kliq 3,755 Report post Posted August 26, 2017 1 hour ago, MileHighWingsGuy said: We've waited for a "fix" the last decade what makes you think they'll do anything at all. Hell half the guys on this site are happy about the Tatar signing and letting AA walk and remaining stagnant is what KH does best. I would argue 90% of the people on this site are happy with the Tatar signing, and about 1% happy are happy if AA walk. 2 PavelValerievichDatsyuk and HadThomasVokounOnFortSt reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted August 26, 2017 1 hour ago, MileHighWingsGuy said: We've waited for a "fix" the last decade what makes you think they'll do anything at all. Hell half the guys on this site are happy about the Tatar signing and letting AA walk and remaining stagnant is what KH does best. Tatar is a good player and he's in his prime. 2 krsmith17 and Hockeymom1960 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted August 27, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said: I like the Tatar signing. Howard, Weiss, Nyquist, Abdelkader, Nielsen, Daley = No. These are all bad moves for a team that needs to get bigger, faster, tougher. Tatar doesnt really help in those aspects either, but the excitement level and energy he brings make him the one small guy I like on our squad. Nyauist doesnt bug me too much either, but Tatar is enough. Ah yes we have a guy here who wants to pay Tatar $5 million + for "excitement level and energy" Same guy that complains about Holland irrational favoring of vets. Lmfao. Edited August 27, 2017 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MileHighWingsGuy 178 Report post Posted August 27, 2017 7 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said: I like the Tatar signing. Howard, Weiss, Nyquist, Abdelkader, Nielsen, Daley = No. These are all bad moves for a team that needs to get bigger, faster, tougher. Tatar doesnt really help in those aspects either, but the excitement level and energy he brings make him the one small guy I like on our squad. Nyauist doesnt bug me too much either, but Tatar is enough. I wouldn't be so worried about the Tatar signing (though I still think he's overpaid) if we had moved Nyquist and signed AA. 1 BadgerBob reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted August 27, 2017 If trades are made, the organization is going to have to retain a portion of the salary. There is no way other teams are going to take on the players and the contracts that you along with them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted August 27, 2017 Connor Brown just signed a 3 year deal for 2.1/season so that should help the process with AA. He's the same age with similar stats. 20 goals and was actually one of their leading penalty killers 2 krsmith17 and PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MileHighWingsGuy 178 Report post Posted August 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, Son of a Wing said: Connor Brown just signed a 3 year deal for 2.1/season so that should help the process with AA. He's the same age with similar stats. 20 goals and was actually one of their leading penalty killers Are we waiting for similar talent contract for comparison guidelines or for Kenny to free up salary cap space? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted August 27, 2017 Well if he's signing a contract for that amount we can sign him now and figure it out later after camp and injuries. That's my understanding. I get the impression through what I've read that he and his agent are asking for 3+/year but that's really just a guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted August 27, 2017 3 hours ago, MileHighWingsGuy said: Are we waiting for similar talent contract for comparison guidelines or for Kenny to free up salary cap space? for cap space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted August 27, 2017 KH should try to move She (Pens could use him as a 3rd line center)... I guess/hope that we can get at least a 2nd rounder (they overpaid for Reaves maybe KH can do some work)... with moving She we should have enough money for AA. Mantha - Z - Tatar Larkin - Nielsen/AA - Nyquist Abdelkader - AA/Nielsen - Baby Bert Helm - LG - Kwitowski 1 HadThomasVokounOnFortSt reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted August 28, 2017 "Expecting to have the decision this week" according to Athanasiou's agent, Darren Ferris. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/08/andreas_athanasiou_red_wings_t.html#incart_river_index 1 amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted August 28, 2017 $3 mil is too much, as much as I like AA. $2.25 give or take, anything over $2.5 is bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted August 28, 2017 I think Son of a Wing is right, that the Connor Brown contract is a very good comparable. I still think it should be somewhere around $2-2.25M for 2-3 years, only because he's an RFA and has very little leverage (other than the supposed KHL offer). Otherwise, I wouldn't have any problem with a $3M x 3 years contract, as I think he would outperform it, if not next year, definitely in years 2 and 3. 1 Dominator2005 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted August 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said: This is how I feel. The guy showed he could pick corners last year with his wrist shot and slap shot. Only he and Mantha were getting to the circles and scoring consistently. Give AA 20 mins a night and some pp time, I think he outperforms Tatar. I don't think it would be out of the question, but I wouldn't count on it, not for this coming season anyway. I can see Athanasiou getting close to 40 (assuming he's a Red Wing), and if all goes well, I can see Tatar cracking 50 again. Same goes for Nyquist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935 Report post Posted August 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said: This is how I feel. The guy showed he could pick corners last year with his wrist shot and slap shot. Only he and Mantha were getting to the circles and scoring consistently. Give AA 20 mins a night and some pp time, I think he outperforms Tatar. It's rare that any forwards play 20 minutes a night. Only maybe 10 guys play 20 min a game (Getslaf, McDavid, Kane, etc). None of our forwards did this past year. Z Averaged the most with 19:45 and the next forward was Nyquist with 17:26. If you're really asking for that, it's unreasonable. As for AA vs TT, I think AA could have a higher potential, but I think he has some growing before he finds consistency so I wouldn't expect him to have the higher numbers this year. 1 1 krsmith17 and Shaman reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted August 29, 2017 On 8/25/2017 at 7:52 PM, krsmith17 said: We have no need for complimentary pieces? And why is that? Athanasiou has shown flashes of elite level play (don't mistake this as me saying he's elite). So why so quick to give up on him? Because his agent is trying to use the KHL as leverage to get a deal done? AA isn't going anywhere. Holland just needs to smarten the f*** up and work out something to get him signed. So with that logic, we should keep Zetterberg, Nielsen, (Mantha?), (Larkin?), Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Kronwall and Daley, and get rid of everyone else? Complimentary pieces compliment a core. We do not have a core (besides Zberg). We need a new core, not stacks of complimentary pieces. We have 0 pieces currently on this team at defense that look like core players. Larkin and Mrazek have taken big steps back from being core pieces. Hoping Mantha can be one, but we need to see how he plays outside of Zbergs wing yet. Everyone on this team can go besides Zberg, Larkin, and Mantha. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
THATANK911 17 Report post Posted August 30, 2017 On 8/25/2017 at 10:25 AM, kickazz said: Right but my point is doing bad 1-2 seasons doesn't necessarily mean you'll get the top 3 pick. And suddently 1-2 years can turn into 5 years. As kliq pointed out Toronto also had some major injuries that year. Plus the point I made about the bottom teams also having high parity. It's almost a competition to end up in the bottom 3 or even bottom 5 just like it is in the top 3 or top 5. Parity + Lottery = NHL making it virtually impossible for 1-2 year tank job to work without luck. See Carolina, New Jersey, Buffalo, Arizona etc. Prime example Colorado, they tanked it and didn't go No1. See the turn out at the games, it was like they moved them to Carolina. I don't like tanking, odds are not there anyways. If your eliminated, i can see bringing some guys up and get some time in the show in moderation to help the curve. 2 PavelValerievichDatsyuk and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted August 30, 2017 If there isn't a Crosby or McDavid in the draft, is picking #1 really that important though? I'd think getting a high pick is what you want, not necessarily number 1. Picking high will give you a better chance at getting a star, but I'm not sure there is a significant difference between 1-4 for example in most draft years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,916 Report post Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Larkin took a step back because of his usage. When he was allowed to play his game, he was in Calder consideration. As he was slowly coached into Blashill's style, he regressed. He needs to be able to play his game, in the top 6, with complimentary players. Our core up front are Larkin, Mantha and AA. So long as Holland gets his low balling head out if his ass. I imagine a line of: AA - Larkin - Tippett Oh, nevermind, But AA - Ras - Larkin may be a good looker soon. I hope Ras becomes a core player. Edited August 30, 2017 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juklitz 85 Report post Posted August 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, LeftWinger said: Larkin took a step back because of his usage. I was pleased with his effort and energy. At the end, last year was great school for Larkin that he won´t play every single shift with Zetterberg and he has just to keep going to achieve. I don´t mind his poor numbers. Ras - Larkin sounds like a future. Larkin needs some hockey iq with good hands on his left side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted August 30, 2017 24 minutes ago, toby91_ca said: If there isn't a Crosby or McDavid in the draft, is picking #1 really that important though? I'd think getting a high pick is what you want, not necessarily number 1. Picking high will give you a better chance at getting a star, but I'm not sure there is a significant difference between 1-4 for example in most draft years. I'd say that's true in some drafts, but not all. There are no Crosby's or McDavid's (generational talents) coming up any time soon, but there will likely be another Matthews (tier below) in the next couple years. Rasmus Dahlin is being touted as the next Erik Karlsson. I'm not sure he'll be that good, but he and Andrei Svechnikov appear to be heads and shoulders above everyone else in next year's draft class. 17 minutes ago, LeftWinger said: Larkin took a step back because of his usage. When he was allowed to play his game, he was in Calder consideration. As he was slowly coached into Blashill's style, he regressed. He needs to be able to play his game, in the top 6, with complimentary players. Our core up front are Larkin, Mantha and AA. So long as Holland gets his low balling head out if his ass. I imagine a line of: AA - Larkin - Tippett Oh, nevermind, But AA - Ras - Larkin may be a good looker soon. I hope Ras becomes a core player. Ideally Larkin - Rasmussen will be our 1 - 2 punch down the middle, if all goes well with their development. Some combination of Mantha, Athanasiou, Svechnikov, Nyquist, Tatar, other, would round out the top 6 wingers... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted August 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, LeftWinger said: Larkin took a step back because of his usage. When he was allowed to play his game, he was in Calder consideration. As he was slowly coached into Blashill's style, he regressed. He needs to be able to play his game, in the top 6, with complimentary players. Our core up front are Larkin, Mantha and AA. So long as Holland gets his low balling head out if his ass. Sorry but that's wrong Larkin played awesome for this first half of the season, after the ASG his play dropped and it continued to do so last year. Can the guy bounce back? Yes, will he be as good as he showed in his first half season who knows. I think the truth is the guy will be a very good second line center but Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted August 30, 2017 43 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said: Svechnikov-Svechnikov-Mantha Rasmussen-Larkin-Athanasiou That wouldnt be a bad 2nd line/3rd line combo. I know you're likely trolling with this post (at least I hope...), but (if you're not) you don't think Andrei Svechnikov or Mantha have top line potential? You don't think any of Larkin, Rasmussen or Athanasiou have top six potential? Also, both Svechnikov's will be wingers at the NHL level, so that "2nd line" doesn't have a center... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted August 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said: They have top line POTENTIAL, the same way Datsyuk and Zetterberg had it the first 3 years they were here. Datsyuk and Zetterberg were 6th and 7th round picks respectively, playing behind multiple future hall-of-famers. Different team, different time. Mantha has already proven he can handle the top line, and Andrei looks to be a number 1 / 2 overall pick, the kind of talent that plays top line within a year or two of being drafted. By the time Andrei is drafted (we probably won't get him) and he and Rasmussen make the team, all of the others will have between 2-4 years experience and will be in the primes of their career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted August 30, 2017 1 minute ago, krsmith17 said: Datsyuk and Zetterberg were 6th and 7th round picks respectively, playing behind multiple future hall-of-famers. Different team, different time. Mantha has already proven he can handle the top line, and Andrei looks to be a number 1 / 2 overall pick, the kind of talent that plays top line within a year or two of being drafted. By the time Andrei is drafted (we probably won't get him) and he and Rasmussen make the team, all of the others will have between 2-4 years experience and will be in the primes of their career. Really? He has one 60 game season with 36 pts with Zberg feeding him. Zberg could get a drunk chimpanzee on skates 36 pts in a season. None of our young players are proven top 6 players yet, I think that's pretty clear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites