Athanasiou Signed 1 year $1.4 mil

[NerveDamage 4,176]

lol, I think I spotted an LGW'er on Twitter...

 

[Andy Pred 48 337]

has anyone actually thought that this has been worked between Kenny and AA? Go play in the K for a year help us out with our current cap issues, then I can give you a decent pay rise in 18-19 when ive got a ton of $s off the books !

[kickazz 5,459]

25 minutes ago, NerveDamage said:

lol, I think I spotted an LGW'er on Twitter...

 

It's Jonas

Edited September 6, 2017 by kickazz

[NerveDamage 4,176]

14 minutes ago, kickazz said:

It's Jonas

...you mean Bill

[kipwinger 8,492]

So Holland's whole rationale for not paying AA is that he'd then have to pay Mantha and Larkin more than the standard "bridge" deals as well.  He seems to be pretty dated in how he handles salary negotiations.  Many organizations are foregoing the "bridge" deal and locking young talent up to longer term contracts these days.  For example, Columbus game Alexander Wennberg 4.9 million over six years coming off his entry level contract. Likewise, Nashville have Viktor Arvidsson 4.25 million over 7 years.  Both were coming off their entry level contracts and were RFAs.  Considering both of these guys are better than AA, I'd say 2.5-3 million would be good for him, but over a long term

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, NerveDamage said:

...you mean Bill

I meant TheAxe

51 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

So Holland's whole rationale for not paying AA is that he'd then have to pay Mantha and Larkin more than the standard "bridge" deals as well.  He seems to be pretty dated in how he handles salary negotiations.  Many organizations are foregoing the "bridge" deal and locking young talent up to longer term contracts these days.  For example, Columbus game Alexander Wennberg 4.9 million over six years coming off his entry level contract. Likewise, Nashville have Viktor Arvidsson 4.25 million over 7 years.  Both were coming off their entry level contracts and were RFAs.  Considering both of these guys are better than AA, I'd say 2.5-3 million would be good for him, but over a long term

I remember him saying in an interview that he's not a fan of paying players out like that and doesn't think it's the right way to go about things. 

[Shaman 713]

Given that Connor Brown got 2.1 (6.3 total) per year for 3 years, 1.9 per year for 2 years for AA seems like market rates. If AA wants to damage his career by playing in a lesser league for "more" money, that's his choice. And I put more in quotations because as a foreign worker who still is a Canadian citizen he will have to pay Russian and Canadian taxes on it. At least by playing in Detroit he gets a credit for taxes he would pay to the Canadian government, and wouldn't have to pay beyond his effective US tax rate (IE if his effective US tax rate is 25%, he pays 33% to the Canadian government, he would have have overpaid the US government 8%).

[gcom007 1,465]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

I remember him saying in an interview that he's not a fan of paying players out like that and doesn't think it's the right way to go about things. 

And clearly his method is kicking all of the ass. Brav-effing-o.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

9 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

And clearly his method is kicking all of the ass. Brav-effing-o.

I guess he's all out of tires.

[Buppy 1,720]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

So Holland's whole rationale for not paying AA is that he'd then have to pay Mantha and Larkin more than the standard "bridge" deals as well.  He seems to be pretty dated in how he handles salary negotiations.  Many organizations are foregoing the "bridge" deal and locking young talent up to longer term contracts these days.  For example, Columbus game Alexander Wennberg 4.9 million over six years coming off his entry level contract. Likewise, Nashville have Viktor Arvidsson 4.25 million over 7 years.  Both were coming off their entry level contracts and were RFAs.  Considering both of these guys are better than AA, I'd say 2.5-3 million would be good for him, but over a long term

That's a mis-characterization. What was said is that he doesn't want to set the precedent of letting a player use a KHL offer to determine their NHL value. Nothing about bridge deals at all. Seeing as the KHL offer is reportedly one year, it's a bit of a speculative leap to assume that he would accept that amount over a longer-term deal. 

That said, $3M would probably not be a bad deal even short-term, though it is a bit above the apparent market value.

Also, it's probably premature to say bridge deals are "dated". Not going to bother looking, but I'd bet there are many more recent examples of players who have signed bridge deals than not. At least for players around AA's level.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

4 hours ago, kickazz said:

I meant TheAxe

I remember him saying in an interview that he's not a fan of paying players out like that and doesn't think it's the right way to go about things. 

No, he'd rather give the money to aging grinders who have zero chance at being worth their cap hit at the end of their deals

9 hours ago, Dabura said:

I still think people are reading too much into this situation and getting too worked up. The way I see it, nothing too unusual or alarming has happened, at least according to the reports/rumors that have been circulating. Holland opened with a lowball offer, as you'd expect him -- or anyone else in his position -- to do. Athanasiou's camp came to the table with an unrealistically high demand, as expected. The agent is clearly using the KHL as leverage, as any agent would do. (The KHL card is the only one AA can play; it's the only leverage he has. Such is the plight of the RFA.) Holland countered with a perfectly good let's-meet-in-the-middle offer, as you'd expect him to do. This is all pretty standard stuff.

The next and final step is "AA signs with the Wings." Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. If he does, great. If he doesn't and instead goes to the KHL (assuming this KHL thing isn't smoke and mirrors), then oh well, best of luck to him in his future endeavors. Holland can't allow himself to be bullied by an unproven RFA. He can't set that precedent.

the 2 year deal at $1.9 mil is recent according to reports.  Something in the $2-$2.5 mil/year range what AA was probably going to get all along.  Holland should have just skipped the obviously too low $1.25 a year deal and offered something fair.  And if he had to overpay a bit now, so what?  I'd rather have a young guy with potential making a little too much than a guy who has already hit his peak and will only decline getting that money.  Holland has it backwards though, pay your grinders and support players who are fairly easy to replace, try to nickel and dime your young talent.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

[Shaman 713]

I will now start being super blunt about the KHL. Going there isn't tax free and in fact he could be double taxed because Russia may not have a double taxation law like the US has. Here are relevant quotes on the topic of a Canadian citizen working overseas (Russia):

 

Quote

Canadians travelling extensively, living or working abroad still have to pay Canadian and provincial or territorial income taxes. It is important that you know your residency status and the income tax rules that apply to you while you are outside Canada.

This is straight from the Canadian government.

Here's from Canadian tax experts:

Quote

"You cannot reduce your tax burden if you are a Canadian resident working and living abroad," says Allan Madan, a chartered accountant and tax expert in Toronto.

Cleo Hamel, a senior tax analyst with H&R Block, says many Canadians only realize their mistake years after departing the country. Many assume payment of Canadian taxes isn't required if they live outside the country for a year.

"Most people think about the actual move or they think about the life that they're going to lead outside of the country, without actually thinking or researching if there are any tax implications," she said from Calgary.

 

But experts in the field say the only way to legally free yourself of Canadian income tax is to completely sever ties with the country and become a permanent resident elsewhere.

So unless AA becomes a permanent resident of Russia, he has to pay taxes.

The whole AA won't pay taxes is a trope that needs to die. He has to pay taxes. And he actually will likely pay less by playing in Michigan (both total amount and effective rate) than he would in Kazan because the US government has provisions that prevent you from being effectively double taxed.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Shaman

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, Shaman said:

I will now start being super blunt about the KHL. Going there isn't tax free and in fact he could be double taxed because Russia may not have a double taxation law like the US has. Here are relevant quotes on the topic of a Canadian citizen working overseas (Russia):

 

This is straight from the Canadian government.

Here's from Canadian tax experts:

Damn.

You just shut so many people down on this thread. So why is AA interested in KHL? Is it true, is he in fact... an imbecile?

Btw I am curious why no one has given AA an offer sheet.

Edited September 7, 2017 by kickazz

[amato 3,210]

18 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Damn.

You just shut so many people down on this thread. So why is AA interested in KHL? Is it true, is he in fact... an imbecile?

Btw I am curious why no one has given AA an offer sheet.

It's probably just his agent looking for as much leverage as he can where his client would usually have next to none. I could also understand the Olympics being a factor.. wouldn't blame him for wanting to play there.  

I still feel like AA will end up signing before camp but we'll see I suppose. 

[Juklitz 85]

40 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Btw I am curious why no one has given AA an offer sheet.

Me too. It´s not a practice to do so nowadays, but this is the case, when I´d understand.  What would Holland do? Start offer sheeting their players??? ololololo

[gcom007 1,465]

3 hours ago, Shaman said:

I will now start being super blunt about the KHL. Going there isn't tax free and in fact he could be double taxed because Russia may not have a double taxation law like the US has. Here are relevant quotes on the topic of a Canadian citizen working overseas (Russia):

 

This is straight from the Canadian government.

Here's from Canadian tax experts:

I’m no tax expert, but where does the “no taxes” info come from? I feel like I’ve read it and seen it enough that if what you’re saying is true, someone would’ve said something by now. Or perhaps it is true, but there are other factors? Perhaps it’s $3 million guaranteed and any tax burden accumulated is covered? Again, no expert, and I don’t follow KHL contracts very closely at all, but I don’t feel like agents and many in the press would continue on with saying “tax free” money if there wasn’t more to it.

I guess I’m just saying that I don’t think any players are going to read this and go “oh snap!” They’d be pretty pissed at their agents at this point if so.

Edited September 7, 2017 by gcom007

[kickazz 5,459]

AA got an offer from AK Bars Kazan.

Kazan is the muslim city in TATARstan, Russia. The people are ethnically considered "Tatars". Maybe he wants to meet a hot muslim chick. Or naybe the Tatar at home isn't good enough for him.

He could just drive 20 min from the LCA to Dearborn and meet muslim girls there. Or drive 25 min to Royal Oak to meet a Tatar there with the first name of Tomas.

He's being so irrational!

Edited September 7, 2017 by kickazz

[BadgerBob 297]

14 hours ago, kipwinger said:

So Holland's whole rationale for not paying AA is that he'd then have to pay Mantha and Larkin more than the standard "bridge" deals as well.  He seems to be pretty dated in how he handles salary negotiations.  Many organizations are foregoing the "bridge" deal and locking young talent up to longer term contracts these days.  For example, Columbus game Alexander Wennberg 4.9 million over six years coming off his entry level contract. Likewise, Nashville have Viktor Arvidsson 4.25 million over 7 years.  Both were coming off their entry level contracts and were RFAs.  Considering both of these guys are better than AA, I'd say 2.5-3 million would be good for him, but over a long term

If you don't give players bridge deals how are you suppose to overpay them when they're old?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

4 hours ago, kickazz said:

Damn.

You just shut so many people down on this thread. So why is AA interested in KHL? Is it true, is he in fact... an imbecile?

Btw I am curious why no one has given AA an offer sheet.

$3 mil is still a lot more than $1.9 mil.

He hasn't gotten an offer sheet because the GMs seem to have a gentleman's agreement not to give them out in most cases.  Occasionally a star like Weber gets one, but that's about it.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

$3 mil is still a lot more than $1.9 mil.

Not really

[toby91_ca 620]

36 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Not really

So, 58% more isn't "a lot?"

[xtrememachine1 795]

10 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Just think of the benefits of playing in Russia...

Skinny hot chicks (most have teeth)...Cheap booze, and wild parties...Get to mingle with members of Russian organize crime...And above all - you get to fly on suspect aircraft with pilots who are either intoxicated, or hungover...

Who doesn't want to live by the seats of their pants?

Yeah, I don't care how much Russia is offering, if I'm AA, I take whatever I can to stay in the US.  If its a deal I don't like, I sign it, ask to be traded or play it out until I'm a UFA and then leave.  We'll be hurt by AA leaving, but his career will be hurt more if he goes to the KHL.

Not for anything, I love AA and think he'll make a huge impact on our long term plans to be successful again, however, I find it interesting that other teams aren't trying to sign him away with an offer sheet.  A team like the Penguins could afford him and could afford to lose the draft picks too and he would fit in really well with the rest of the makeup of that team.

[toby91_ca 620]

4 hours ago, gcom007 said:

I’m no tax expert, but where does the “no taxes” info come from? I feel like I’ve read it and seen it enough that if what you’re saying is true, someone would’ve said something by now. Or perhaps it is true, but there are other factors? Perhaps it’s $3 million guaranteed and any tax burden accumulated is covered? Again, no expert, and I don’t follow KHL contracts very closely at all, but I don’t feel like agents and many in the press would continue on with saying “tax free” money if there wasn’t more to it.

I guess I’m just saying that I don’t think any players are going to read this and go “oh snap!” They’d be pretty pissed at their agents at this point if so.

It is a complicated issue, but the no tax thing doesn't really work if you just go and play the hockey season in Russia and live in Canada the rest of the year.  There are various scenarios you can be in, of which I'm not an expert, but one is if you are out of the country for more than 181 days.  I know a lot of people that have decided to go work in Bermuda....at least for a while.   Their earnings in Bermuda are tax free (I think....if not tax free, very little tax, like 2.5%).  The key though is that they needed to cut all ties in Canada (i.e. can't hold assets like property, can't have bank accounts, etc.).

[amato 3,210]

 

maybe(hopefully) a sign AA has decided against the KHL? They could always make another trade of course but here's to hoping.