2017 Opening Day Roster

[DickieDunn 2,571]

We don't know if Krazy Kenny is done yet or not, so it's hard to say.

Zetterberg, Larkin, AA, Tatar, Nyquist, Nielsen, Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Nielsen, Witkowski, Mantha, Sheahan are probably the forwards.  That leaves one spot either one the 4th line or as a reserve.  That probably means Svechnikov is in GR.  Wouldn't surprise me to see Bertuzzi down there too and a guy like Lorito or Street or some random cheap vet as the 14th forward.

Kronwall, Ericsson, Dekeyser, Green, Daley plus 2 of XO, Jensen and Sproul are the D.

 

So in other words, take the team that missed the playoffs, subtract Vanek, Nosek, and one of the younger D and add Witkowski and Daley.  Impressive job of treading water by HOlland.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 hours ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

So do we think any of the prospects or Senior Griffins have a chance to make the roster? Will there be someone who'll blow the coaching staff away in camp, will Lil Bert get that so called final spot or can Svech step up to the plate and make the cut. Personally I wouldn't have said that there's one place up for grabs like Kenny has. Too many so called safe spots for declining vets, which shouldn't be the case, as it's not like some of them are blowing the competition away. Maybe Kenny should have said there's openings for the best players and start waiving players that don't cut the mustard in camp. Tough you may feel but this is a business and Kennys job is to put a product on the ice that is appealing and entertaining and also competitive, will fans stomach in theory the same roster as last year or get behind a roster with a fresh approach abit more youth and yes, a touch of the unexpected with younger players. 

Khan says Wings expect one of Frk, Svech, Bertuzzi, or Street to make the roster

[krsmith17 7,191]

25 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Khan says Wings expect one of Frk, Svech, Bertuzzi, or Street to make the roster

I think Svechnikov needs another season in Grand Rapids, and I wouldn't hate if Bertuzzi started down there as first call up. Street already being 30, is a career AHLer, so no need to waste a spot on him. Frk may never become a full time NHLer, but I'd like him to at least get a shot on the 3rd line. My vote goes to Frk.

[Wingnut1989 165]

Looks like were banking on everyone to have a bounce back season, almost dressing the same lineup wont have much difference in results. We been on a steady decline for years i defiantly expected a few people to be moved around...however not surprised its kenny holland after all.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Wingnut1989

[SwedeLundin77 460]

The situation with Tatar is intriguing.  Sounds like he doesn't want to play here anymore or he is just trying to maximize his deal (if he doesn't make it to arbitration).  After what he said, I'd personally prefer Holland trade him for futures.   Of course, I'm not sure Holland has the balls to do so.  We really don't want to pay 5.5 million long-term to a Tatar that will probably max out at 55 points or so.  With all the bad contracts, that would just add to it and make it harder to rebuild on the fly.  We'd be investing 14-15 million on 3 wingers (Nyquist, Tatar, Abdelkader).  Pitt invests 15 million in 3 of their wingers, but those wingers are Kessell, Hagelin, and Hornqvist.  A lot different trio.  So I'd prefer Holland try and trade Tatar now, if possible.

Larkin-Zetterberg-Mantha
Svechnikov-Nielsen-Athanasiou
Nyquist-Sheahan-Abdelkader
Bertuzzi-Helm-Glendening
Witkowski

Ouellet-Green
Dekeyser-Daley
Ericsson-Jensen
Sproul

Howard
Mrazek

The defense is a mess...  I don't prefer Ouellet on the top pairing, nor do I prefer DeKeyser, but I also don't want to see Green on the second pairing.  It's just not a good situation.  I see Kronwall and/or Ericsson on LTIR.  I see a slight chance of Sulak making the roster if those two are injured, but would definitely like to see Sproul get a longer chance to show what he can do so we know.

[Richdg 267]

If a move is made-yes big if, for say a Dman, how bold should we be with our young talent at the F position? There are 3 old vets for the top 3 lines: Z, Neils. and Abby. There are also 3 speed guys in: Larkin, AA, and Helm. There are 3 big young F's with offensive ability: Mantha, Svechnikov, and Rasmussen. Checking line of Bert, Sheahan, and Witkowski/Glendening.

That would be a big gamble but also might be the most talented F group we could ice. That of course would free up Tatar and Nyquist + some young D to get another top Dman.

You could run F lines of:

Z-Larkin-Mantha

Helm-Neilsson-Svechnikov

Abby-AA-Rasmussen

Flip Helm and Abby if you want.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

16 minutes ago, Richdg said:

If a move is made-yes big if, for say a Dman, how bold should we be with our young talent at the F position? There are 3 old vets for the top 3 lines: Z, Neils. and Abby. There are also 3 speed guys in: Larkin, AA, and Helm. There are 3 big young F's with offensive ability: Mantha, Svechnikov, and Rasmussen. Checking line of Bert, Sheahan, and Witkowski/Glendening.

That would be a big gamble but also might be the most talented F group we could ice. That of course would free up Tatar and Nyquist + some young D to get another top Dman.

You could run F lines of:

Z-Larkin-Mantha

Helm-Neilsson-Svechnikov

Abby-AA-Rasmussen

Flip Helm and Abby if you want.

I don't know if Rasmussen can make the jump this season, but he sure does look good in camp so far (not at 100%).  Also, he's a center so I'm pretty sure they'd put him there due to his size alone.  I also hope they keep Larkin as a winger, he's much more effective in that position.  I think Zetterberg proved last season that he still has gas in the tank in the middle.  It would also drive me nuts to have Helm on the 2nd line.  Dude just doesn't have the hands and I believe would be wasted there.  I don't see Nyquist being moved and I believe Holland should hang on to him in hopes that he bounces back and ups his trade value.  If your lineup is to stand, though, I see it more like this:

Larking-Z-Mantha (perhaps Larkin takes some reps at C to give Z a break.
Svechnkov-Nielsen-AA
Helm-Rasmussen-Abdelkader

If Rasmussen is, in fact, the real deal, flip him and Nielsen.

Edited July 9, 2017 by SwedeLundin77

[jaymac17 10]

Kroner and Johan on ltir...my hunch is that kronwall's knee is worse than hoped possibly leading them to crowding the d room and using him for cap space to sign 21, 72

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

[Jacksoni 418]

1 hour ago, jaymac17 said:

Kroner and Johan on ltir...my hunch is that kronwall's knee is worse than hoped possibly leading them to crowding the d room and using him for cap space to sign 21, 72

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk
 

Nice picture, ergo nice software. A few questions though:

Green on the second pairing?

Jensen on the first pairing? That immediately sends you to la-la land. It is not going to happen.

--

Speculations, justified:

Larkin will center. Either 2nd or 3rd.

Helm will be on wing. Most likely on the 4th line.

Our first defensive pairing will be your 2nd, DeKeyser - Green.

edit addon: Abdelkader will be top 6 if healthy.

--

Speculations, less justified:

Glendenning will be a starter on the 4th line.

Athanasiou will replace Glen on the bench, for rushes.

 

Besides all that, looks decent, given what we have to play with of course. Still going to be all about misery.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Jacksoni

[SwedeLundin77 460]

I feel like Larkin will be best suited as a winger in the NHL.

12 minutes ago, Jacksoni said:

Nice picture, ergo nice software. A few questions though:

Green on the second pairing?

Jensen on the first pairing? That immediately sends you to la-la land. It is not going to happen.

--

Speculations, justified:

Larkin will center. Either 2nd or 3rd.

Helm will be on wing. Most likely on the 4th line.

Our first defensive pairing will be your 2nd, DeKeyser - Green.

--

Speculations, less justified:

Glendenning will be a starter on the 4th line.

Athanasiou will replace Glen on the bench, for rushes.

 

Besides all that, looks decent, given what we have to play with of course. Still going to be all about misery.

Wait, are you saying that Athanasiou will be on the 4th line?

[Jacksoni 418]

1 minute ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

I feel like Larkin will be best suited as a winger in the NHL.

Wait, are you saying that Athanasiou will be on the 4th line?

No. I am saying he could be having the same role he had last season, which was a wildcard on the bench. If he shows growth preseason he will crack top 9. He will not play on the 4th line. Most folks here knows that is not his forté.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

Just now, Jacksoni said:

No. I am saying he could be having the same role he had last season, which was a wildcard on the bench. If he shows growth preseason he will crack top 9. He will not play on the 4th line. Most folks here knows that is not his forté.

Okay, I was hoping that wasn't what you meant.  I foresee him on a line with Nielsen.  They had good chemistry last season (especially with Vanek on that line, too.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

On Sun Jul 02 2017 at 10:44 PM, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, he won't be wearing number 6, although I think he should be able to. My guess is something with the number 6 in it. Maybe 26?...

Nah, 66....Vanek will have 26.

 

I'm out on Tatar...trade his rights and give Vanek a contract. 

[Dabura 12,206]

8 hours ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

The situation with Tatar is intriguing.  Sounds like he doesn't want to play here anymore or he is just trying to maximize his deal (if he doesn't make it to arbitration).

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm out on Tatar...trade his rights and give Vanek a contract. 

Did I miss something??

Tatar filed for player-elected salary arbitration, but that wasn't unexpected.

I'm going to "unironically" quote HSJ:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/07/05/red-wings-tomas-tatar-arbitration/452176001/

Quote

It’s not an unusual practice for restricted free agents to do so, as it affords them a measure of rights, and his agent and the Wings can continue to negotiate while awaiting a hearing.

This likely will led to a quicker resolution, as the Wings will want to avoid arbitration because they would be locked into a one-year deal as Tatar is eligible to become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

Tatar is seeking a multi-year deal worth around $5 million annually.

Tatar, 26, has reached 20 goals in each of his last three seasons (and reached 19 in 2013-14). The 75 goals he has scored from 2014-15 through 2016-17 ranks 31st overall in the NHL.

Did everyone catch that titillating truth bomb there at the end?

Quote

The 75 goals he has scored from 2014-15 through 2016-17 ranks 31st overall in the NHL.

Tatar is arguably our best player not named Zetterberg. I rate him as a legitimate first-line winger.

That he's reportedly seeking $5(.5)M x 5 years is encouraging, as he would be justified in asking for more and he would surely get more on the open market. So, if anything, it appears he's (not un)happy in Detroit and is even willing to take a bit of a hometown discount to stay. ... What a bum!

Edited July 10, 2017 by Dabura

[LeftWinger 4,934]

It's not the production, I'm good with that, it's this attitude problem saying that if they award him 1 yr. It'll be his last season in Detroit. I don't want that here. I'm a big Tatar and Mrazek fan, but if they are cancers in the room, they need to go.

[BadgerBob 297]

8 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

It's not the production, I'm good with that, it's this attitude problem saying that if they award him 1 yr. It'll be his last season in Detroit. I don't want that here. I'm a big Tatar and Mrazek fan, but if they are cancers in the room, they need to go.

I don't see the problem. He wants a commitment from the team. If they give him a one year that doesn't put a player at ease and let him know he's valued. He can go somewhere else, get more, and probably for max term. I consider that a cancer in the locker room. And if that's true and he gets a one year deal, then deal him at the deadline for a decent return. 

[Dabura 12,206]

2 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

It's not the production, I'm good with that, it's this attitude problem saying that if they award him 1 yr. It'll be his last season in Detroit. I don't want that here. I'm a big Tatar and Mrazek fan, but if they are cancers in the room, they need to go.

I assume you're referring to this:

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/tatar-hopes-to-avoid-arbitration

Quote

"Arbitration is the last option, I have to sign off, it's just a mandatory contract. Unless I agree with Detroit, I'll go to the court, where they'll give me a year's contract. That would probably be my last season in Detroit. We'll see in a few days or weeks before it all comes together," said Tatar.

Firstly, it's a translation. I don't speak the language, but I assume a degree of nuance has been lost in translation.

Secondly, players tend to be more candid when talking with non-North American press in the offseason. Seems like we get this kind of thing every summer -- [Red Wing] says something in a foreign-language interview, it's interpreted by a loud minority of fans as a Gutless Declaration of Gutless Discontent (Gutless! Absolutely Gutless! Gutless! Gutless! Gutless!), and...nothing comes of it. Because it wasn't a big deal in the first place.

Thirdly, he's not wrong: if he gets a one-year deal, it would probably be his last season in Detroit, because a one-year deal is the final outcome of an arbitration process, unless the organization and player compromise at some point during the process. I don't think it'll get to that point. I don't think it even gets to arbitration.

Fourthly, like I said in my previous post: ~$5M x 5 years is a very reasonable ask. If the two sides are butting heads, it's probably because Holland wants/needs just a little, *tiny bit* more wiggle room, because we're that hard up against the cap and Tatar is technically still an RFA and Larkin and Mantha are due for big raises soon.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

Well, right now I turn my attention to AA and Tatar can have what's left. Because we have roughly $6.2M left after Franzen and AA is more important to the future of this club. I got a feeling it's going to coat us more than $1.2M for him, so that leaves less than $5M for Tatar. If Tatar gets the $5.5M or $6M he wants, then what? If I'm making a choice, I choose AA.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

AA isn't getting that much

Take out the trash and fire Holland and Blash!!!!!!

[SwedeLundin77 460]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

It's not the production, I'm good with that, it's this attitude problem saying that if they award him 1 yr. It'll be his last season in Detroit. I don't want that here. I'm a big Tatar and Mrazek fan, but if they are cancers in the room, they need to go.

Well and he can score, sure... but he scored 25 goals and didn't break 50 points.  He's more one-dimensional.... We can trade him for futures and develop Svech to take over his position.

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

AA isn't getting that much

Take out the trash and fire Holland and Blash!!!!!!
 

AA will get around 1.75-2.25 million.  Similar to Sheahan's last deal.  Count on it.  You keep it up with that tagline.  I agree with you, but it's just beyond annoying since it's in several different topics.

[Dabura 12,206]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Well, right now I turn my attention to AA and Tatar can have what's left. Because we have roughly $6.2M left after Franzen and AA is more important to the future of this club. I got a feeling it's going to coat us more than $1.2M for him, so that leaves less than $5M for Tatar. If Tatar gets the $5.5M or $6M he wants, then what? If I'm making a choice, I choose AA.

Holland will make it work. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. The situation is not "Holland was under the impression that Tatar and Athanasiou would sign for peanuts, so he went out and signed Daley and Witkowski, but then Tatar and Athanasiou didn't want to sign for peanuts, and now we're probably going to lose Tatar or Athanasiou."

2 hours ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Well and he can score, sure... but he scored 25 goals and didn't break 50 points.  He's more one-dimensional.... We can trade him for futures and develop Svech to take over his position.

I repeat: Tatar is arguably our best player not named Zetterberg.

He scores goals. The hardest thing to do in the NHL is score goals. Again: over the past three seasons, only 30 players have scored more goals.

He's shown he's good for at 20 goals and 45 points. The same can't be said of the vast majority of our forwards.
He's shown he's a very good possession driver. The same can't be said of the vast majority of our forwards.
He's shown that he can do what he does in a demanding, non-sheltered role. The same can't be said of the vast majority of our forwards.

Tatar and Nyquist are our top wingers right now. They've established themselves as respectable first-liners. With a better power play and a better supporting cast (especially on the back end), they're probably 55-60 point players. The jury is out on Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou. Svechnikov is totally unproven at the NHL level. There's no guarantee that any of these players will become a perennial all-star.

Trading Tatar for futures so we can "develop [insert younger forward]" makes no sense. We can keep Tatar and still develop younger players. Remove Tatar and we're short a top-line winger (and a mentor for younger players), and it becomes that much harder for our team to manufacture offense and score goals and win games. Tatar routinely goes up against top players and holds his own. Do we want to throw a kid into that role? Even if he can handle it, is that what's best for the kid? Is it what's best for the team? Does it push the rebuild forward in a meaningful way, or is it just change for the sake of change?

Tatar and Nyquist are not problematic. Our most fundamental problem is that we lack top-tier talent. That's not on Tatar and Nyquist; they are what they are, and what they are is very good.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Dabura

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

...

Tatar and Nyquist are not problematic. Our most fundamental problem is that we lack top-tier talent. That's not on Tatar and Nyquist; they are what they are, and what they are is very good.

I agree. We shouldn't be looking to trade Tatar and / or Nyquist for draft picks and / or prospects, unless that prospect is a high end defensive prospect, similar to the Drouin for Sergachev trade. Not saying that Nyquist / Tatar equal Drouin, but I think either in a package could get a similar type player. There are teams out there loaded with defensive prospects, and lacking offense. I'm sure there could be a deal made, but for whatever reason, Holland is unwilling / unable to pull off such a trade. We will continue to build through the draft and free agency. Who needs trades anyway? We like our team...

[Jacksoni 418]

Tatar can score, no doubt. But he is small and has a bad shoulder which makes me uncertain as to what position to take against him. I would be weary signing him to a long term deal. Need proof about that shoulder first.

I'm fine with a costly 1-year deal. If he performs this season, he'll get paid, either by us or any entity bidding over us. It's not a win-win but given the situation that's the stance I would take. I have had my share of injuries; if his injury is chronic he is a 3rd pairing for a few years at best I think.

[Dabura 12,206]

5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree. We shouldn't be looking to trade Tatar and / or Nyquist for draft picks and / or prospects, unless that prospect is a high end defensive prospect, similar to the Drouin for Sergachev trade. Not saying that Nyquist / Tatar equal Drouin, but I think either in a package could get a similar type player. There are teams out there loaded with defensive prospects, and lacking offense. I'm sure there could be a deal made, but for whatever reason, Holland is unwilling / unable to pull off such a trade. We will continue to build through the draft and free agency. Who needs trades anyway? We like our team...

Hards are trade.

[Dabura 12,206]

(Now watch me be completely wrong. Tatar gets a one-year deal and we trade him for a stud defenseman at the deadline.)