you know he had no desire to come back, then it truly is a question of why didn't you trade him??

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

3 minutes ago, e_prime said:

To me the letting Filpulla go is more of a "Why didn't we flip Filp at the deadline?" rather than "Why didn't we re-sign him?"  ...but that's the nature of being a "contender."  Keeping those pending UFAs for the playoffs and then losing them to Free Agency.  ...but if you know he had no desire to come back, then it truly is a question of why didn't you trade him??

From what I've heard he did want to come back. He came back and asked hill and for the deal he was originally offered. Holland declined, as he already spent the money on Weiss. 

[LeftWinger 4,953]

1 hour ago, Euro_Twins said:

From what I've heard he did want to come back. He came back and asked hill and for the deal he was originally offered. Holland declined, as he already spent the money on Weiss. 

Wait, Holland offered him a contract, he didn't accept, then when he wants the offered contract, it's no longer on the table? No.....that never happens <cough cough> Fedorov <cough cough>

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Of course offers are time sensitive. Lots of decisions have to be made over short periods of time. That's not on the Wings that he decided to change his mind or retract his demands. He made that mistake and both sides ending up losing.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

2 hours ago, Euro_Twins said:

From what I've heard he did want to come back. He came back and asked hill and for the deal he was originally offered. Holland declined, as he already spent the money on Weiss. 

Yeah, He just wanted to check out free agency and talk to other teams to see what options are out there.

This is why it's so good that there's now that period before free agency when players get to talk to all teams before committing. If that was around then, we'd have Filppula, we wouldn't have signed Weiss - therefor we wouldn't have that buyout penalty for the next few years. And we probably wouldn't have signed Neilson, so we'd be in a better position with the cap.

Edited July 15, 2017 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[chaps80 1,591]

Yeah, He just wanted to check out free agency and talk to other teams to see what options are out there.
This is why it's so good that there's now that period before free agency when players get to talk to all teams before committing. If that was around then, we'd have Filppula, we wouldn't have signed Weiss - therefor we wouldn't have that buyout penalty for the next few years. And we probably wouldn't have signed Neilson, so we'd be in a better position with the cap.

I didn't care less if Flip walked, but good points. No Weiss, probably no Nielson. God damn I hate that Nielson signing. With that term and length, and what he brings, it's immovable until the summer before the last season at best, or the last season's deadline to a contender looking for veteran scoring help (if the Wings are not contenders themselves again by then).


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[joesuffP 1,746]

I think the Wings got the best years out of flip

 

the highlight of his career was that Beaty goal in the finals in 08 where he dove and hooked the puck in

Edited July 15, 2017 by joesuffP

[kickazz 5,459]

4 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

They didn't "let" him walk, he had no desire to come back.

Sent by my minions via telepathy
 

After his 9 goals and 8 assists in 41 games he should have been too embarrassed to come back anyways. 

1 hour ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Yeah, He just wanted to check out free agency and talk to other teams to see what options are out there.

This is why it's so good that there's now that period before free agency when players get to talk to all teams before committing. If that was around then, we'd have Filppula, we wouldn't have signed Weiss - therefor we wouldn't have that buyout penalty for the next few years. And we probably wouldn't have signed Neilson, so we'd be in a better position with the cap.

What makes you sure we wouldn't have bought out Filpula? His last stint with the Wings was terrible. He then went to a much better team and did okay. 

Edited July 15, 2017 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

He wasnt any worse than Weiss or Nielsen.

He's way worse than Nielsen

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[jaymac17 10]

He wasnt any worse than Weiss or Nielsen.

Weiss was worse. Nielsen was much better

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[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

He wasnt any worse than Weiss or Nielsen.

As bad as Weiss and much worse than Nielsen. 

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

2 hours ago, kickazz said:

After his 9 goals and 8 assists in 41 games he should have been too embarrassed to come back anyways. 

What makes you sure we wouldn't have bought out Filpula? His last stint with the Wings was terrible. He then went to a much better team and did okay. 

Weiss:   13-14: 24gp, 2g, 4pts     14-15: 52gp. 9g, 25pts     =29pts

Filppula:13-14: 75gp, 25g, 58pts 14-15: 82gp, 12g, 48pts   =106pts 

Filppula has never been an amazing player, but I think he would unquestionably have been a better option than Weiss. Much of Weiss' struggles and his eventual buyout were due to his extensive injury problems. It looks like Filppula has only missed 16 games in his 4 years away from the Wings. Some might be cursing his 5 mill caphit, but it wouldn't have been an unmoveable piece like Weiss. Just look at how the lightning traded him to the Flyers in anticipation of the expansion draft. They got Streit, and 4th + 7th round picks. I don't see any reason why he would have been bought out if we had re-signed him.

His last year in Detroit was pretty bad, but he had injured his medial collateral ligament in his right knee (had to look it up to remember the injury) during the lockout that year and never really got on track due to the injury.

[kickazz 5,459]

16 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Weiss:   13-14: 24gp, 2g, 4pts     14-15: 52gp. 9g, 25pts     =29pts

Filppula:13-14: 75gp, 25g, 58pts 14-15: 82gp, 12g, 48pts   =106pts 

Filppula has never been an amazing player, but I think he would unquestionably have been a better option than Weiss. Much of Weiss' struggles and his eventual buyout were due to his extensive injury problems. It looks like Filppula has only missed 16 games in his 4 years away from the Wings. Some might be cursing his 5 mill caphit, but it wouldn't have been an unmoveable piece like Weiss. Just look at how the lightning traded him to the Flyers in anticipation of the expansion draft. They got Streit, and 4th + 7th round picks. I don't see any reason why he would have been bought out if we had re-signed him.

His last year in Detroit was pretty bad, but he had injured his medial collateral ligament in his right knee (had to look it up to remember the injury) during the lockout that year and never really got on track due to the injury.

He did well on a stacked team, I'm not sure if he would do as well on our roster as he did on a cup finals/ conference finals team. He probably would not have been bought out here but I have a feeling people would not be happy with him on our roster. 

Edited July 15, 2017 by kickazz