BadgerBob 297 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 1 minute ago, AtlantaHotWings said: Decisions Decisions. 3 mi with no taxes for 1 yr or 1.9 = 3.8 - taxes for 2 years He is probably in the 40% bracket(assuming US Taxes) so 1.9 per year goes down to 1.14 so now he is underwater by 760K over 2 years. Hard to ignore leaving 380K on the table per year. Granted most members here would shrug their shoulders at that kind of loss and not be worried.....riiiiiight I am going on the ledge and saying deal gets done for 2.2 for 2, 3 days before camp after AA goes to Russia to scout things. Since he's a Canadian resident, can't they collect some federal taxes on the money he earns in Russia? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 1.25 is a low offer, but opening offers usually are. 1.9 is reasonable. I don't think it makes sense financially for him to go to the KHL for just 1 year at 3 mill. He'll make more than 3 when this 2 year deal is up. Over the 3 year period, then, he could end up making less. I guess if you're concerned with the olympics or immediate money then it could make sense, though. Still hope they're just trying get an extra 2-300 000 on the offer. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 $3 mil tax free is a hell of a lot of money. Between state, federal, medicare, social security, etc, it adds up quick. I don't blame him for listening. RE:Holland and Ilitch. I've said it before, as long as the Wings are selling tickets and merchandise I don't think ownership will make a change in the front office. At most they'll have Holland take the president job, promote from within, and Holland will "advise" the new GM, so it will remain status quo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 Dreger tweeted he's likely to go to KHL. I kind of like that Holland called his bluff. Let him play in the KHL and we'll keep his rights. More opportunity for Svech. 3M a year isn't fair market value for AA and that's the bottom line Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, joesuffP said: Dreger tweeted he's likely to go to KHL. I kind of like that Holland called his bluff. Let him play in the KHL and we'll keep his rights. More opportunity for Svech. 3M a year isn't fair market value for AA and that's the bottom line It's not a bluff if he actually does go because he then fullfills the intention, if he doesn't it would have been a bluff. Wheter AA is worth 3 mill per or not isn't the problem the way this organization is dealing with young players is while and if that doesn't change next year Detroit will not be a favorable destination new arena or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingnut1989 165 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Ugh get it done kenny, Other then zetterberg and AA last season everyone was so dull Edited September 5, 2017 by Wingnut1989 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 Overpaying an RFA who is the worst of the 3 RFA's is not a good place to start with these young players. AA wants more than his league comparables based on his KHL offer. A stupid GM would give in to these demands and then every RFA next contract begins at 3M. I say let him go. The man is a glorified Emerson Etem at this point if he doesn't develop Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingnut1989 165 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 THIS IS RUSSIA 1 1 NerveDamage and Keep Your Stick On the Ice reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lwing 68 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) On 8/22/2017 at 8:41 PM, Wheelchairsuperhero said: Why would he want to go to Russia? Blashill Half joking, but I will pretend to read AA's mind and I can easily see dread in playing for this guy another season (or half season more likely as his days as coach are numbered). No need to rehash it all, but Holland's actions play a part in this. As a result of the past few years of bungling contracts and a pathetic excuse for a coach, this not a promising team for a promising young forward. Oh, and why do we all assume he wants the Wings to match the KHL offer? I never thought that for a minute. I'm guessing a number around 2 will do it. Edited September 5, 2017 by lwing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 Offer was 1.9M at 2 years. Looks like he wants to match the KHL offer which would be dumb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NerveDamage 4,176 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, BinMucker94 said: lovely VanCity. ohh wait, that's us now... Edited September 5, 2017 by NerveDamage 2 Wingnut1989 and BinMucker94 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 I don’t think anyone’s capable of really defending the situation that we’re in here. They talk about building from the draft and being smart and this and that. And yet AA is undeniably one of our better young players that we’ve drafted, when we haven’t drafted many very promising players, and there’s a very good chance he’ll be playing in Russia soon. The fact that the KHL has come up at all is pathetic. This team is mismanaged, plain and simple. It’s nothing new, but it is what it is. 4 krsmith17, Detroit \# 1 Fan, frankgrimes and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, gcom007 said: I don’t think anyone’s capable of really defending the situation that we’re in here. They talk about building from the draft and being smart and this and that. And yet AA is undeniably one of our better young players that we’ve drafted, when we haven’t drafted many very promising players, and there’s a very good chance he’ll be playing in Russia soon. The fact that the KHL has come up at all is pathetic. This team is mismanaged, plain and simple. It’s nothing new, but it is what it is. Of course that's why I think Chris will do something after this year. Just ride it out watch some teams that actually have promising young talent and hope for Dahlin or at least secure a top 4 pick. Edmonton and Toronto needed to see all the flaws till they acted maybe its the same with Detroit AA's situation shows a lack of longterm thinking and therefore the wrong philosophy for a real rebuild Edited September 5, 2017 by frankgrimes 1 Dominator2005 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 20 minutes ago, gcom007 said: I don’t think anyone’s capable of really defending the situation that we’re in here. They talk about building from the draft and being smart and this and that. And yet AA is undeniably one of our better young players that we’ve drafted, when we haven’t drafted many very promising players, and there’s a very good chance he’ll be playing in Russia soon. The fact that the KHL has come up at all is pathetic. This team is mismanaged, plain and simple. It’s nothing new, but it is what it is. But isn't it AA's agent fault for get the KHL involved? Haven't seen any evidence of AA being mistreated in these negotiations. 1.9 is a fair offer. I'd be happy with 2.25, but I think Holland is right to shun any consideration of the KHL offer since it would set a dangerous precedent. And since the agent brought it up Holland is in a hard place where he can really raise the offer without seeming to give in due to a KHL offer. It's possible the agent hurt the negotiations and maybe even the likelihood of getting the offer raised by doing this. Not going to defend some of larger problems with the cap and some choices that got us there, but I think I can get out the trusty turd-polisher to see a bright side if AA goes to the KHL. On the one hand, we'll probably suck, but on the other hand, we'll probably suck and maybe get a shot at Dahlin or Svechnikov. Also, AA would come back and get the same deal they're offering now so we'll have him as a cheaper player for year longer into the rebuild which might help. But I'm pretty concerned about this - mostly for whether he'll want to sign on long term in the future or if this somehow bitters the relationship. 3 krsmith17, sputman and kliq reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,961 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 The relationship is only bitter while Holland and Blashill are here. That being said, $1.9M is a helluva raise from $600k. Do it for 2 years until more cap is available. Sounds easy, but I'm sure it's not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sputman 1,268 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 It's OK to be upset at both Holland and AA, people. It's a combination of the two. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted September 5, 2017 http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/09/high_probability_red_wings_and.html Here's what Babaev said about Athanasiou's future in an Instagram post that was translated from Russian: "I represent Athanasiou in Russia, we are currently considering different options, but we can say that with a high probability Andreas will continue his career in the KHL and he is ready to go to Russia. Will this be AK Bars, as they write in I can not confirm or disprove this information, but now Athanasiou is only studying the options, collecting information about the cities, including consulting with Pavel Datsyuk, who is familiar with the joint performances for Detroit. Most clubs are occupied by legionary positions. Athanasiou is a player of such caliber that he will find a place in any case. There are no such hockey players on the market and are not expected in the near future." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) While I'm obviously not happy with our current cap situation, I am happy that Holland is standing his ground in regards to AA using the KHL as leverage in negotiations. If Holland were to cave and pay AA 3mil per because a KHL team offered the same, he would be setting an awful precedent. I know some like to complain and go with the narrative "AA should ask for more money, look at what Abby/Helm etc. got!!!!!!!!!" but Holland overpaying UFA's doesn't mean he should also overpay RFA's. If anything, hopefully this teaches him a lesson and he doesnt overpay UFA's moving forward. We're not going to be contenders this year, so if he wants to walk, let him walk. We retain his rights anyways and I highly doubt he spends his entire career in the KHL. Or, trade him for a D-man along with a 1st which is what I have wanted for a while. Edited September 6, 2017 by kliq 3 Frozen-Man, krsmith17 and Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted September 6, 2017 39 minutes ago, kliq said: While I'm obviously not happy with our current cap situation, I am happy that Holland is standing his ground in regards to AA using the KHL as leverage in negotiations. If Holland were to cave and pay AA 3mil per because a KHL team offered the same, he would be setting an awful precedent. I know some like to complain and go with the narrative "AA should ask for more money, look at what Abby/Helm etc. got!!!!!!!!!" but Holland overpaying UFA's doesn't mean he should also overpay RFA's. If anything, hopefully this teaches him a lesson and he doesnt overpay UFA's moving forward. We're not going to be contenders this year, so if he wants to walk, let him walk. We retain his rights anyways and I highly doubt he spends his entire career in the KHL. Or, trade him for a D-man along with a 1st which is what I have wanted for a while. This precedent has been set long before that ship has sailed. It's not about AA being worth the asking price or not it' about not thinking ahead when signing veterans to unmovable deals, period. What's next Mantha and Larkin getting lowballed? When you are a team that's almost guaranteed a top pick you don't trade your first round pick and nobody is going to offer a top 4 dman for AA. AA can come back and ask for a trade so the Wings return would be even less that's the reality. Getting worked up over this stuff is useless but everyone saw it coming and it's just another reason why this franchise needs people from the outside starting next year 1 1 BadgerBob and Dominator2005 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, frankgrimes said: This precedent has been set long before that ship has sailed. It's not about AA being worth the asking price or not it' about not thinking ahead when signing veterans to unmovable deals, period. What's next Mantha and Larkin getting lowballed? When you are a team that's almost guaranteed a top pick you don't trade your first round pick and nobody is going to offer a top 4 dman for AA. AA can come back and ask for a trade so the Wings return would be even less that's the reality. Getting worked up over this stuff is useless but everyone saw it coming and it's just another reason why this franchise needs people from the outside starting next year Before I respond Frank, let me say welcome back. As much as I often disagree with you, it's nice to hear different perspectives from people who are not just trolling. With that being said, what do you mean that precedent has been set? Holland has a history of signing RFA's to good contracts. Bad contracts given to your UFA's are not the same thing. But lets just pretend it does for conversation sake, why would making another mistake be the solution here? 3mil to AA because he got an offer from the KHL will make things worse for us especially with Mantha and Larkin due next season. And no that doesnt mean "lowball them" it means pay them market value which is why I agree with @PavelValerievichDatsyuk and say we offer him around 2.1. I dont think we are even close to being "guaranteed" the top pick, we are not as bad as people on here like to say we are. But again, lets just pretend we are for conversation sake, odds are not what they used to be. Look at the Avs, they had one of the worst seasons a team has had in a long time and they got 4th last year, Philly just missed the playoffs and they got 2nd. It's a lottery. I never said trade AA for a top 4 d-man, so Im not going to argue that. What I want is to trade AA and the first which could be anywhere from the 1st pick to 15th pick for a #1 d-man. Sure we could get the lottery pick, but realistically we are going to pick likely somewhere between 6-12 just based on the odds. Lets use the "chance" of the lottery to leverage a team to trade us a stud on the blue-line. So our of curiosity, what is your stance on AA? Do you say pay him 3mil? Or are you saying let him walk? Forget who are GM is, if it was your call, what would you do? Edited September 6, 2017 by kliq 2 krsmith17 and PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted September 6, 2017 8 minutes ago, kliq said: Before I respond Frank, let me say welcome back. As much as I often disagree with you, it's nice to hear different perspectives from people who are not just trolling. With that being said, what do you mean that precedent has been set? Holland has a history of signing RFA's to good contracts. Bad contracts given to your UFA's are not the same thing. But lets just pretend it does for conversation sake, why would making another mistake be the solution here? 3mil to AA because he got an offer from the KHL will make things worse for us especially with Mantha and Larkin due next season. And no that doesnt mean "lowball them" it means pay them market value which is why I agree with @PavelValerievichDatsyuk and say we offer him around 2.1. I dont think we are even close to being "guaranteed" the top pick, we are not as bad as people on here like to say we are. But again, lets just pretend we are for conversation sake, odds are not what they used to be. Look at the Avs, they had one of the worst seasons a team has had in a long time and they got 4th last year, Philly just missed the playoffs and they got 2nd. It's a lottery. I never said trade AA for a top 4 d-man, so Im not going to argue that. What I want is to trade AA and the first which could be anywhere from the 1st pick to 15th pick for a #1 d-man. Sure we could get the lottery pick, but realistically we are going to pick likely somewhere between 6-12 just based on the odds. Lets use the "chance" of the lottery to leverage a team to trade us a stud on the blue-line. So our of curiosity, what is your stance on AA? Do you say pay him 3mil? Or are you saying let him walk? Forget who are GM is, if it was your call, what would you do? First off thank you still getting used to the new design of the site liked the old one much better and found it easy to handle. By precedent being set I meant the RFA market like everything else in this league is changing and front offices need to keep that in mind that's not just on the GM it's GM, AGM and whatever job description a cap guru has. There is no guarantee to land the top pick but the Wings should be one of the teams with the highest odds to land Dahlin and if that fails at least get the 4 overall. If I'm the GM with the roster right now I'd be looking for getting a good pick for him instead of losing AA to the KHL for nothing and then going through this again. That being said I would also work my butt of to get rid of vets in order to retain Larkin and Mantha. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MileHighWingsGuy 178 Report post Posted September 6, 2017 AA was one of the only few worth a damn last year. He signs every other idiot but takes a stand on the one guy I like watching. Maybe I can find an AK Bars link to see until Holland leaves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juklitz 85 Report post Posted September 6, 2017 Take it from the positive side. With AA missing and Witkowski&Booth signed, we´re for sure aiming on 2018 top 3 draft position whether you want or not, it´s going to be good old times rivalry with Avs! AA will get top minutes in AK Bars and could boost a little bit for next year assignment. Couple last years I´m just guessing, if it could be worst and every single year I´m surprised, that yes, they can do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted September 6, 2017 10 hours ago, kliq said: What I want is to trade AA and the first which could be anywhere from the 1st pick to 15th pick for a #1 d-man. If we're talking about an established 1D, that probably wouldn't be enough, even if it's a really high pick. The trade value of your standard 1D is crazy-high right now. I'm pretty sure AA's trade value is not especially high right now. Said it before and I'll say it again: we should be looking at young, hight-potential defensemen like Haydn Fleury. (Maybe that's what you're saying. If so, my bad.) 2 krsmith17 and kliq reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtlantaHotWings 988 Report post Posted September 6, 2017 13 hours ago, LeftWinger said: The relationship is only bitter while Holland and Blashill are here. That being said, $1.9M is a helluva raise from $600k. Do it for 2 years until more cap is available. Sounds easy, but I'm sure it's not. Seriously if my company offered me 3x my current salary for 2 years and knowing I can get more down the line I would probably grab the offer and run with it! I know the "system" know if I get hurt I am getting top notch care etc etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites