Pre-Season Games

[Jacksoni 418]

Thanks, gave me food for thought. I usually prefer smaller arenas (and make sure I go to bathroom well before the game) but judging from your answer it might be worth attending a regular season matchup this season. Lower bowl broadside and a division rival should be a good combination, I'll start checking the Montreal and Toronto home games for decent seats.

[Buppy 1,720]

16 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

We have left-handed shooters. To run a successful power-play, you need options on both sides of the ice. Something we've lacked for years. Frk has a cannon of a shot, and if utilized properly (the way he was tonight), there's not a doubt in my mind, he would improve our power-play. Whether that's by getting shots through (scoring goals), or just opening up more space for other players on the ice. If he can score some goals on that left side, opponents will have to respect the shot and have tighter coverage on that side of the ice, opening up more space on the right side. He's not a one trick pony like Pulkkinen either. Frk can set up plays, skate, play physical. The guy deserves a shot.

A RH shot is nice to have, but you are greatly exaggerating the benefits, especially in reference to a borderline player like Frk.

If you recall, we started last season with Vanek....far, far, far better than any reasonable hope for Frk...and the PP was the worst we've had in 30 years, then fared pretty well at the end of the year without Vanek (or any RH shot). 12-13 we had Brunner, PP was below average. 13-14 we had Alfie, PP was below average. 14-15 all we had was rookie Pulk for 1/3 of a season, with a whopping 1 PPG and the PP was actually good, then back to below average the next year with still just some occasional Pulk. All of those players are as good as or better than what we should expect from Frk. Again, I contend that our shooters have not been our problem on the PP (at least not to a degree that Frk could be considered the solution). There is absolutely nothing even remotely close to special about him; no reason to think he would have some great impact when those other players didn't.

And before you bother to respond with the 'I'm just saying give him a shot' angle; that isn't what I'm arguing against. I'm saying lack of a RH shot isn't our problem.The problems we have are with effectively setting up any kind of coherent attack...exactly the kind of problems that would prevent us from "utilizing him properly". If we could find the ability to do that, the PP would improve even without him (or any RH shot). Depending on what players are healthy (and signed), probably even better without him.

So sure, try him out while some guys are missing. No harm in it. But we shouldn't be thinking "great things might happen" because he did something nice once against a prospect roster in a preseason game.

 

 

[kickazz 5,459]

Empty Netterberg, I mean Henrik Zetterberg still injured for tonights game looks like. 

[Juklitz 85]

6 hours ago, Buppy said:

The problems we have are with effectively setting up any kind of coherent attack...exactly the kind of problems that would prevent us from "utilizing him properly".

Nielsen: "(...) if teams realize that shot he's got, it's going to open up so much more room in the slot or down low."

Everybody knows Ovechnik and his one-timer and nearly every single pp he´s on his own island. 

I believe it´s really that needed combination of coherent attack (which we don´t have at all, our power play units spend most of the time just by entering the zone) AND some cannon guy like Frk. No shooter? PK could just keep hunting the puck around and there´s 70% probablility, that our blue line D will fail to pass. 

It was the same with Pulkkinen. Goal was just to cover him and rest of the squad was not able to figure out anything. The same works for Gostisbehere and predictable Flyers power-play. 

What we actually need to utilize Frk and keep the pressure coherent is high-inteligent D with some shot, I hope Blashill will try Jensen couple times on PP (not saying he´s the same level, but take an example of Pietrangelo and his blue line radar). 

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, Buppy said:

A RH shot is nice to have, but you are greatly exaggerating the benefits, especially in reference to a borderline player like Frk.

If you recall, we started last season with Vanek....far, far, far better than any reasonable hope for Frk...and the PP was the worst we've had in 30 years, then fared pretty well at the end of the year without Vanek (or any RH shot). 12-13 we had Brunner, PP was below average. 13-14 we had Alfie, PP was below average. 14-15 all we had was rookie Pulk for 1/3 of a season, with a whopping 1 PPG and the PP was actually good, then back to below average the next year with still just some occasional Pulk. All of those players are as good as or better than what we should expect from Frk. Again, I contend that our shooters have not been our problem on the PP (at least not to a degree that Frk could be considered the solution). There is absolutely nothing even remotely close to special about him; no reason to think he would have some great impact when those other players didn't.

And before you bother to respond with the 'I'm just saying give him a shot' angle; that isn't what I'm arguing against. I'm saying lack of a RH shot isn't our problem.The problems we have are with effectively setting up any kind of coherent attack...exactly the kind of problems that would prevent us from "utilizing him properly". If we could find the ability to do that, the PP would improve even without him (or any RH shot). Depending on what players are healthy (and signed), probably even better without him.

So sure, try him out while some guys are missing. No harm in it. But we shouldn't be thinking "great things might happen" because he did something nice once against a prospect roster in a preseason game.

Having both right-handed and left-handed shooters on their off wings in the offensive zone opens up better passing / shooting options to create scoring chances, especially on the power-play. That is a fact. Not exaggerated at all.

I agree that we have issues maintaining offensive zone pressure, but I think a bigger issue than that is our ability to effectively setup an umbrella with triggermen on both sides of the ice. The most effective power-plays in the league revolve around triggermen on their off wings. The Wings power-play has a strong (right) side and teams know this, and set up their penalty kill to press harder on that side.

Vanek was rarely used properly on the power-play in my opinion. He spent a lot of time down low and in front of the net, when he should have been positioned on the left half board. There's no point in having right-handed shooters on our power-play if we don't utilize them properly. If we could use the same setup as we did last game against Boston, with shooters opened up on both sides of the ice, I think our power would improve in a big way.

You can say what you like about Frk being borderline or below average, and I agree for the most part, but when you say that there is "absolutely nothing even remotely close to special about him, I strongly disagree. He has a very "special" shot. Many (coaches, players) have said that it is the hardest shot they've ever seen. His issue was always accuracy, and that has drastically improved over the past year.

You don't think Frk or any right-handed shooters would improve a bottom 5 power-play. I strongly disagree, assuming they would be used properly...

 

[amato 3,210]

On 9/23/2017 at 10:11 PM, krsmith17 said:

I know right? Opponents fear the LCA! 

If ya can’t stand the heat, get out of the oven!  

[Dabura 12,207]

Tonight's lineup:

Tatar  Rasmussen  Nyquist
Mantha  Larkin  Frk
Street  Glendening  Witkowski
Lorito  Holmstrom  Sadowy

Ouellet  Sproul
Cholowski  McIlrath
Hicketts  Russo

Howard
McCollum

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Tonight's lineup:

...

Really like those top two lines. Awesome to see Sproul is ready to go. Hopefully he's 100% and can earn a spot in the lineup (doubtful)... Excited to see if what Hicketts can do again tonight.

[Juklitz 85]

Hope Sproul / Hicketts will emerge, while I didn´t like XO last game with Bruins and Big E was clearly on AHL level... 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

That Cholo - Big Dylan combo gonn be nice

[krsmith17 7,191]

Rasmussen!

[krsmith17 7,191]

Mantha! Boys driving the net.

[BinMucker94 302]

Wow Tatar top cheddar

[8 Legged RedWing 367]

Not sure if it's been said already but what's up with that goal horn? It sounds muffled on TV. I don't like it. 

[Richdg 267]

Ummm.... Watching the game. Why is everyone so worried about Rasmussen? He has a goal. Screened/distracted the G for Tatars goal, and has provided Nyquist and Tatar several great passes that lead to them getting off good shots on net. Where are these supposed flaws? Yes he is 18. Yes it is preseason. But tonight he is one of top 4 or 5 F's on the ice. No the Pens are not playing their stars, but it is most of their 3 and 4th lines and 3/4 D pairs. In other words NHL players. Mantha and Larkin are clearly playing better then the line of Tatar, Nyquist, and Ras are playing great. Ras is providing more O tonight than Sheahan did Saturday night while playing with Tatar and Nyquist.

That being said. Yes he needs to get bigger and stronger. Just think what he will be at 20-21. 6-6/235 with skating ability, toughness, and SKILL! I love it!

[LeftWinger 4,958]

Why does the line of Mantha - Larkin - Frk look so Good? They played all last pre-season together too....looked just as good....then they waived Frk.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Fear the LCA!

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

2 hours ago, 8 Legged RedWing said:

Not sure if it's been said already but what's up with that goal horn? It sounds muffled on TV. I don't like it. 

Said it last game on here but apparently it’s a recording of a horn instead of an actual horn. I hope to god they get a real one.

[Buppy 1,720]

13 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Having both right-handed and left-handed shooters on their off wings in the offensive zone opens up better passing / shooting options to create scoring chances, especially on the power-play. That is a fact. Not exaggerated at all.

I agree that we have issues maintaining offensive zone pressure, but I think a bigger issue than that is our ability to effectively setup an umbrella with triggermen on both sides of the ice. The most effective power-plays in the league revolve around triggermen on their off wings. The Wings power-play has a strong (right) side and teams know this, and set up their penalty kill to press harder on that side.

Vanek was rarely used properly on the power-play in my opinion. He spent a lot of time down low and in front of the net, when he should have been positioned on the left half board. There's no point in having right-handed shooters on our power-play if we don't utilize them properly. If we could use the same setup as we did last game against Boston, with shooters opened up on both sides of the ice, I think our power would improve in a big way.

You can say what you like about Frk being borderline or below average, and I agree for the most part, but when you say that there is "absolutely nothing even remotely close to special about him, I strongly disagree. He has a very "special" shot. Many (coaches, players) have said that it is the hardest shot they've ever seen. His issue was always accuracy, and that has drastically improved over the past year.

You don't think Frk or any right-handed shooters would improve a bottom 5 power-play. I strongly disagree, assuming they would be used properly...

More of a simplistic generalization than a fact, really. Doesn't mean much outside the context of "all else being equal". If the goal was just to have optimal passing lanes, that'd be great. But the goal is to score, and that benefit could easily be negated by having an inferior player on the ice. If we were talking about Ovechkin, yeah, a real weapon like would have some impact. But there's no good reason to think Frk would garner the same respect or produce a similar result.

I would expect from Frk more or less what we saw with Pulk. Teams didn't respect him (despite an elite shot), so he didn't open up any space, and because defenses weren't paying him any special attention they were able to prevent the rest of the team from effectively getting him the puck, so they didn't need to respect him. Why would Frk be any different? He wasn't even that good a scorer in the AHL. 

You want to dismiss Vanek on the basis that he wasn't used properly, and keep adding that caveat to hedge your bets with Frk. But that has nothing to do with Frk, so all you're really saying is that our PP would be better if our PP was better. You're not offering anything specific to Frk as to why he would make us better. Just right-handedness, which for some reason doesn't count for any of the other RHs we've had. 

[Dabura 12,207]

I want to see a 1-3-1 with Frk on the left half-wall. I think Frk can help our power play, in theory. "But Vanek and Pulkkinen didn't help our power play." OK. So we try Frk now. And hopefully we make some adjustments to certain aspects of the PP and hopefully those adjustments pay off, regardless of whether Frk's on the team or not. Take Kronwall off the power play entirely and replace him with Daley. Put Nyquist back in the slot and keep him there. Etc.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Dabura

[Dabura 12,207]

Missed the game. Just watched the highlights. Power moves from Mantha and Rasmussen. I like.

We had the better lineup, same as the previous game against Boston. Still, it's nice to see us doing good things and handily winning the games we should be handily winning.

How did Cholowski and Hicketts look?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

34 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I want to see a 1-3-1 with Frk on the left half-wall. I think Frk can help our power play, in theory. "But Vanek and Pulkkinen didn't help our power play." OK. So we try Frk now. And hopefully we make some adjustments to certain aspects of the PP and hopefully those adjustments pay off, regardless of whether Frk's on the team or not. Take Kronwall off the power play entirely and replace him with Daley. Put Nyquist back in the slot and keep him there. Etc.

Vanek was not what was wrong with that powerplay. He was at times the only bright spot in it. 

[Dabura 12,207]

41 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Vanek was not what was wrong with that powerplay. He was at times the only bright spot in it. 

I was just providing the counterargument. "Vanek is better than Frk, and if the power play sucked with Vanek, expecting Frk to make a big difference is probably misplaced optimism. At the end of the day, the problem with the power play isn't the left half-wall. It's x, y, and z."

I think there are lots of things wrong with our power play, but I don't think it's wrong to feel Frk could, in theory, provide a spark and help move the needle in the right direction.

[BinMucker94 302]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

Missed the game. Just watched the highlights. Power moves from Mantha and Rasmussen. I like.

We had the better lineup, same as the previous game against Boston. Still, it's nice to see us doing good things and handily winning the games we should be handily winning.

How did Cholowski and Hicketts look?

In my opinion Chowlowski was the best defenseman on the ice. He plays with his head up and seems to gain confidence every game. He's smooth and poised with the puck. Picks good times to join the offense and always gets back defensively. I know he's supposed to go to jrs after this but the way he's been playing the might be too easy for him. Maybe he'll be able to tear it up offensively there and gain even more confidence.

Hicketts was very good as well. His size means nothing to him. Kid will battle anyone. Also a solid skater and puck mover. Made a few mistakes but nothing too serious. 

I would honestly put these two kids on the Wings now over some of our options. I wouldn't want to hinder their development tho.

So far XO has been the biggest disappointment for me. I thought he was ready to have a breakout year. Heard he lost 15lbs and gained a step skating wise but those 15lbs must have been between the ears. He's made some really stupid choices with the puck and looks like a smaller version of E out there at times.

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, Buppy said:

More of a simplistic generalization than a fact, really. Doesn't mean much outside the context of "all else being equal". If the goal was just to have optimal passing lanes, that'd be great. But the goal is to score, and that benefit could easily be negated by having an inferior player on the ice. If we were talking about Ovechkin, yeah, a real weapon like would have some impact. But there's no good reason to think Frk would garner the same respect or produce a similar result.

I would expect from Frk more or less what we saw with Pulk. Teams didn't respect him (despite an elite shot), so he didn't open up any space, and because defenses weren't paying him any special attention they were able to prevent the rest of the team from effectively getting him the puck, so they didn't need to respect him. Why would Frk be any different? He wasn't even that good a scorer in the AHL. 

You want to dismiss Vanek on the basis that he wasn't used properly, and keep adding that caveat to hedge your bets with Frk. But that has nothing to do with Frk, so all you're really saying is that our PP would be better if our PP was better. You're not offering anything specific to Frk as to why he would make us better. Just right-handedness, which for some reason doesn't count for any of the other RHs we've had. 

The goal is to have optimal passing AND shooting lanes, which in turn gives you better scoring opportunities, which in theory would boost scoring... No one would claim that Frk would have the same effect on the power-play as a player like Ovechkin, but it's not unreasonable to think his shot could boost our power-play. Imagine me saying the same thing about Eaves a few years ago. You would have had the exact same lame argument. But guess what? Eaves is Dallas being used the same way I'm suggesting we use Frk, and it's working out quite well for them. Frk has a deadly shot, and it would only take a couple times of unloading that cannon before teams would start to take notice.

Nothing is going to change, unless we change our power-play set up, but it looks like we have somewhat early in the pre-season. If we stick with a power-play that revolves around shooters on both sides of the ice, I think Frk would be well served as one of our triggermen. Pulkkinen is smaller, weaker on the puck and a weaker skater. That's why he didn't make it here. I think the only legitimate comparison between the two, is their shot, other than that, they're completely different players. But speaking of Pulkkinen, he's scored two power-play goals with Vegas in two games in the exact same spot. Waiting on the left half boards for teammates to find him and unleash the shot. I realize it's just pre-season, and time and space will be cut in half in the regular season, but I think Frk would be capable in finding that time and space. Give him a shot.

I'm not saying Frk is the answer to our power-play woes, I'm just saying that he could help. I think he would. You don't. You're probably right. It's likely that players, coaches, and analysts are wrong...