Mrazek "Maturing, could bounce back like Howard"

[Jacksoni 418]

I have expressed concerns about Dylan Larkin just a few days earlier and had a discussion around my locale with fellow skaters, most of them not Red Wing devotees but with many years of hockey veterancy. After quite a bit of discussion we came to some sort of consensus. Mind you, it is hard to project a NHL star but we tried to extrapolate what we saw from good young players growing in from our ranks. Thoughts played out were.

1. Got beef. Larkin is fast and has the vision but rightfully lacks confidence to take full strides to go his game in the offensive zone, except when staying on the outside or rounding the goal. Let the kid do major chins, deadlifts, benchpresses and shoulder presses for a season or two and the rest wlll follow. Look at McKinnon as a role model.

2. See point 1. Except some minor ramblings about Larkin being a *****.

Probably not relevant but such is life.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

31 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

21 isn't a grown man? My point is that forwards generally have a smoother transition than goalies. It usually takes goaltenders (and defensemen) a little longer to figure things out at the NHL level. Forwards, for the most part, don't have to go through such a learning curve coming from the American League.

The bolded, I completely agree with.

Do you remember when you were 21? Do you know any 21 year olds? I, and most people I know, were still pretty big immature dumbys till about 23. Larkin can't even legally drink in Michigan yet. If Mrazek was 21 and had cocky attitude problems I'd be a little more understanding. But at 25 you're supposed to have your mind and your life right. There's a bigggg difference between a 20/21 year old and a 25 year old in my mind.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 There's a bigggg difference between a 20/21 year old and a 25 year old in my mind.

I agree. Huge difference maturity wise. And between 25 and 28/29 even moreso

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Do you remember when you were 21? Do you know any 21 year olds? I, and most people I know, were still pretty big immature dumbys till about 23. Larkin can't even legally drink in Michigan yet. If Mrazek was 21 and had cocky attitude problems I'd be a little more understanding. But at 25 you're supposed to have your mind and your life right. There's a bigggg difference between a 20/21 year old and a 25 year old in my mind.

I do remember when I was 21. I know 21 year olds now that are more mature than most of my 30+ year old friends. It's not hard to imagine a 21 year old Larkin (who seems to be very mature for his age) could possibly be more mature than a 25 year old Mrazek (who doesn't seem to have it all figured out yet). Anyway, we're straying way off track here. I think Mrazek can bounce back, just like everyone thinks Larkin can bounce back, regardless of age or maturity level.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

31 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I do remember when I was 21. I know 21 year olds now that are more mature than most of my 30+ year old friends. It's not hard to imagine a 21 year old Larkin (who seems to be very mature for his age) could possibly be more mature than a 25 year old Mrazek (who doesn't seem to have it all figured out yet). Anyway, we're straying way off track here. I think Mrazek can bounce back, just like everyone thinks Larkin can bounce back, regardless of age or maturity level.

Those must be some boring 21 year olds

I'll believe it when I see it!

Edited July 25, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[kliq 3,755]

I'll be honest, I have a lot of 21 year olds that work for me, and I see a HUGE gap in maturity between those in their early 20's and those in their late 20's its not even close. I would even argue that those in their 20's right now, are closer in maturity level of a 16 year olds when comparing to my generation (I am 35).

This is not even a dig on this generation, it's just a reality of the way culture is now a days. Of course there are many outliers, but the average 21 year old is not as mature as you may think.

[kickazz 5,459]

5 minutes ago, kliq said:

I'll be honest, I have a lot of 21 year olds that work for me, and I see a HUGE gap in maturity between those in their early 20's and those in their late 20's its not even close. I would even argue that those in their 20's right now, are closer in maturity level of a 16 year olds when comparing to my generation (I am 35).

This is not even a dig on this generation, it's just a reality of the way culture is now a days. Of course there are many outliers, but the average 21 year old is not as mature as you may think.

At 21 I was stripping in a motel 6 in front of my GF at the time. Now, I'm thinking about the financial burden of my godam student loans and considering stripping to pay the loans off.  

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

13 minutes ago, kickazz said:

At 21 I was stripping in a motel 6 in front of my GF at the time. Now, I'm thinking about the financial burden of my godam student loans and considering stripping to pay the loans off.  

Priorities age 21: Babes / nintendo / killing handles of bacardi

Priorities now: Modern appliances / 401K / going to bed before 10 pm

Want to be 21 again, help

Edited July 25, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[kickazz 5,459]

11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Priorities age 21: Babes / nintendo / killing handles of bacardi

Priorities now: Modern appliances / 401K / going to bed before 10 pm

Want to be 21 again, help

Do you think Larkin knows what a 401K is. Is the NHLPA a good father figure for these kids?

Edited July 25, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

33 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Do you think Larkin knows what a 401K is. Is the NHLPA a good father figure for these kids?

D-Boss dont need a 401K when the snip show is selling out the dungeon 

Edited July 25, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

I'll be honest, I have a lot of 21 year olds that work for me, and I see a HUGE gap in maturity between those in their early 20's and those in their late 20's its not even close. I would even argue that those in their 20's right now, are closer in maturity level of a 16 year olds when comparing to my generation (I am 35).

This is not even a dig on this generation, it's just a reality of the way culture is now a days. Of course there are many outliers, but the average 21 year old is not as mature as you may think.

I don't think anyone would suggest that there isn't a huge maturity gap between those age groups. My only point was that it's very common to come across a 21 year old that is much more mature than a 25 year old. And in this case, I think it's very likely that Larkin is just as or more mature than Mrazek. I also think they're in similar stages of their development, despite Larkin being 4 years younger. Anyway, I think everyone hopes that both have huge bounce back years, along with the rest of the team.

[kickazz 5,459]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think anyone would suggest that there isn't a huge maturity gap between those age groups. My only point was that it's very common to come across a 21 year old that is much more mature than a 25 year old. And in this case, I think it's very likely that Larkin is just as or more mature than Mrazek. I also think they're in similar stages of their development, despite Larkin being 4 years younger. Anyway, I think everyone hopes that both have huge bounce back years, along with the rest of the team.

I don't think it's very common. That wouldn't make any biological sense. We don't regress in developmental age and maturity as human beings until we're elderly. 

The norm is to mature in a biological timeline, both physically and mentally. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I don't think it's very common. That wouldn't make any biological sense. We don't regress in developmental age and maturity as human beings until we're elderly. 

The norm is to mature in a biological timeline, both physically and mentally. 

This makes no sense. I'm not saying Larkin is more mature now than he will be at age 25, or that Mrazek was more mature when he was 21 than he is now, or that any person regresses in maturity as they age... However, people do mature at different rates, just as people grow at different rates, hit puberty at different ages, etc. Everyone is different, and if you can't see the possibility that Larkin could be more mature than Mrazek or any other 25 year old, just because he's a few years younger, I don't know what's to say...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Tendys got nothing on D-Boss's maturity 

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

This makes no sense. I'm not saying Larkin is more mature now than he will be at age 25, or that Mrazek was more mature when he was 21 than he is now, or that any person regresses in maturity as they age... However, people do mature at different rates, just as people grow at different rates, hit puberty at different ages, etc. Everyone is different, and if you can't see the possibility that Larkin could be more mature than Mrazek or any other 25 year old, just because he's a few years younger, I don't know what's to say...

Sure he could be, but I doubt its "very common". It's probably  an exception to the rule. To see a 21 year old more mature than a 25 year old usually garners praise in society because it's a rarity. Alternatively Larkin could just be tracking just fine for his age and Mrazek is the immature one for his age group. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by kickazz

[gcom007 1,465]

On 7/22/2017 at 4:02 AM, kliq said:

Your first paragraph is directed at me as if I said I wanted to go with Howard over Mrazek.....where did I say that? I have gone on record many times saying I want to trade Howard and go with Mrazek, but not because Howard sucks, but rather he is a middle aged goaltender with an injury history. If we could have Howard as a backup at a 2mi caphit, I would love to have him here. With that being said, I don't think Mrazek is a sure thing by any stretch.

My comments to you were:

"Jimmy became a full time starting goaltender at 25, that is not that late for a goalie.

Can you provide something to back these claims up?  Based on your "whiny" comment, I am prompted to believe this is an emotional based post opposed to a factual post."

If you interpreted that as me saying get rid of Mrazek and stick with Howard then that's on you.

Totally fair enough. I wasn't referring directly back to everything but was kinda replying generally to a sentiment that's been expressed by many and kinda latched on to your post. I see what you were saying more clearly and I apologize if I came off as an ass. I mean, we're all here talking about hockey and cheering for the Wings as far as I'm concerned, everything I say is should be taken as spirited but good-natured banter at worst.

[BadgerBob 297]

5 hours ago, kickazz said:

Now, I'm thinking about the financial burden of my godam student loans

This hits home so hard it hurts. Boy would I like a redo on that.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

20 minutes ago, BadgerBob said:

This hits home so hard it hurts. Boy would I like a redo on that.

Amen

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 hours ago, kickazz said:

Sure he could be, but I doubt its "very common". It's probably  an exception to the rule. To see a 21 year old more mature than a 25 year old usually garners praise in society because it's a rarity. Alternatively Larkin could just be tracking just fine for his age and Mrazek is the immature one for his age group. 

I think it's a lot more common than you think. You're acting as if I'm saying it's more common. I'm not. I'm saying that there are many situations where a 21 year old is more mature than a 25 year old. I've witnessed it in many cases, and I'm sure you have as well. But anything to argue about right?

Anyway, this is getting way off the point. Larkin and Mrazek are at similar stages of their development, but Mrazek is being chastised by many, while Larkin is being given the benefit of the doubt. I hope / think both will turn things around, and neither is more or less likely to hit their ceiling than the other. Both are good, young players, that are coming off rough seasons. Let's hope they turn things around in a big way.

[marcaractac 3,963]

24 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think it's a lot more common than you think. You're acting as if I'm saying it's more common. I'm not. I'm saying that there are many situations where a 21 year old is more mature than a 25 year old. I've witnessed it in many cases, and I'm sure you have as well. But anything to argue about right?

Anyway, this is getting way off the point. Larkin and Mrazek are at similar stages of their development, but Mrazek is being chastised by many, while Larkin is being given the benefit of the doubt. I hope / think both will turn things around, and neither is more or less likely to hit their ceiling than the other. Both are good, young players, that are coming off rough seasons. Let's hope they turn things around in a big way.

I also think it's important to look at Howard's #'s in his second season as a starter. Not far off of Mrazek's at all, and we had a much better team back then. Howard's weaknesses have been staying healthy and simply not stepping it up in the playoffs. Mrazek has shown he can handle playoff pressure already. If he can avoid the injury luck Howard has had, I see no reason he can't rebound and become a top goalie in this league. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I think it's a lot more common than you think. You're acting as if I'm saying it's more common. I'm not. I'm saying that there are many situations where a 21 year old is more mature than a 25 year old. I've witnessed it in many cases, and I'm sure you have as well. But anything to argue about right?

Anyway, this is getting way off the point. Larkin and Mrazek are at similar stages of their development, but Mrazek is being chastised by many, while Larkin is being given the benefit of the doubt. I hope / think both will turn things around, and neither is more or less likely to hit their ceiling than the other. Both are good, young players, that are coming off rough seasons. Let's hope they turn things around in a big way.

Just cause Mrazek is getting s*** on doesnt mean anyone is giving Larkin a pass, nice try though. Mrazek is the one being dragged through the mud by the team, not Larkin, which is why he is the focale point of attention. If the team was raising hell about Larkin too he'd be highly chastised as well. Larks has 4 more years before he's even Mrazeks current age and he is on ELC. Mrazek is a 4 million dollar player. It's a much bigger problem when a 4 million dollar player flops than when an ELC player does.

2 hours ago, marcaractac said:

I also think it's important to look at Howard's #'s in his second season as a starter. Not far off of Mrazek's at all, and we had a much better team back then. Howard's weaknesses have been staying healthy and simply not stepping it up in the playoffs. Mrazek has shown he can handle playoff pressure already. If he can avoid the injury luck Howard has had, I see no reason he can't rebound and become a top goalie in this league. 

Except this was Mrazeks third season, not second.

Edited July 26, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

34 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Just cause Mrazek is getting s*** on doesnt mean anyone is giving Larkin a pass, nice try though. Mrazek is the one being dragged through the mud by the team, not Larkin, which is why he is the focale point of attention. If the team was raising hell about Larkin too he'd be highly chastised as well. Larks has 4 more years before he's even Mrazeks current age and he is on ELC. Mrazek is a 4 million dollar player. It's a much bigger problem when a 4 million dollar player flops than when an ELC player does.

A lot of people are giving Larkin a pass (myself included), and rightfully so. He's still very early in his development, and struggles are to be expected. Mrazek struggled more than I think anyone could have expected, but as with Larkin, he is still very early in his development and should be given the benefit of the doubt, based on what he's shown he is capable of in the past. He may never put up Vezina like numbers again, but I doubt he'll ever have a season as terrible as this past year. I do agree with your point about him being past his ELC and being paid big bucks though. He needs to prove he's worth the money, and maybe because he didn't this past season, is a big reason fans turned on him so quickly...

[kliq 3,755]

15 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think anyone would suggest that there isn't a huge maturity gap between those age groups. My only point was that it's very common to come across a 21 year old that is much more mature than a 25 year old. And in this case, I think it's very likely that Larkin is just as or more mature than Mrazek. I also think they're in similar stages of their development, despite Larkin being 4 years younger. Anyway, I think everyone hopes that both have huge bounce back years, along with the rest of the team.

This I agree with, there are always outliers and Larkin from everything I have read of him appears to be one.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

A lot of people are giving Larkin a pass (myself included), and rightfully so. He's still very early in his development, and struggles are to be expected. Mrazek struggled more than I think anyone could have expected, but as with Larkin, he is still very early in his development and should be given the benefit of the doubt, based on what he's shown he is capable of in the past. He may never put up Vezina like numbers again, but I doubt he'll ever have a season as terrible as this past year. I do agree with your point about him being past his ELC and being paid big bucks though. He needs to prove he's worth the money, and maybe because he didn't this past season, is a big reason fans turned on him so quickly...

When you play terrible fans turn on you. What's telling is the organization turned on him as well.

When you play hardball in negotiations holding out for more money, and subsequently get rewarded with a big 4 million dollar cotract, then play terribly... that doesnt earn benefit of the doubt. Had Larkin just signed a comparable contract last year and put up this seasons numbers he would be up in flames too.

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Just cause Mrazek is getting s*** on doesnt mean anyone is giving Larkin a pass, nice try though. Mrazek is the one being dragged through the mud by the team, not Larkin, which is why he is the focale point of attention. If the team was raising hell about Larkin too he'd be highly chastised as well. Larks has 4 more years before he's even Mrazeks current age and he is on ELC. Mrazek is a 4 million dollar player. It's a much bigger problem when a 4 million dollar player flops than when an ELC player does.

Except this was Mrazeks third season, not second.

Second season with a starters workload, however.