chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 1 minute ago, NerveDamage said: https://www.facebook.com/DETROITREDWINGS/videos/vb.16313679138/10155284619044139/?type=3&theater KH talks to the media. I'm trying to listen to it, but Kenny is so boring ffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) Per Ken, Wings will apply for AA's work visa on Monday. This process could take anywhere from 2 to 14 days. After that he has to pass a physical. So AA is definitely not set to go yet (also gives the Wings times to explore a trade) Edited October 20, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs 2 Dabura and chaps80 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtlantaHotWings 987 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 9 minutes ago, chaps80 said: I'm trying to listen to it, but Kenny is so boring ffs. Just stuck a fork in my eye listening to him....good lord he is sooo vanilla 1 chaps80 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Datsyukian Deke 127 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, chaps80 said: The two year was $1.9 mill per. One year was close to what he just got. Point is, he had no arbitration rights this time. He'll have after this season. 1 chaps80 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,476 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, The Datsyukian Deke said: Point is, he had no arbitration rights this time. He'll have after this season. Point is he should have taken one of the 2 deals offered before the season started, instead of being a spoiled brat. 1 1 Dabura and chaps80 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 1 minute ago, The Datsyukian Deke said: Point is, he had no arbitration rights this time. He'll have after this season. Yep! So he produces or he won't get a raise. Works out great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 Let’s go!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Datsyukian Deke 127 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Euro_Twins said: Point is he should have taken one of the 2 deals offered before the season started, instead of being a spoiled brat. So amazing guys around here really blame AA and not our idiot GM.. He is not a spoiled brat. He saw players delivering less than he does getting millions of dollars thrown at them by Holland. He was, in just his second season, already close to 0.5 PPG while being not even used properly. You really blame that guy for taking a look at Helm and Abby and thinking "wtf are you offering me"? Or seeing Holland signing Witkoswski and telling AA afterwards "oops, we don't have enough cap anymore, you need to take less". 2 BadgerBob and chaps80 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said: So amazing guys around here really blame AA and not our idiot GM.. He is not a spoiled brat. He saw players delivering less than he does getting millions of dollars thrown at them by Holland. He was, in just his second season, already close to 0.5 PPG while being not even used properly. You really blame that guy for taking a look at Helm and Abby and thinking "wtf are you offering me"? Or seeing Holland signing Witkoswski and telling AA afterwards "oops, we don't have enough cap anymore, you need to take less". I agree. Seems to be a Holland thing to expect good skilled young players who produce to bend over and take what's offered after he gives deals like he has recently. That and signing guys like Witkowski before taking care of in house buisiness. I would have lumped Daley in there before, but he's been pretty good and not a massive cap hit. What Holland offered in the two year deal is pretty much in line with other young players with similar numbers signing their first extension though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said: So amazing guys around here really blame AA and not our idiot GM.. He is not a spoiled brat. He saw players delivering less than he does getting millions of dollars thrown at them by Holland. He was, in just his second season, already close to 0.5 PPG while being not even used properly. You really blame that guy for taking a look at Helm and Abby and thinking "wtf are you offering me"? Or seeing Holland signing Witkoswski and telling AA afterwards "oops, we don't have enough cap anymore, you need to take less". Athanasiou was know for attitude problems long before we drafted him. This isn't a new thing guy. He refused to play Blashill's defensive scheme. He has himself to blame for being stuck on the 3rd line. Witkowski's contract does not influence Athansiou's contract whatsoever. He priced himself higher than the organization priced him. If we hadn't signed Witkowski AA wouldn't just get the money Witkowski was offered as well lol 6 minutes ago, chaps80 said: I agree. Seems to be a Holland thing to expect good skilled young players who produce to bend over and take what's offered after he gives deals like he has recently. That and signing guys like Witkowski before taking care of in house buisiness. I would have lumped Daley in there before, but he's been pretty good and not a massive cap hit. What Holland offered in the two year deal is pretty much in line with other young players with similar numbers signing their first extension though. Did you just contradict yourself in the same paragraph? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Did you just contradict yourself in the same paragraph? Kinda. Holland is known for lowballing some players, but what he offered was fair. He should have been more of a priority though, given his skill and production. He seems to let contracts with young drafted players drag on to the point where tension builds, but with his veterans he gets it done and over with, even if the price is steep.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 27 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said: So amazing guys around here really blame AA and not our idiot GM.. He is not a spoiled brat. He saw players delivering less than he does getting millions of dollars thrown at them by Holland. He was, in just his second season, already close to 0.5 PPG while being not even used properly. You really blame that guy for taking a look at Helm and Abby and thinking "wtf are you offering me"? Or seeing Holland signing Witkoswski and telling AA afterwards "oops, we don't have enough cap anymore, you need to take less". It's apples (RFA) and oranges (UFA). Holland can (and does) get blamed for a lot, but his dealings with RFA's has been great, and that includes with Athanasiou. AA was offered a fair contract, and he finally wised up and took the deal. I hated the Witkowski signing, but it had absolutely nothing to do with AA not being signed. Holland had a number in mind, and he didn't come far off that number. Good on him. Good signing. 2 kliq and ChristopherReevesLegs reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 1 minute ago, chaps80 said: Kinda. Holland is known for lowballing some players, but what he offered was fair. He should have been more of a priority though, given his skill and production. He seems to let contracts with young drafted players drag on to the point where tension builds, but with his veterans he gets it done and over with, even if the price is steep.. Don't worry, when Athanasiou is a veteran and becomes a UFA, Holland (if he's still the GM) will be right there with his bag of cash, ready to overpay... and people will still complain. He gets his RFA's signed to very fair contracts, and people still complain... By the way chaps, this isn't necessarily directed at you. 1 ChristopherReevesLegs reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 1 minute ago, krsmith17 said: Don't worry, when Athanasiou is a veteran and becomes a UFA, Holland (if he's still the GM) will be right there with his bag of cash, ready to overpay... and people will still complain. He gets his RFA's signed to very fair contracts, and people still complain... By the way chaps, this isn't necessarily directed at you. Nah, I get what your saying. Holland just can't seem to find that balance between the young RFA's and the veterans when it comes to money for the most part. That's why he has the roster he has at the cap hit he has. He's at the damn cap limit. With THIS roster. I bet he drinks a lot and wishes it was 2002 again where he could spend Illitch's cash at will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, chaps80 said: Nah, I get what your saying. Holland just can't seem to find that balance between the young RFA's and the veterans when it comes to money for the most part. That's why he has the roster he has at the cap hit he has. He's at the damn cap limit. With THIS roster. I bet he drinks a lot and wishes it was 2002 again where he could spend Illitch's cash at will. He's above average dealing with RFA's, and below average dealing with UFA's. I just don't get the idea that he should have given in to Athanasiou's demands just because he has with UFA'... 1 ChristopherReevesLegs reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted October 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, chaps80 said: Kinda. Holland is known for lowballing some players, but what he offered was fair. He should have been more of a priority though, given his skill and production. He seems to let contracts with young drafted players drag on to the point where tension builds, but with his veterans he gets it done and over with, even if the price is steep.. Read Smiths post about apples and oranges. There seems to be an underlying thought that if we hadnt signed Witowski, and to a lesser extent Daley, we could have just thrown more money at AA and had him signed sooner. That couldnt be farther from reality. The organization gave him an evaluation of 1.9 for 2 years. That evaluation doesnt change whether we have 0 cap space or 9 million in cap space. Youre arguing that Holland throws too much money at certain players, but then you also suggest throwing money at AA. Its a contradiction. Im happy with the way this worked out. AA has another season now to prove hes worth what he wants. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted October 21, 2017 38 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Read Smiths post about apples and oranges. There seems to be an underlying thought that if we hadnt signed Witowski, and to a lesser extent Daley, we could have just thrown more money at AA and had him signed sooner. That couldnt be farther from reality. The organization gave him an evaluation of 1.9 for 2 years. That evaluation doesnt change whether we have 0 cap space or 9 million in cap space. Youre arguing that Holland throws too much money at certain players, but then you also suggest throwing money at AA. Its a contradiction. Im happy with the way this worked out. AA has another season now to prove hes worth what he wants. I'm happy he's signed as well. I just think you should make your in house deals a priority over UFAs like Witkowski. Not saying just throw cash at him, cause he wouldn't have had to. I don't recall exactly how much AA wanted, but it wasn't much more than Holland's two year offer. Deal could have been settled in the middle of that probably (around 250k?) had he given a bit of leeway, and would have given AA the impression that he was valued by the team and had him on the opening night roster. There's a difference between throwing multi millions at outside UFAs like Nielson, and giving 250-500K extra to a promising young player you drafted and should value. Especially when you SHOULD be rebuilding. But anyways, deal done. If he shows up to play and produces, he'll earn more in the offseason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, chaps80 said: The original trade was for a defenseman. Forget the name, but he's a former tenth overall pick that never worked out for the Pens. His cap hit is under $1 million. Maybe change of scenery could work out? Pouliot was the defenseman that was rumored to be part of the trade for Sheahan. He was traded to VAN for Andrey Pedan (Minor league Dman) and a 4th rounder in 2018. https://www.nhl.com/news/pittsburgh-trades-derrick-pouliot-to-canucks/c-291535724 Edited October 21, 2017 by e_prime 2 krsmith17 and PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted October 21, 2017 51 minutes ago, e_prime said: Pouliot was the defenseman that was rumored to be part of the trade for Sheahan. He was traded to VAN for Andrey Pedan (Minor league Dman) and a 4th rounder in 2018. https://www.nhl.com/news/pittsburgh-trades-derrick-pouliot-to-canucks/c-291535724 Yeah, that was the name. Ahh well, take what ya can get for Sheahan if they see something in him. He doesn't do anything in Detroit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted October 21, 2017 So if you're wondering why KH plays hardball with guys like AA, but seems to "bend over" for guys like Abby or Helm; that's easy, because he can! AA was an RFA. Holland risks nothing by not signing him quickly. AA is not an UFA, he cannot sign somewhere else. Holland doesn't have to pay AA's asking price if he feels its too high. He doesn't risk losing him for nothing by not signing him, therefore there was no urgency to get it done. Guys like Helm were set to become UFAs when their contract was up. If Holland didn't sign them, he risks them signing somewhere else and losing them for nothing. That gives pending UFAs more leverage. More leverage = more money. So even if AA points to guys like Abby or Helm and says "look what they're making!", its irrelevant. Holland can just point back at them and say "UFA leverage." And if you want to criticize the money, remember that if Abby or Helm were allowed to reach unrestricted free agency, someone other than Holland would have "overpaid" them. And he would have lost them for nothing. Therefore the urgency to "get it done" was much higher and the increased leverage on the part of the players led to Holland paying more. Hindsight is 20/20 and its easy to say "then Holland should have let them walk and let someone else overpay." And I would agree with you. Both Abby and Helm's deals were a gamble. And Holland lost on both of those deals. It happens. Let's just say I wouldn't give Kenny any of my money to take to Firekeepers. Its fair to criticize KH for those deals, but he played the AA deal perfectly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MileHighWingsGuy 178 Report post Posted October 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: So if you're wondering why KH plays hardball with guys like AA, but seems to "bend over" for guys like Abby or Helm; that's easy, because he can! AA was an RFA. Holland risks nothing by not signing him quickly. AA is not an UFA, he cannot sign somewhere else. Holland doesn't have to pay AA's asking price if he feels its too high. He doesn't risk losing him for nothing by not signing him, therefore there was no urgency to get it done. Guys like Helm were set to become UFAs when their contract was up. If Holland didn't sign them, he risks them signing somewhere else and losing them for nothing. That gives pending UFAs more leverage. More leverage = more money. So even if AA points to guys like Abby or Helm and says "look what they're making!", its irrelevant. Holland can just point back at them and say "UFA leverage." And if you want to criticize the money, remember that if Abby or Helm were allowed to reach unrestricted free agency, someone other than Holland would have "overpaid" them. And he would have lost them for nothing. Therefore the urgency to "get it done" was much higher and the increased leverage on the part of the players led to Holland paying more. Hindsight is 20/20 and its easy to say "then Holland should have let them walk and let someone else overpay." And I would agree with you. Both Abby and Helm's deals were a gamble. And Holland lost on both of those deals. It happens. Let's just say I wouldn't give Kenny any of my money to take to Firekeepers. Its fair to criticize KH for those deals, but he played the AA deal perfectly. Yeah we know how it works. Piss off the young kids that are your building blocks of the future because you can. Overspend on worthless vets cause they have leverage 2 The Datsyukian Deke and chaps80 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MileHighWingsGuy said: Yeah we know how it works. Piss off the young kids that are your building blocks of the future because you can. Overspend on worthless vets cause they have leverage It is what it is, this is a result of the RFA/UFA system created by the NHL & NHLPA with the current CBA. You can blame Holland for a lot of things, but his tactics in RFA negotiations should not be one of them. It's crazy how people just have their anti-Holland goggles on and refuse to look at the facts, and instead react purely on emotion. Edited October 21, 2017 by kliq 4 TheXym, ChristopherReevesLegs, Dabura and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted October 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, MileHighWingsGuy said: Yeah we know how it works. Piss off the young kids that are your building blocks of the future because you can. Overspend on worthless vets cause they have leverage If you want to argue that Holland should have signed him sooner because AA was worth what he was asking, that's a legit argument. But if you are saying that Kenny should just give in to AA's demands so that he doesn't hurt his feelings, I disagree. I would rather "piss off" a young kid than overpay him. Vet or kid, UFA or RFA, there is no excuse for Holland to overpay anyone. I am not defending him for overpaying vets, neither Abby or Helm are worth those deals. Its a negotiation, Holland does better when he has more leverage. Not going to criticize someone for getting the best deal for their side, agent or GM. If a cashier screws up and gives me back 10 dollars more in change than they're supposed to, does that mean that everyone in line behind me should expect the same? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, MileHighWingsGuy said: Yeah we know how it works. Piss off the young kids that are your building blocks of the future because you can. Steve Yzerman says hi. Drouin gives you a nod. ———- Does AA get the ful $1.38 mill or does he lose money because he missed games Edited October 21, 2017 by kickazz 1 1 Jonas Mahonas and amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted October 21, 2017 30 minutes ago, kickazz said: Steve Yzerman says hi. Drouin gives you a nod. ———- Does AA get the ful $1.38 mill or does he lose money because he missed games I assume the 1.38 number is what the cap hit will be, meaning its technically 1.5 or something, brought down to that. But thats just a guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites