• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

HockeytownRules19

Athanasiou Signed 1 year $1.4 mil

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

While I'm obviously not happy with our current cap situation, I am happy that Holland is standing his ground in regards to AA using the KHL as leverage in negotiations. If Holland were to cave and pay AA 3mil per because a KHL team offered the same, he would be setting an awful precedent.

I know some like to complain and go with the narrative "AA should ask for more money, look at what Abby/Helm etc. got!!!!!!!!!" but Holland overpaying UFA's doesn't mean he should also overpay RFA's. If anything, hopefully this teaches him a lesson and he doesnt overpay UFA's moving forward.

We're not going to be contenders this year, so if he wants to walk, let him walk. We retain his rights anyways and I highly doubt he spends his entire career in the KHL. Or, trade him for a D-man along with a 1st which is what I have wanted for a while.

Edited by kliq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, kliq said:

While I'm obviously not happy with our current cap situation, I am happy that Holland is standing his ground in regards to AA using the KHL as leverage in negotiations. If Holland were to cave and pay AA 3mil per because a KHL team offered the same, he would be setting an awful precedent.

I know some like to complain and go with the narrative "AA should ask for more money, look at what Abby/Helm etc. got!!!!!!!!!" but Holland overpaying UFA's doesn't mean he should also overpay RFA's. If anything, hopefully this teaches him a lesson and he doesnt overpay UFA's moving forward.

We're not going to be contenders this year, so if he wants to walk, let him walk. We retain his rights anyways and I highly doubt he spends his entire career in the KHL. Or, trade him for a D-man along with a 1st which is what I have wanted for a while.

This precedent has been set long before that ship has sailed. It's not about AA being worth the asking price or not it' about not thinking ahead when signing veterans to unmovable deals, period. What's next Mantha and Larkin getting lowballed?

When you are a team that's almost guaranteed a top pick you don't trade your first round pick and nobody is going to offer a top 4 dman for AA. 

AA can come back and ask for a trade so the Wings return would be even less that's the reality. Getting worked up over this stuff is useless but everyone saw it coming and it's just another reason why this franchise needs people from the outside starting next year 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

This precedent has been set long before that ship has sailed. It's not about AA being worth the asking price or not it' about not thinking ahead when signing veterans to unmovable deals, period. What's next Mantha and Larkin getting lowballed?

When you are a team that's almost guaranteed a top pick you don't trade your first round pick and nobody is going to offer a top 4 dman for AA. 

AA can come back and ask for a trade so the Wings return would be even less that's the reality. Getting worked up over this stuff is useless but everyone saw it coming and it's just another reason why this franchise needs people from the outside starting next year 

Before I respond Frank, let me say welcome back. As much as I often disagree with you, it's nice to hear different perspectives from people who are not just trolling.

With that being said, what do you mean that precedent has been set? Holland has a history of signing RFA's to good contracts. Bad contracts given to your UFA's are not the same thing. But lets just pretend it does for conversation sake, why would making another mistake be the solution here? 3mil to AA because he got an offer from the KHL will make things worse for us especially with Mantha and Larkin due next season. And no that doesnt mean "lowball them" it means pay them market value which is why I agree with @PavelValerievichDatsyuk and say we offer him around 2.1.

I dont think we are even close to being "guaranteed" the top pick, we are not as bad as people on here like to say we are. But again, lets just pretend we are for conversation sake, odds are not what they used to be. Look at the Avs, they had one of the worst seasons a team has had in a long time and they got 4th last year, Philly just missed the playoffs and they got 2nd. It's a lottery.

I never said trade AA for a top 4 d-man, so Im not going to argue that. What I want is to trade AA and the first which could be anywhere from the 1st pick to 15th pick for a #1 d-man. Sure we could get the lottery pick, but realistically we are going to pick likely somewhere between 6-12 just based on the odds. Lets use the "chance" of the lottery to leverage a team to trade us a stud on the blue-line. 

So our of curiosity, what is your stance on AA? Do you say pay him 3mil? Or are you saying let him walk? Forget who are GM is, if it was your call, what would you do?

Edited by kliq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, kliq said:

Before I respond Frank, let me say welcome back. As much as I often disagree with you, it's nice to hear different perspectives from people who are not just trolling.

With that being said, what do you mean that precedent has been set? Holland has a history of signing RFA's to good contracts. Bad contracts given to your UFA's are not the same thing. But lets just pretend it does for conversation sake, why would making another mistake be the solution here? 3mil to AA because he got an offer from the KHL will make things worse for us especially with Mantha and Larkin due next season. And no that doesnt mean "lowball them" it means pay them market value which is why I agree with @PavelValerievichDatsyuk and say we offer him around 2.1.

I dont think we are even close to being "guaranteed" the top pick, we are not as bad as people on here like to say we are. But again, lets just pretend we are for conversation sake, odds are not what they used to be. Look at the Avs, they had one of the worst seasons a team has had in a long time and they got 4th last year, Philly just missed the playoffs and they got 2nd. It's a lottery.

I never said trade AA for a top 4 d-man, so Im not going to argue that. What I want is to trade AA and the first which could be anywhere from the 1st pick to 15th pick for a #1 d-man. Sure we could get the lottery pick, but realistically we are going to pick likely somewhere between 6-12 just based on the odds. Lets use the "chance" of the lottery to leverage a team to trade us a stud on the blue-line. 

So our of curiosity, what is your stance on AA? Do you say pay him 3mil? Or are you saying let him walk? Forget who are GM is, if it was your call, what would you do?

First off thank you still getting used to the new design of the site liked the old one much better and found it easy to handle. 

By precedent being set I meant the RFA market like everything else in this league is changing and front offices need to keep that in mind that's not just on the GM it's GM, AGM and whatever job description a cap guru has. 

There is no guarantee to land the top pick but the Wings should be one of the teams with the highest odds to land Dahlin and if that fails at least get the 4 overall. 

If I'm the GM with the roster right now I'd be looking for getting a good pick for him instead of losing AA to the KHL for nothing and then going through this again. That being said I would also work my butt of to get rid of vets in order to retain Larkin and Mantha. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take it from the positive side.

With AA missing and Witkowski&Booth signed, we´re for sure aiming on 2018 top 3 draft position whether you want or not, it´s going to be good old times rivalry with Avs! AA will get top minutes in AK Bars and could boost a little bit for next year assignment. 

Couple last years I´m just guessing, if it could be worst and every single year I´m surprised, that yes, they can do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, kliq said:

What I want is to trade AA and the first which could be anywhere from the 1st pick to 15th pick for a #1 d-man.

If we're talking about an established 1D, that probably wouldn't be enough, even if it's a really high pick. The trade value of your standard 1D is crazy-high right now. I'm pretty sure AA's trade value is not especially high right now.

Said it before and I'll say it again: we should be looking at young, hight-potential defensemen like Haydn Fleury. (Maybe that's what you're saying. If so, my bad.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

The relationship is only bitter while Holland and Blashill are here. That being said, $1.9M is a helluva raise from $600k. Do it for 2 years until more cap is available. Sounds easy, but I'm sure it's not.

Seriously if my company offered me 3x my current salary for 2 years and knowing I can get more down the line I would probably grab the offer and run with it!  I know the "system" know if I get hurt I am getting top notch care etc etc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really hope AA is just playing hard ball and won't really bolt for KHL. He's one of the few guys on our team with real upside. Just pay him close to what he's asking and work out a deal to get under the cap. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, kliq said:

While I'm obviously not happy with our current cap situation, I am happy that Holland is standing his ground in regards to AA using the KHL as leverage in negotiations. If Holland were to cave and pay AA 3mil per because a KHL team offered the same, he would be setting an awful precedent.

I know some like to complain and go with the narrative "AA should ask for more money, look at what Abby/Helm etc. got!!!!!!!!!" but Holland overpaying UFA's doesn't mean he should also overpay RFA's. If anything, hopefully this teaches him a lesson and he doesnt overpay UFA's moving forward.

We're not going to be contenders this year, so if he wants to walk, let him walk. We retain his rights anyways and I highly doubt he spends his entire career in the KHL. Or, trade him for a D-man along with a 1st which is what I have wanted for a while.

I've been silent on the Wings for a while, because its been making me depressed. But I'll throw in my 2 cents worth now. AA was probably (aside from Z and the occasional flash of excellence from Mantha) the only decent thing about the Wings worth watching last season. 

Tbh, a lot of us are making out to be all about money, but frankly, I'd have to say that that probably isn't the main issue. I've got to think its Blashill and playing time. Remember how he was basically benched in the playoffs two years ago for defensive wonderforward Andersson, who ended up playing basically 3 minutes a night?

How many times has AA been called out publicly by Blashill, and limited his minutes? He can go to the KHL, play with Pavel, get really good minutes and earn extra money. You don't have to be a big league scout to tell this kid has talent, and last season especially started to show a scoring touch that could make him a future 2nd line winger. 

The real issue is management - they clearly don't care about building a winner, it's more about making money it seems at this point. And that's the sad part to me, because we shouldn't really be in this mess right now. Take the Daley signing, why? What worth is it having a veteran 3rd pairing D man (at best?) clogging up cap space (which we could have used for flexibility for signing AA) and a roster spot that we could just give to Jensen, or Russo and actually see what these kids have at the big league level. 

I have been fortunate enough to be following the wings since the mid 90's and wasn't alive during the dead era. But if this s*** keeps up, I can't see how we don't sink into a deep depression for the next decade, because Holland and co's policy of signing veteran plugs, and demeaning our young talent into repression is going to keep us at the bottom of the standings for quite some time.

Sorry for the negativity folks, I ofc want to see the Wings succeed and thrive. But I just don't think KH and co have what it takes to actually do that. It's like they can't see the wood from the ******* trees....

 

 

Edited by wings4thecup06

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dabura said:

If we're talking about an established 1D, that probably wouldn't be enough, even if it's a really high pick. The trade value of your standard 1D is crazy-high right now. I'm pretty sure AA's trade value is not especially high right now.

Said it before and I'll say it again: we should be looking at young, hight-potential defensemen like Haydn Fleury. (Maybe that's what you're saying. If so, my bad.)

Or maybe Jake Bean?... :tounge2:

I think that is what kliq was referring to though. Maybe not a prospect like you and I are talking about, but a youngish up and coming defenseman that may be slotted on the 2nd / 3rd pair, but has the potential to be a number one, like a Trouba or Theodore. I'd be okay with going hard after any of these guys, but of course we won't because trades are hard...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, wings4thecup06 said:

I've been silent on the Wings for a while, because its been making me depressed. But I'll throw in my 2 cents worth now. AA was probably (aside from Z and the occasional flash of excellence from Mantha) the only decent thing about the Wings worth watching last season. 

Tbh, a lot of us are making out to be all about money, but frankly, I'd have to say that that probably isn't the main issue. I've got to think its Blashill and playing time. Remember how he was basically benched in the playoffs two years ago for defensive wonderforward Andersson, who ended up playing basically 3 minutes a night?

How many times has AA been called out publicly by Blashill, and limited his minutes? He can go to the KHL, play with Pavel, get really good minutes and earn extra money. You don't have to be a big league scout to tell this kid has talent, and last season especially started to show a scoring touch that could make him a future 2nd line winger. 

The real issue is management - they clearly don't care about building a winner, it's more about making money it seems at this point. And that's the sad part to me, because we shouldn't really be in this mess right now. Take the Daley signing, why? What worth is it having a veteran 3rd pairing D man (at best?) clogging up cap space (which we could have used for flexibility for signing AA) and a roster spot that we could just give to Jensen, or Russo and actually see what these kids have at the big league level. 

I have been fortunate enough to be following the wings since the mid 90's and wasn't alive during the dead era. But if this s*** keeps up, I can't see how we don't sink into a deep depression for the next decade, because Holland and co's policy of signing veteran plugs, and demeaning our young talent into repression is going to keep us at the bottom of the standings for quite some time.

Sorry for the negativity folks, I ofc want to see the Wings succeed and thrive. But I just don't think KH and co have what it takes to actually do that. It's like they can't see the wood from the ******* trees....

I wasn't a fan of the Daley signing either, it made no sense to me. We already had too many defensemen signed and we didn't have the cap space. However I think you're selling Daley short if you think he's a 3rd pair at best. I'd say at this stage of his career, he's a very good 2nd pair defenseman. He's on a great contract, just not a great fit where this team is at right now.

Also, Jensen is on the roster and will likely be in the lineup every night, assuming he doesn't royally f*** up or get injured. Russo didn't impress me much, and I'd much prefer to have Ouellet and / or Sproul in the lineup over him.

I agree with pretty much everything else though. Holland and company definitely haven't done themselves any favors with all the bad signings over the years. It's finally starting to bite them in the a**. We desperately need to made some trades to bring some young talent and offload some bad contracts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Or maybe Jake Bean?... :tounge2:

I think that is what kliq was referring to though. Maybe not a prospect like you and I are talking about, but a youngish up and coming defenseman that may be slotted on the 2nd / 3rd pair, but has the potential to be a number one, like a Trouba or Theodore. I'd be okay with going hard after any of these guys, but of course we won't because trades are hard...

I'd be A-OK with Bean. :tounge:

Here's the thing: I think it pretty much has to be a mostly unproven prospect/youngster. Trouba isn't an established 1D, but, even so, he'd probably cost more than AA + 1st. Because GMs covet young high-end NHL defensemen that much. Oscar Klefbom isn't necessarily an all-star franchise defenseman, but the Oilers are flat-out not going to trade him at this time. My understanding is Vegas has pretty much zero interest in moving Shea Theodore at this time. We can go down the list... :no:

You and I are both in agreement here, I think. I'm just sayin'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Dabura said:

We can go down the list...

I was guessing about Sanheim from Philly.. .isn´t worthy AA+1st NOW, but has huge upside and they have some other guys in backlog. 

But it seems we´re going for Dahlin for free 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, kliq said:

While I'm obviously not happy with our current cap situation, I am happy that Holland is standing his ground in regards to AA using the KHL as leverage in negotiations. If Holland were to cave and pay AA 3mil per because a KHL team offered the same, he would be setting an awful precedent.

I know some like to complain and go with the narrative "AA should ask for more money, look at what Abby/Helm etc. got!!!!!!!!!" but Holland overpaying UFA's doesn't mean he should also overpay RFA's. If anything, hopefully this teaches him a lesson and he doesnt overpay UFA's moving forward.

We're not going to be contenders this year, so if he wants to walk, let him walk. We retain his rights anyways and I highly doubt he spends his entire career in the KHL. Or, trade him for a D-man along with a 1st which is what I have wanted for a while.

I definitely agree that I think it’d be nuts to buckle to the KHL prices and I don’t think anyone wants that. My point is that we shouldn’t be having this conversation. Had Holland been doing his whole job and thinking long term, we wouldn’t have to be here in this situation. This would’ve been buttoned up awhile ago with much less drama. You think any of this looks good for the Wings in any way? This is simply another part of the big picture of a crumbling empire with poor leadership.

There are too many important parts to the job to completely flounder at so many of them year after year. I used to think Holland was merely a bit washed up and unmotivated and perhaps too sentimental. At this point, I’m honestly starting to think he’s truly in over his head in the cap era. He consistently hasn’t been able to get the job done well since he started having to deal with the real ramifications of the salary cap era. Our current cap situation combined with years and years of stagnation and countless bad contracts before our current ones is evidence of a GM who doesn’t know how to effectively do their job anymore. This didn’t happen overnight, but signs of problems have been there for years and it keeps snowballing.

This team needs fresh thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I guess I would rather take a paycut and boost my NHL stats then have a gap during my NHL career. 

But these godam millenials are lazy and care more about easy money.

Indeed.

2 year deal seems good for both sides.

I'm wondering how Kronwalls'  knee feels? Maybe place him on IR for a bit to sneak AA under the cap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Juklitz said:

I was guessing about Sanheim from Philly.. .isn´t worthy AA+1st NOW, but has huge upside and they have some other guys in backlog. 

But it seems we´re going for Dahlin for free

Yeah, I'd put Sanheim in the Bean-Fleury category. Though, I think Sanheim's more valuable to Philly than Bean or Fleury is to Carolina. The Flyers have several really promising young defensemen in their system, but only one one of them is a more-or-less proven NHL stud at this time (Gostisbehere). The Hurricanes have a pretty deep NHL blue line led by a legit 1D in Faulk, so, in theory, they can comfortably afford to part with Bean/Fleury.

But, yeah, we probably won't be trading for That Guy, whether he's an established top-three guy or a promising prospect. When we do finally get that studly top-pairing NHL defenseman, he's probably going to be a homegrown talent -- i.e. we're gonna have to draft and develop our way out of this mess. If only because, as krsmith noted, trades are hard. So very, very hard.

#FreeFallin'4Dahlin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

I definitely agree that I think it’d be nuts to buckle to the KHL prices and I don’t think anyone wants that. My point is that we shouldn’t be having this conversation. Had Holland been doing his whole job and thinking long term, we wouldn’t have to be here in this situation. This would’ve been buttoned up awhile ago with much less drama. You think any of this looks good for the Wings in any way? This is simply another part of the big picture of a crumbling empire with poor leadership.

There are too many important parts to the job to completely flounder at so many of them year after year. I used to think Holland was merely a bit washed up and unmotivated and perhaps too sentimental. At this point, I’m honestly starting to think he’s truly in over his head in the cap era. He consistently hasn’t been able to get the job done well since he started having to deal with the real ramifications of the salary cap era. Our current cap situation combined with years and years of stagnation and countless bad contracts before our current ones is evidence of a GM who doesn’t know how to effectively do their job anymore. This didn’t happen overnight, but signs of problems have been there for years and it keeps snowballing.

This team needs fresh thinking.

I agree, but I really would like to know how AA feels about Blashill's treatment of him. And I'd like to think that's playing a much bigger part than the money....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, wings4thecup06 said:

I've been silent on the Wings for a while, because its been making me depressed. But I'll throw in my 2 cents worth now. AA was probably (aside from Z and the occasional flash of excellence from Mantha) the only decent thing about the Wings worth watching last season. 

Tbh, a lot of us are making out to be all about money, but frankly, I'd have to say that that probably isn't the main issue. I've got to think its Blashill and playing time. Remember how he was basically benched in the playoffs two years ago for defensive wonderforward Andersson, who ended up playing basically 3 minutes a night?

How many times has AA been called out publicly by Blashill, and limited his minutes? He can go to the KHL, play with Pavel, get really good minutes and earn extra money. You don't have to be a big league scout to tell this kid has talent, and last season especially started to show a scoring touch that could make him a future 2nd line winger. 

The real issue is management - they clearly don't care about building a winner, it's more about making money it seems at this point. And that's the sad part to me, because we shouldn't really be in this mess right now. Take the Daley signing, why? What worth is it having a veteran 3rd pairing D man (at best?) clogging up cap space (which we could have used for flexibility for signing AA) and a roster spot that we could just give to Jensen, or Russo and actually see what these kids have at the big league level. 

I have been fortunate enough to be following the wings since the mid 90's and wasn't alive during the dead era. But if this s*** keeps up, I can't see how we don't sink into a deep depression for the next decade, because Holland and co's policy of signing veteran plugs, and demeaning our young talent into repression is going to keep us at the bottom of the standings for quite some time.

Sorry for the negativity folks, I ofc want to see the Wings succeed and thrive. But I just don't think KH and co have what it takes to actually do that. It's like they can't see the wood from the ******* trees....

 

 

See that's why it's better to focus on the positive things like the best draft pick since years, the chance to pick Dahlin in order to kick off the real rebuild. 

Looking at it this way is much better than getting depressed with the current office. 

AA has the chance to play with Pasha learn from him and make more money while doing so ad the Olympics and the decision is even easier. 

Young blood is needed from top to botrom in this organization. Hopefully it happens next year 

Edited by frankgrimes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, frankgrimes said:

See that's why it's better to focus on the positive things like the best draft pick since years, the chance to pick Dahlin in order to kick off the real rebuild. 

Looking at it this way is much better than getting depressed with the current office. 

AA has the chance to play with Pasha learn from him and make more money while doing so ad the Olympics and the decision is even easier. 

I know, and I totally agree, but I just can't help but feel s*** about the way KH has made questionable decision after questionable decision and now we're here, and lets face it, unless they get rid of blashill and actually commit to rebuilding the right way, these kids are going to have their growth stunted, and those high picks will go for naught. Apologies for the negativity, again, but it just makes me angry, and I've spent most of my summer angry at the Wings management for their blind ignorance....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, wings4thecup06 said:

I agree, but I really would like to know how AA feels about Blashill's treatment of him. And I'd like to think that's playing a much bigger part than the money....

Big or small part, by no means can it help. I don’t think AA would be thinking so seriously about the KHL if he was getting more playing time and he felt that the team had his back more. Between Blashills use of him and Holland’s negligence, he clearly must not feel like a priority to the Wings.

Why shouldn’t he at least consider going for the money, the Olympics, and extra minutes?

I think if most people here translated the situation to a context they could relate to more in their personal lives, they’d be more understanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, wings4thecup06 said:

I know, and I totally agree, but I just can't help but feel s*** about the way KH has made questionable decision after questionable decision and now we're here, and lets face it, unless they get rid of blashill and actually commit to rebuilding the right way, these kids are going to have their growth stunted, and those high picks will go for naught. Apologies for the negativity, again, but it just makes me angry, and I've spent most of my summer angry at the Wings management for their blind ignorance....

Very justified and understandable. I think KH and JB are a package deal because both are in the last year of their contracts.

I'm sure Larkin and Mantha are watching closely 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, wings4thecup06 said:

I know, and I totally agree, but I just can't help but feel s*** about the way KH has made questionable decision after questionable decision and now we're here, and lets face it, unless they get rid of blashill and actually commit to rebuilding the right way, these kids are going to have their growth stunted, and those high picks will go for naught. Apologies for the negativity, again, but it just makes me angry, and I've spent most of my summer angry at the Wings management for their blind ignorance....

And this is another part that I don’t think all are considering. We’re not going to get the best out of our kids if we run the team like we do. And the kids would do well to have some solid veterans on the team that aren’t on the verge of retiring, and the way things are going now, we’re in no position to land anyone. We don’t have the money, we don’t have the assets, and we’ve long sinc destroyed our reputation as a destination club. There are so many problems that have been neglected or dealt with poorly over the last 6-7 years in particular, and I really don’t see Holland pulling us out of this nosedive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

Big or small part, by no means can it help. I don’t think AA would be thinking so seriously about the KHL if he was getting more playing time and he felt that the team had his back more. Between Blashills use of him and Holland’s negligence, he clearly must not feel like a priority to the Wings.

Why shouldn’t he at least consider going for the money, the Olympics, and extra minutes?

I think if most people here translated the situation to a context they could relate to more in their personal lives, they’d be more understanding.

And I agree, I totally get AA's perspective. He's young, talented, the world is his oyster. He probably looks up and sees all these equally talented young stars starting to get signed to good deals that pay them well and thinks why can't i get some too? I mean, a legitimate move to russia where he doesn't speak the language, everything is completely different is only really something for the bold hearted, so like you said, for him to genuinely consider it, things can't be all right and rosy in Detroit. I hope he stays, and we work this out, but it's almost like this is the last straw for me for Holland if he leaves. 

And I guess the counter argument about KH playing hardball and not offering the money? Why are we in this situation with AA? Is it his ego? Or is it because he's not getting the opportunity that many here feel he's deserved of? Or is it KH's flat refusal to allow the young players to legitimately take over the team, sink or swim, and still sign stupid veterans to contracts that just don't make sense and eat cap space. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now