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HockeytownRules19

Athanasiou Rumor

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Jesus, this isn't even funny anymore. Holland has single handedly sank this franchise. One of our very few bright spots is about to walk away because Holland decided to over pay guys who probably wouldn't even make the roster on most teams. 

 

Edited by ShanahanMan

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Just now, ShanahanMan said:

Jesus, this isn't even funny anymore. Holland has single handedly sank this franchise. One of our very few bright spots if about to walk away because Holland decided to over pay guys who probably wouldn't even make the roster on most teams. 

 

What if AA is asking for $5M?  Not to defend Holland, but there is the other side to consider.

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3 minutes ago, toby91_ca said:

What if AA is asking for $5M?  Not to defend Holland, but there is the other side to consider.

We have no cap room. At this point, we can't even offer 2M. Just awful awful management. 

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8 minutes ago, ShanahanMan said:

We have no cap room. At this point, we can't even offer 2M. Just awful awful management. 

Agreed, Holland has got the team in a tough spot regardless, but where they are vs. cap shouldn't impact what you sign a player for (shoudl be his value).  So, even if there is no room to sign him for $2M, if that is the value, you sign him to that and then get to work figuring out your next move.

The even scarier thing on my mind is......we have a team right now that is not very good, unlikely to make the playoffs again....how is it that such a team has no cap room?  I know other teams are in similar spots, but when the team is bad, the hopes are at least that you aren't maxing out on payroll.

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Holland won't sign him to a deal that would put them over the cap, and he won't clear room until right before the season starts in case the LTIR fairy visits again this year to save him from his own mess.  I said earlier I'd think about Europe if I was him.  At this point I'd be telling Holland to sign me to a contract I've earned (and that's a lot more than $1.4 mil), to trade me to a team that will pay me, or I'll go play in Europe until I'm an UFA.  This is where overpaying players by "only $500k or so, so it's not THAT bad" comes back to bite you.  Hell, just giving Glendening the 2 year $900k per deal he should have gotten would enable them to sign AA to a $2 mil a year deal and get them under the cap.

Why wouldn't he be seriously considering a European offer?

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If AA isn't on this team at the start of the season, i'm going to lose my mind. I am a fan of the NFL and MLB also, have been since I was a kid, and as a fan of pro sports I have never been as infuriated with my team in general as I am with the current state of the Wings. We can't build on anything if we are letting young, talented players like this walk. It must be about the kids right now, and developing back to a respectable team, and it isn't at all.

I'm gonna go throw a chair now. 

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20 minutes ago, MabusIncarnate said:

If AA isn't on this team at the start of the season, i'm going to lose my mind. I am a fan of the NFL and MLB also, have been since I was a kid, and as a fan of pro sports I have never been as infuriated with my team in general as I am with the current state of the Wings. We can't build on anything if we are letting young, talented players like this walk. It must be about the kids right now, and developing back to a respectable team, and it isn't at all.

I'm gonna go throw a chair now. 

We're the product of a crappy league with too many issues. I'm afraid things will stay this way until the next CBA. 

Edited by kickazz

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Why would we want to trade a young player? Or did you mean trade for a young player? I just hope this cluster f*** Holland has created doesn't force him to trade low on a player, especially if it's a young player like Athanasiou. If we can trade him in a package for a young, potential top pair defenseman, I'd be all for it, but if we dump him for a pick, I'd be pissed...

Sorry, I really wasn't specific. We are on the same page. I more then anything want Holland to trade for a top end D-man. Ill use Trouba as my example, but it doesnt have to be him.

If we could trade a Nyquist, or Abby, or Helm etc. for a guy like Trouba, I would do it in a heartbeat, unfortunately I dont think there is a chance in hell that a team would give up a young D-man like that for anything but a young high end forward (ie. Larkin, Mantha, AA). Of the 3, I think AA easily has the lowest ceiling, and if we have to trade one of these three for a guy like Trouba, AA is the one I would want to trade. So the point I was trying to make, was now that this AA situation is not going well, hopefully Holland will risk trading a young player to get another young player at a position we have a greater need at.

Any chance Winnipeg takes AA, 2018 1st round pick, E for Trouba?

We get the young stud D-man we need and dump some cap

Winnipeg trades for a young forward, and gets a potential lottery pick.

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24 minutes ago, kliq said:

Sorry, I really wasn't specific. We are on the same page. I more then anything want Holland to trade for a top end D-man. Ill use Trouba as my example, but it doesnt have to be him.

If we could trade a Nyquist, or Abby, or Helm etc. for a guy like Trouba, I would do it in a heartbeat, unfortunately I dont think there is a chance in hell that a team would give up a young D-man like that for anything but a young high end forward (ie. Larkin, Mantha, AA). Of the 3, I think AA easily has the lowest ceiling, and if we have to trade one of these three for a guy like Trouba, AA is the one I would want to trade. So the point I was trying to make, was now that this AA situation is not going well, hopefully Holland will risk trading a young player to get another young player at a position we have a greater need at.

Any chance Winnipeg takes AA, 2018 1st round pick, E for Trouba?

We get the young stud D-man we need and dump some cap

Winnipeg trades for a young forward, and gets a potential lottery pick.

Okay, okay, I get your point. No need to triple post... :lol:

But yeah, I get what you were saying now, and I agree. I'd do that trade, but maybe have lottery protection on the first round pick, and retain some of Ericsson's cap hit. I'm not sure if Winnipeg would have much interest though unfortunately.

I'd start looking at lesser established defensemen. We wouldn't have to give up near as much, but of course, there's always the risk of them not panning out. I remember leading up to the '15 draft, I wanted to trade up for Werenski, and then the following season I wanted to put in an offer to Columbus for him. Oh, what could have been... Then leading up to the '16 draft, I wanted to trade up for Bean, and now want to put in an offer to Carolina for him. Do it Kenny!...

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I posted this elsewhere...it still applies....

Its an interesting scenario. I'm not sure what AA's agent's plan is here. 

Short term it puts a hurry up on KH, and if DRW doing get their house in order in time, the possibility of short term greater cash, lower tax earnings in the KHL.

But really, unless KH is willing to both move other assets & pony up more cash for prioritizing this year's team performance, what does it achieve? If AA goes to Russia, if he ever wants to come back to the NHL, where the real money is, he'll still be a DRW RFA with no more leverage, but less remaining time in the NHL in order to maximise his earnings, profile and chance at winning the SCF. The only way this could be to AA's benefit would be if he absolutely dominated the KHL and then returned as an asset that other teams would make a BIG offer sheet for. Which happens once in a blue moon, and mostly only when personal emnity is involved.

In the meantime his DRW roster spot might be won by someone else, and the team may evolve without him (or failing that, bomb out and draft high - which if its a fwd works against him even more).

And the thing is, despite the bedwetting of the 'lynch Kenny' brigade, everybody knows it.

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Boy who coulda seen this coming. Huge surprise. AA, Mantha and the next generational talent have been treated with the same care as our salary cap. No direction, no focus and no common sense. Kenny goes outta his way to coddle veteran players with marginal talent and shows an inverse relationship to the young talent while still hiding behind the youth movement mantra. Sure AA is lacking leverage in this scenario but is this how we will treat our up and coming talent? Is this what we've become? Maybe watching Sheahan and Abdelkader will somehow become exciting this year. Resign Draper, trade Mantha and Larkin to thoroughly put us all to sleep Kenny. Just make a trade, any trade and your supporters will fall over themselves hoping you get a 10 year extension.

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8 hours ago, kickazz said:

We're the product of a crappy league with too many issues. I'm afraid things will stay this way until the next CBA. 

We're the product of a GM reluctant to admit that that he needs to do a rebuild or let vets walk away, and who overvalues hard work at the expense of talent.

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26 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

We're the product of a GM reluctant to admit that that he needs to do a rebuild or let vets walk away, and who overvalues hard work at the expense of talent.

Nobody really rebuilds anymore. Teams just suck and got high picks after a decade (Edmonton, Toronto) 

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Is something like below still allowed to sign a player? A little difference between Hull and AA and the state of the team at the time this occurred...LOL

https://www.si.com/vault/2002/04/22/322091/ice-age-the-spirited-play-of-brett-hull-37-and-luc-robitaille-36-make-detroits-red-wings-the-old-favorites#

"Four players, including Chelios and Shanahan, deferred some of this
year's salary, and Hull agreed to backload the deal, taking just
$3.5 million of the money this season so the Wings would have two
profitable playoff runs before having to pay him off by July 1,
2003."

 

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6 hours ago, kickazz said:

Nobody really rebuilds anymore. Teams just suck and got high picks after a decade (Edmonton, Toronto) 

To an extent I guess. But at some point, teams do usually plan to rebuild (suck). I think Toronto planned to suck, which looks to be panning out quite well for them. It's yet to be determined whether or not that plan will result in a Cup (I hope not...)I think the key is to plan to suck in the right year. Edmonton bottomed out for several years, but it wasn't until they landed McDavid (a true generational talent) that they were finally able to start to turn things around. The Leafs were fortunate that they landed Matthews (who also looks to be an elite talent) early in their suckage...

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2 hours ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Is something like below still allowed to sign a player? A little difference between Hull and AA and the state of the team at the time this occurred...LOL

https://www.si.com/vault/2002/04/22/322091/ice-age-the-spirited-play-of-brett-hull-37-and-luc-robitaille-36-make-detroits-red-wings-the-old-favorites#

"Four players, including Chelios and Shanahan, deferred some of this
year's salary, and Hull agreed to backload the deal, taking just
$3.5 million of the money this season so the Wings would have two
profitable playoff runs before having to pay him off by July 1,
2003."

 

I suppose they could defer some payments, but ti wouldn't affect the cap

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10 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

We're the product of a GM reluctant to admit that that he needs to do a rebuild or let vets walk away, and who overvalues hard work at the expense of talent.

I dont know this for fact, but I have a strong feeling that if players had to defer payments to another player because of cap issues, the NHL and the PA would be all over it and it would end up being some type of circumvention. 

Edited by kliq

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22 hours ago, Wingnut1989 said:

This is redic, why sign daley if you cant even sign what you have

Pretty much this.

Daley is not needed...Maybe Chris Ilitch/Jimmy D wanted a veteran on D, and this was the best option?

Either way - the team will still be pretty bad.

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2 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Pretty much this.

Daley is not needed...Maybe Chris Ilitch/Jimmy D wanted a veteran on D, and this was the best option?

Either way - the team will still be pretty bad.

Holland apparently believes that adding a second pair caliber D to the team will put them over the top.

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6 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Holland apparently believes that adding a second pair caliber D to the team will put them over the top.

And when we fail, again, he'll simply attribute it to having an off year but next season, with our addition of two more 35+ year old vets, we'll "bounce back". 

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