Tatar, Athanasiou, and XO's new deals

[krsmith17 7,191]

44 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

A top 2 defenseman comes right to the NHL, he doesn't spend any time in the A. We need to trade for one or draft him in the top 5. I am very reluctant to trade AA. So I'm not sure how we'll get it done. But you don't develop a top defenseman, you develop 2-7.

That's not true at all. Top 5-10 draft pick defensemen go straight to the NHL, but most defensemen drafted in the late first and later, usually spend at least some time in the AHL. 

Player - Draft Rank - Games in AHL

Keith - 54 - 154

Suter - 7 - 63

Seabrook - 14 - 3

Burns - 20 - 74

Weber - 49 - 46

Byfuglien - 245 - 124

McDonaugh - 12 - 38

Subban - 43 - 77

Doughty - 2 - 0

Pietrangelo - 4 - 1

Karlsson - 15 - 12

Carlson - 27 - 48

Josi - 38 - 74

Hedman - 2 - 0

Ekman-Larsson - 6 - 35

Fowler - 12 - 0

Faulk 37 - 43

Larsson - 4 - 67

Hamilton - 9 - 0

Rielly - 5 - 14

Jones - 4 - 0

Ekblad - 1 - 0

Hanifin - 5 - 0

Werenski - 8 - 7

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, TheDetroitRedWings said:

Now that Tatar is re-signed. Anyone know exactly how much cap space we have left? I'm just wondering if it's even a possibility to sign Thomas Vanek? From what I've heard, there isn't much cap space left. And we still have to sign AA. But I've heard three different cap space numbers. At this point it would be nice to know exactly how much money we're working with now. 

Last cap report I heard, is we have exactly 3 mill left after the Tatar signing. 

We are $3,021,212 over the salary cap now, but once Franzen ($3,954,545) is placed on LTIR we will have $933,333. Athanasiou will likely get between $1.5-2M, so another move will need to be made before the start of the season, whether that's LTIR, trade or waiving a player.

[kliq 3,755]

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

We are $3,021,212 over the salary cap now, but once Franzen ($3,954,545) is placed on LTIR we will have $933,333. Athanasiou will likely get between $1.5-2M, so another move will need to be made before the start of the season, whether that's LTIR, trade or waiving a player.

What is the cap relief if we waive E?

[SwedeLundin77 460]

36 minutes ago, kliq said:

What is the cap relief if we waive E?

Not sure, but, and this will piss me off, if they waive Sproul and he goes down, they'll have enough to afford Athanasiou at the lower end of the estimate (around 1.5 million), but they still won't have enough to bring up Bertuzzi.  They'd have to waive Witkowski and Sproul.  That would be very piss-poor since you just signed Witkowski and I don't know that either would clear waivers.

51 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

We are $3,021,212 over the salary cap now, but once Franzen ($3,954,545) is placed on LTIR we will have $933,333. Athanasiou will likely get between $1.5-2M, so another move will need to be made before the start of the season, whether that's LTIR, trade or waiving a player.

Unless Kronwall or Ericsson are on LTIR.  That then would buy them some time.

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

What is the cap relief if we waive E?

Maximum you can bury this year is $1.025M.

Likely a moot point though. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

They have to cut salary. I did a team with Tatar at 5 and AA at 2 with 22 players and they were over a mil too high even with Franzen on IR

Sent by my minions via telepathy

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

We are $3,021,212 over the salary cap now, but once Franzen ($3,954,545) is placed on LTIR we will have $933,333. Athanasiou will likely get between $1.5-2M, so another move will need to be made before the start of the season, whether that's LTIR, trade or waiving a player.

 

3 hours ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Unless Kronwall or Ericsson are on LTIR.  That then would buy them some time.

Exactly what I said. I'm hoping Holland knows and probably has known for quite some time that one of Kronwall or Ericsson is doubtful to start the season.

2 hours ago, Buppy said:

Maximum you can bury this year is $1.025M.

Likely a moot point though. 

Yeah, I was thinking it was a max of $975k, but that sounds about right. But like you said, it's a moot point. No way Holland waives Ericsson. No way he trades him either, but that's the route I'd go. Trade him to a team like New Jersey or Buffalo, along with Ottawa's 2018 2nd round pick in exchange for one of their mid round picks. Retain some salary as well if that's what it takes. But again, no way Holland does it...

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Holland is going to have to do something this year, unless Kronner Big E Glendog and Mule are all on LTIR at the start of the season in which case this will buy him some time. 

But something has to give, or in the real world he has to let go of 1 or 2 of his roster guys , and at that ones that carry a higher payroll. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

Holland is going to have to do something this year, unless Kronner Big E Glendog and Mule are all on LTIR at the start of the season in which case this will buy him some time. 

But something has to give, or in the real world he has to let go of 1 or 2 of his roster guys , and at that ones that carry a higher payroll. 

Why would all 3 need to go on LTIR? We only need to free up another $1-2M. If one of Kronwall or Ericsson start the season on LTIR, we'll be under the cap.

[Wingnut1989 165]

We def need trades still, im not satisfied with this off season and neither should the red wings organization be. 

[kliq 3,755]

Just now, Wingnut1989 said:

We def need trades still, im not satisfied with this off season and neither should the red wings organization be. 

The only thing I would like to see, is the Wings trading for a top pairing D-man, unfortunately I don't see that happening.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Since they went to arbitration with tatar, they can open the 48 hour buyout window 3 days after arbitration ends right? So technically Monday they could buy out Ericsson if I'm not mistaken. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

42 minutes ago, Euro_Twins said:

Since they went to arbitration with tatar, they can open the 48 hour buyout window 3 days after arbitration ends right? So technically Monday they could buy out Ericsson if I'm not mistaken. 

They could but won't, and shouldn't in my opinion. Trade him and retain salary. Better to have a million or so of his contract on the books for another three seasons, rather than six...

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

They could but won't, and shouldn't in my opinion. Trade him and retain salary. Better to have a million or so of his contract on the books for another three seasons, rather than six...

100% agree with you. So many people dismiss the long term effects of the buyout, just look at what the Weiss buyout is doing to us right now, a 2.6 mil caphit for nothing. A trade with salary retention is the smartest move if Holland wants to rid him self of E. With that being said, I dont think he does.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

7 hours ago, kliq said:

100% agree with you. So many people dismiss the long term effects of the buyout, just look at what the Weiss buyout is doing to us right now, a 2.6 mil caphit for nothing. A trade with salary retention is the smartest move if Holland wants to rid him self of E. With that being said, I dont think he does.

I don't disagree with this. But do you think Holland is capable of trading his contract?

[Dabura 12,207]

On 7/22/2017 at 9:12 AM, krsmith17 said:

This. Or Jake Bean, or Dante Fabbro, or Travis Sanheim... None of these guys would cost a ton, and all would instantly become our top defense prospect.

Realistically, the pool of potential targets is exceedingly small.

Nyquist's NTC recently kicked in and he's coming off a tough season in terms of goal-scoring. So even if he signed off on a trade, we'd probably be selling low. Tatar just signed a multi-year deal and has gone out of his way to say he's happy in Detroit. We all know the Wings have deemed Larkin absolutely untouchable. After the season Mantha just had, and with this new "Size Matters" mandate, I'm sure Mantha has been deemed only slightly less untouchable than Larkin.

So, in terms of forward trade chips, I think we're pretty much left with Athanasiou and Svechnikov. I believe Svechnikov's trade value is close to negligible and that AA's isn't anything to write home about. AA might be enough to get us a high-end D prospect, but our trade partner would have to have an abundance of high-end defensemen and a desperate need for skilled top-nine forwards.

Philly needs to improve their D group and I'm sure they see Travis Sanheim playing a big role in that effort. Nashville's looking to replace James Neal, so they'd probably want Nyquist or Tatar -- and, realistically, Holland isn't trading Nyquist or Tatar for Dante Fabbro. "What if AA has a monster season and establishes himself as a great top-six forward?" you ask? Well, then Holland deems him untouchable.

If it's gonna happen, I think it's gonna be Athanasiou(+) for Haydn Fleury. My impression is that the 'canes feel Jake Bean is the more valuable prospect, as his skill set makes him a potential Justin Faulk replacement. Brett Pesce is decent but unremarkable. I'm really high on Jaccob Slavin, but he just signed a big extension. Noah Hanifin is still very young and has enormous potential; they'd want Larkin/Mantha.

If not Fleury, possibly Rasmus Andersson or Oliver Kylington, as the Flames have solidified their top four/five. I like both players, but if we're giving up Athanasiou, I'd prefer Fleury; he has all the makings of a really good minute-munching two-way defenseman. The kind of player we were hoping Ericsson and DeKeyser would become.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

 

Exactly what I said. I'm hoping Holland knows and probably has known for quite some time that one of Kronwall or Ericsson is doubtful to start the season.

Yeah, I was thinking it was a max of $975k, but that sounds about right. But like you said, it's a moot point. No way Holland waives Ericsson. No way he trades him either, but that's the route I'd go. Trade him to a team like New Jersey or Buffalo, along with Ottawa's 2018 2nd round pick in exchange for one of their mid round picks. Retain some salary as well if that's what it takes. But again, no way Holland does it...

Holland is not that smart.

4 hours ago, Euro_Twins said:

I don't disagree with this. But do you think Holland is capable of trading his contract?

No.

If Holland trades AA it'll be for a 35 year old defenseman.

Holland can't make a move to save his life, if he does, he f***s it all up.

AA should already be as untouchable as Mantha. 

Edited July 23, 2017 by LeftWinger

[kliq 3,755]

5 hours ago, Euro_Twins said:

I don't disagree with this. But do you think Holland is capable of trading his contract?

Yes, but I dont think he wants to trade his contract. The narrative of "E needs to go" has been created by the fans, I dont think management feel this way.

[BinMucker94 302]

13 minutes ago, kliq said:

Yes, but I dont think he wants to trade his contract. The narrative of "E needs to go" has been created by the fans, I dont think management feel this way.

Well they should because they guys a traffic cone at best.

[kliq 3,755]

10 minutes ago, BinMucker94 said:

Well they should because they guys a traffic cone at best.

Oh I would love it, trust me.

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Holland is not that smart.

No.

If Holland trades AA it'll be for a 35 year old defenseman.

Holland can't make a move to save his life, if he does, he f***s it all up.

AA should already be as untouchable as Mantha. 

Bolded Part A: I get it, you are venting but we all know this is not happening

Bolded Part B: You are over-hyping the kid because he is flashy.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Holland has really got himself into a clusterf***, holy s***.

Why are we spending like this and still thinking we're a contender? Absolutely horrible offseason this has been and we're currently projecting to be $3M over the cap.

Sure Franzen will go to LTIR but then what? Now it looks like we'll either have to make a trade and retain some salary or buy someone out.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Holland still thinks that the team is a couple bounces away from winning the Cup.  Either that or STEALTH TANK

[kliq 3,755]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Did we get AA taken care of yet?

no

[kickazz 5,459]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Did we get AA taken care of yet?

Yea