AtlantaHotWings 987 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 Survey of fans and how they view their management....and guessing Dickie and Leftwinger voted a few times! http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/07/red_wings_fans_have_lost_confi.html#incart_river_index Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,958 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 Honestly, I have not even voted at all. Good to see though. Holland just needs to fire sale the team and show he wants to put them in the right direction. Enough "loyalty" it's getting you nowhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 WINGS: It's because we missed the playoffs, isn't it. FANS: NO. NO IT IS NOT. WINGS: You can't expect an organization to make the playoffs every season. There's no hockey st-- FANS: DON'T YOU SAY IT. DON'T YOU DARE SAY IT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 Holland doesn't seem to get it. Either he really believes the BS he spews, or he thinks that it's what fans want to hear. Either way he's off his rocker. Most knowledgeable fans I've talked with understand that there's a difference between the recent Wings teams and the teams that made runs as low seeds, and that signing a player approaching 30 (or is past it) or a grinder to a long term deal is a bad move. And that's exactly how Kenny has been doing business lately. 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingnut1989 165 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 Steady decline and questionable management decisions how could us fans have confidence Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 Surveys are filled out by people with too much time on their hands or someone with an ax to grind 1 1 Hockeymom1960 and NerveDamage reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeymom1960 5,107 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 34 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Surveys are filled out by people with too much time on their hands or someone with an ax to grind Did you read the article where Detroit and Vancouver had the most fans participate than any other team? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Hockeymom1960 said: Did you read the article where Detroit and Vancouver had the most fans participate than any other team? No, but makes sense. The two most upset fan-bases right now. I travel to Vancouver quite a bit for work, and about mid-season the narrative I got from fans was "At least we have Tryamkin". I had a hearty LOL when it was announced that he's returning to the KHL. Hopefully we don't get that bad. 1 Hockeymom1960 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 On 7/31/2017 at 1:35 PM, Hockeymom1960 said: Did you read the article where Detroit and Vancouver had the most fans participate than any other team? What does that have to do with what he said? If anything it makes it more likely to be negative, since people are always more vocal with complaints than praise. That people think Holland is such garbage for being unable to again rebuild on the fly without missing a step, while excessively praising Poile...who in two decades as GM in Nashville has won exactly s***...says everything anyone would ever need to know about those people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 9 hours ago, LeftWinger said: Honestly, I have not even voted at all. Good to see though. Holland just needs to fire sale the team and show he wants to put them in the right direction. Enough "loyalty" it's getting you nowhere. Can we please stop it with the BS "loyalty" is a bad thing narrative? Loyalty is not our issue, it is a strength, players do appreciate this and do take this into consideration when deciding where to sign. Holland did not sign Abby to a 7 year deal because he is too "loyal". The only player I can think of that was signed purely due to "loyalty" is probably Cleary a few years back. Holland signed Abby because he legitimately believes he is worth that contract or because he was scared to lose him (same for Helm, Glendenning etc.). Was the Nieslen contract due to "loyalty"? Of course not, but its still just as bad if not worse then the one's above. If you want to criticize Holland for some of the contacts he has given out, "loyalty" is not the problem, if anything the problem is his inability to let vets walk and rely on the kids. For the most part, this has always been Holland's mentality, the difference now is that our vets can't carry us like they used to and the cap. If pre-cap Holland overpaid a vet, it really didn't matter as he could just sign a better player later, or make a trade and increase payroll (ie. Lang). Though I do believe that Larkin making this team 2 years ago does represent a changing of the thought process here. Hopefully it continues, because relying on vets when you are a team near the bottom just doesn't make sense, its not 2002 anymore. 1 LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,958 Report post Posted August 1, 2017 Just have to look at Conor Sheary's new contract. 3 yrs, $3M per. Playing with a star, his numbers are good. But now let's look at Abby, Helm and Tatar. That's giving away too much money and it's Holland being loyal to them. If they were being paid what they're worth around the league, they'd be making much less. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, LeftWinger said: Just have to look at Conor Sheary's new contract. 3 yrs, $3M per. Playing with a star, his numbers are good. But now let's look at Abby, Helm and Tatar. That's giving away too much money and it's Holland being loyal to them. If they were being paid what they're worth around the league, they'd be making much less. Sorry but I call BS. Holland didnt give Tatar what he did out of "loyalty". They went to arbitration and gave him that because if he didnt Tatar was going to walk after a year. Tatar could have easily gotten paid the same from another team. Abby and Helm were UFA's, Sheary is an RFA. It is common knowledge that UFA's are paid more then RFA's with all things being equal. Plus, players that play for contenders are more likely to take a discount. Helm was paid what he was because the market dictated it, and Holland didnt want to lose him. Abby was paid what he was because Holland thought he was worth it, and again didnt want to lose him. Given Abby's production at the time, the cap is not horrible, the term is. The term was just a bad part of that contract. Blaming "loyalty" for bad contracts is just BS, as like I said earlier just look at the Nielsen contract, its just as bad if not worse then Abby's. No loyalty there, just bad cap management. Edited August 1, 2017 by kliq 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeymom1960 5,107 Report post Posted August 1, 2017 5 hours ago, Buppy said: What does that have to do with what he said? If anything it makes it more likely to be negative, since people are always more vocal with complaints than praise. That people think Holland is such garbage for being unable to again rebuild on the fly without missing a step, while simultaneously jerking themselves blistered over Poile...who in two decades as GM in Nashville has won exactly s***...says everything anyone would ever need to know about those people. Did you read the article? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blgillett 48 Report post Posted August 1, 2017 Take it easy people it takes time to rebuild to be honest we are so used to winning we have know clue how long it takes to rebuild a team and we just truely just started to rebuild last year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted August 1, 2017 14 hours ago, Hockeymom1960 said: Did you read the article? Did you? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, or what part of the article/survey you think contradicts what CRL had said, but nothing about it suggests that many of the whole 1300-ish respondents are particularly knowledgeable or objective. I'd bet most people just wanted to ***** about their own team, don't even know anything about most other teams, and based ratings straight off the standings/playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Learn2LuvIt 245 Report post Posted August 1, 2017 19 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said: Ken Holland is being exposed. But I dont feel at all bad for him. He had the chance to walk out a hero 3 years ago with almost no one realizing he took most of the credit that was due to Devellano, Andersson, Bowman, and Nill. Now everyone realizes he was in the right chair at the right time, and that's it. Easy. It may becoming apparent that Kenny had a great staff/support system around him that contributed to a lot of success as a front office and team. However, to be fair, Kenny has done some great things for this organization. The "loyalty" card is being overplayed a bit....a lot of the "loyalty" was dictated by his boss...Mr. Ilitch. A good number of our core players who have retired or moved on have talked about their personal, close relationship with Mr. and Mrs. Ilitch. So, yes Kenny has done a below average job the past five years or so, but to make a statement that he's always been incompetent is absurd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mackel 681 Report post Posted August 3, 2017 https://www.thescore.com/news/1337009 This is a good if not depressing read. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xault 272 Report post Posted August 4, 2017 22 hours ago, mackel said: https://www.thescore.com/news/1337009 This is a good if not depressing read. I was eating Ben & Jerry’s Stephen Colbert’s Americone Dream Ice Cream while reading this... still felt sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Pred 48 337 Report post Posted August 4, 2017 The guy is only confirming what any knowledgeable hockey fan already knows . Kenny has got to try and trade some high end contracts off the roster , but he's in a sticky situ , he needs to put out a competitive team in the new arena but he knows he has to cut the cloth as well. Does he try and trade guys like Green, Nyqvist etc al and promote from within or does he waive some talent and hope there are no takers . Either way this current roster will struggle to get into the post season which ever way he decides so he may as well shed some salary some how and entertain the fans with a youthful looking team that will lose more than they win but gain valuable playing time and experience which will bode well for the not to distant future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
