Pre-Season Games

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 hours ago, Dabura said:

I was just providing the counterargument. "Vanek is better than Frk, and if the power play sucked with Vanek, expecting Frk to make a big difference is probably misplaced optimism. At the end of the day, the problem with the power play isn't the left half-wall. It's x, y, and z."

I think there are lots of things wrong with our power play, but I don't think it's wrong to feel Frk could, in theory, provide a spark and help move the needle in the right direction.

No, I agree with you. Vanek couldn't run the entire power play himself, and neither can Frk. There's some deeper issues there that need to be fixed.

However just having a hard RH shot in the lineup is a step in the right direction... even if that is just cycling Frk in for Vanek

[krsmith17 7,191]

Cholowski was assigned to Prince George of the WHL today. It was expected sooner or later, but I would have liked to see him play another game or two. Oh well, hopefully he dominates the W this season and helps the Griffins this spring.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

For all the heat Cholowski and Rasmussen have taken because "but but Holland different draft the guy I wanted!" both have looked really good in preseason.

Big Ras looked right in step last night. Not exceptionally fast, but more than kept up, sometimes skating faster than Nyquist and Tatar. Very responsible, excellent passing and shooting, very good net screening, and a little bit nasty in front of the goalie. Looks like a very composed and confident player.

Like Ras Cholowski looks calm and collected out there. Above average decision making. Smooth skating for a D-man. Will probably never be a flashy player, but does all the little things right like Lidstrom did. Real potential to be an anchor on the backend for us.

Frk has that nifty slapper, but he looks like sort of a blah one-dimensional player to me.

Other than those 3, nobody else has really made a big impression on me.

 

[Jacksoni 418]

Wasn't impressed overall despite the win last night. Howard looked ok to me, if anything good is asked of me. Sadowy and Street hardly seemed AHL ready last night. Back down they go.

Addon: Cholowski is more than AHL ready. Should be playing with the Griffins this season, bummer. He has that 'game slows down with the puck on his stick' trait. Hard to explain. But most offense starts there, with the first good leading pass. Will be keeping a big eye open on his progression.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Jacksoni

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Cholowski was assigned to Prince George of the WHL today. It was expected sooner or later, but I would have liked to see him play another game or two. Oh well, hopefully he dominates the W this season and helps the Griffins this spring.

I thought he would be going back to St. Cloud State like last year. Wonder why that change was made. Seems more talent comes from the CHL, though, so I think it's a good thing.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

50 minutes ago, Jacksoni said:

Wasn't impressed overall despite the win last night. Howard looked ok to me, if anything good is asked of me. Sadowy and Street hardly seemed AHL ready last night. Back down they go.

Addon: Cholowski is more than AHL ready. Should be playing with the Griffins this season, bummer. He has that 'game slows down with the puck on his stick' trait. Hard to explain. But most offense starts there, with the first good leading pass. Will be keeping a big eye open on his progression.

He's got a ton of poise and composure under pressure for such a young player. He just doesn't panic at all, so he's making the correct decisions. 

15 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

I thought he would be going back to St. Cloud State like last year. Wonder why that change was made. Seems more talent comes from the CHL, though, so I think it's a good thing.

I don't know all the details, but it sounded like he was just disappointed with his first college season and decided to make the change to juniors. As much as it's nice to see young guys commit to school, in the end it distracts from hockey, and if he really wants to be a professional hockey player I think this will be a good move for him. He will dominate juniors. 

[Vladiator 116]

On 9/20/2017 at 9:05 PM, ash11 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80OVegtrZ3M   enjoy man! and ahh I didn't know that, haha...thanks for the heads up

 

On 9/24/2017 at 5:01 PM, kliq said:

The only thing I didnt like was my seat. I sat in the upper bowl near the top, and I really felt away from everything. I could only see half of the tron, and it felt like I was looking straight down opposed to the Joe where the view was great from pretty much everywhere and there really were no bad seats with the exception of a few small sections.

 

I had seats in Section 226 row 10 close to center ice last night and I absolutely agree. There's a large "catwalk" in front the upper row seats on both sides of the arena (believe one side is where the broadcasters are). This "catwalk" obstructs your view of that beautiful scoreboard and you do feel that you aren't getting the full "experience" of the arena. Will definitely be keeping that in mind next time I order tickets..

And yeah, they need to fix that goal horn and fwiw... If you are a smoker, there are NO OUTDOOR SMOKING SECTIONS. I wanted to grab a vape between periods and asked an employee near one of the entrances and he was nice enough to inform of that. You want to go out to smoke/vape you will have to pay for another admission to get back in. Will definitely be bringing a stealth vape setup next time I go.  

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

So on the horn that I found! 

Edited September 27, 2017 by HadThomasVokounOnFortSt

[Dabura 12,207]

It's looking like Frk is on track to earn a roster spot...

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/09/26/detroit-red-wings-dennis-cholowski/704355001/

[Buppy 1,720]

10 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The goal is to have optimal passing AND shooting lanes, which in turn gives you better scoring opportunities, which in theory would boost scoring... No one would claim that Frk would have the same effect on the power-play as a player like Ovechkin, but it's not unreasonable to think his shot could boost our power-play. Imagine me saying the same thing about Eaves a few years ago. You would have had the exact same lame argument. But guess what? Eaves is Dallas being used the same way I'm suggesting we use Frk, and it's working out quite well for them. Frk has a deadly shot, and it would only take a couple times of unloading that cannon before teams would start to take notice.

Nothing is going to change, unless we change our power-play set up, but it looks like we have somewhat early in the pre-season. If we stick with a power-play that revolves around shooters on both sides of the ice, I think Frk would be well served as one of our triggermen. Pulkkinen is smaller, weaker on the puck and a weaker skater. That's why he didn't make it here. I think the only legitimate comparison between the two, is their shot, other than that, they're completely different players. But speaking of Pulkkinen, he's scored two power-play goals with Vegas in two games in the exact same spot. Waiting on the left half boards for teammates to find him and unleash the shot. I realize it's just pre-season, and time and space will be cut in half in the regular season, but I think Frk would be capable in finding that time and space. Give him a shot.

I'm not saying Frk is the answer to our power-play woes, I'm just saying that he could help. I think he would. You don't. You're probably right. It's likely that players, coaches, and analysts are wrong...

No, I assure you the goal is to score. How you try to accomplish that depends on what specific options you have available. Generalizations are fine so long as you understand that they are just that. If you want to make predictions about specific players, you have to go deeper than that.

And that's really all I was saying. PPs are more complex than just having left and right shots. I'm sure you agree with that, even though you're calling it a "lame argument" here. You're offended that I don't share your enthusiasm for Frk, so you're not even trying to understand what I've been saying. So let's get past the generalizations. I will agree, as I've already said, that having both left and right shooters is nice, preferable in fact, assuming all else being relatively equal. I'm sure you will agree that having both does not, by itself, make a good PP. OK?

So on to the specifics. I believe the problems with our PP are such that we would not be able to utilize Frk's skills. I think our issues are with possession and puck movement, and having those issues with 5 skaters involved, I don't think it particularly likely that it would improve with 4, plus one guy waiting for a one-timer. 

Could we improve? Could we show more poise, make better passes, move better without the puck? Of course, but that is something independent of Frk, and the skills are not those Frk is noted for so I wouldn't expect him to contribute to that improvement. He might benefit from that hypothetical improvement, and in that way further improve the PP, but I'd reserve judgement on that until after I see that improvement.

 

[BinMucker94 302]

5 hours ago, Buppy said:

No, I assure you the goal is to score. How you try to accomplish that depends on what specific options you have available. Generalizations are fine so long as you understand that they are just that. If you want to make predictions about specific players, you have to go deeper than that.

And that's really all I was saying. PPs are more complex than just having left and right shots. I'm sure you agree with that, even though you're calling it a "lame argument" here. You're offended that I don't share your enthusiasm for Frk, so you're not even trying to understand what I've been saying. So let's get past the generalizations. I will agree, as I've already said, that having both left and right shooters is nice, preferable in fact, assuming all else being relatively equal. I'm sure you will agree that having both does not, by itself, make a good PP. OK?

So on to the specifics. I believe the problems with our PP are such that we would not be able to utilize Frk's skills. I think our issues are with possession and puck movement, and having those issues with 5 skaters involved, I don't think it particularly likely that it would improve with 4, plus one guy waiting for a one-timer. 

Could we improve? Could we show more poise, make better passes, move better without the puck? Of course, but that is something independent of Frk, and the skills are not those Frk is noted for so I wouldn't expect him to contribute to that improvement. He might benefit from that hypothetical improvement, and in that way further improve the PP, but I'd reserve judgement on that until after I see that improvement.

 

Why would there be only 4 guys moving the puck around? I'm sure Frk would be involved in the passing, set-up, and rotation of the power play. It's not like he's going to just sit on the half wall and one time every puck that comes his way.

i know it's only preseason but so far Frk has shown plenty of poise and skill with the puck. Go back and check out the breakout pass he makes to Larkin on Mantha's goal vs Pittsburgh. He pulls the puck off the half wall under pressure hits Larkin in full stride and they are gone. He's made that play with Larkin and Mantha several times this preseason.

The play I'm talking about is at 2:17

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 hours ago, Buppy said:

No, I assure you the goal is to score. How you try to accomplish that depends on what specific options you have available. Generalizations are fine so long as you understand that they are just that. If you want to make predictions about specific players, you have to go deeper than that.

And that's really all I was saying. PPs are more complex than just having left and right shots. I'm sure you agree with that, even though you're calling it a "lame argument" here. You're offended that I don't share your enthusiasm for Frk, so you're not even trying to understand what I've been saying. So let's get past the generalizations. I will agree, as I've already said, that having both left and right shooters is nice, preferable in fact, assuming all else being relatively equal. I'm sure you will agree that having both does not, by itself, make a good PP. OK?

So on to the specifics. I believe the problems with our PP are such that we would not be able to utilize Frk's skills. I think our issues are with possession and puck movement, and having those issues with 5 skaters involved, I don't think it particularly likely that it would improve with 4, plus one guy waiting for a one-timer. 

Could we improve? Could we show more poise, make better passes, move better without the puck? Of course, but that is something independent of Frk, and the skills are not those Frk is noted for so I wouldn't expect him to contribute to that improvement. He might benefit from that hypothetical improvement, and in that way further improve the PP, but I'd reserve judgement on that until after I see that improvement.

"It's about the process". "Do good things, and good things happen". Sound familiar? No, it's not just about scoring goals. That is obviously the end goal, but it's about bettering your chances, which naturally increases goal scoring.

I understand that power-plays are more complex than just having left and right shots, but you're reacting as if I'm suggesting we throw Glendening and Witkowski out there... I'm not. Frk has demonstrated that he is more than capable to play in these few preseason games, so let's see how he does in the regular season. Virtually everyone has been impressed with Frk except you. Hell, Blashill (the one that matters) has been very impressed with him, saying he has been "really, really good". He also said "he's got a big body and a weapon of a shot. I can't say enough about his work ethic. Tons of work ethic and perseverance. The way he's played so far, he can make our team better. He can provide some scoring but also provide forecheck pressure and backcheck pressure."

I'm not "offended" that you don't see the same thing I do with Frk. You're the one that got on me just because I think Frk has looked really good, and think he deserves a legit shot as a 3rd line winger / power-play triggerman. Reserve judgement until you see it, that's fine, but don't assume that Frk is the same player he was this time last year. He's not. He's improved leaps and bounds in all areas of his game since then. He's looked great in the preseason and I hope it continues into the regular season.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

"It's about the process". "Do good things, and good things happen". Sound familiar? No, it's not just about scoring goals. That is obviously the end goal, but it's about bettering your chances, which naturally increases goal scoring.

I understand that power-plays are more complex than just having left and right shots, but you're reacting as if I'm suggesting we throw Glendening and Witkowski out there... I'm not. Frk has demonstrated that he is more than capable to play in these few preseason games, so let's see how he does in the regular season. Virtually everyone has been impressed with Frk except you. Hell, Blashill (the one that matters) has been very impressed with him, saying he has been "really, really good". He also said "he's got a big body and a weapon of a shot. I can't say enough about his work ethic. Tons of work ethic and perseverance. The way he's played so far, he can make our team better. He can provide some scoring but also provide forecheck pressure and backcheck pressure."

I'm not "offended" that you don't see the same thing I do with Frk. You're the one that got on me just because I think Frk has looked really good, and think he deserves a legit shot as a 3rd line winger / power-play triggerman. Reserve judgement until you see it, that's fine, but don't assume that Frk is the same player he was this time last year. He's not. He's improved leaps and bounds in all areas of his game since then. He's looked great in the preseason and I hope it continues into the regular season.

I see another Andrej Nestrasil.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I see another Andrej Nestrasil.

Cool. Not even close to the same player. Nestrasil sucked. Always did.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

37 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Cool. Not even close to the same player. Nestrasil sucked. Always did.

No, not the same player. Different players. Both bottom 6 forwards who will be in Europe sooner than later though.

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

"It's about the process". "Do good things, and good things happen". Sound familiar? No, it's not just about scoring goals. That is obviously the end goal, but it's about bettering your chances, which naturally increases goal scoring.

I understand that power-plays are more complex than just having left and right shots, but you're reacting as if I'm suggesting we throw Glendening and Witkowski out there... I'm not. Frk has demonstrated that he is more than capable to play in these few preseason games, so let's see how he does in the regular season. Virtually everyone has been impressed with Frk except you. Hell, Blashill (the one that matters) has been very impressed with him, saying he has been "really, really good". He also said "he's got a big body and a weapon of a shot. I can't say enough about his work ethic. Tons of work ethic and perseverance. The way he's played so far, he can make our team better. He can provide some scoring but also provide forecheck pressure and backcheck pressure."

I'm not "offended" that you don't see the same thing I do with Frk. You're the one that got on me just because I think Frk has looked really good, and think he deserves a legit shot as a 3rd line winger / power-play triggerman. Reserve judgement until you see it, that's fine, but don't assume that Frk is the same player he was this time last year. He's not. He's improved leaps and bounds in all areas of his game since then. He's looked great in the preseason and I hope it continues into the regular season.

No, I'm reacting like you're suggesting that it's reasonably likely that a 24yo borderline NHLer with 2 games played is going to be the catalyst for "great things" happening on our PP.

[joesuffP 1,746]

If AA isn’t signed and Abby isn’t ready I think it’s pretty likely Frk will stay on that line for opening night

Also I know Bertuzzi is injured but in training camp I think Witowski had him clearly beat for that 4th line spot

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No, not the same player. Different players. Both bottom 6 forwards who will be in Europe sooner than later though.

Nestrasil isn't even an NHL quality player. I assume you're saying Frk isn't either? I agree on Frk being a bottom 6 forward, and he may end up in Europe at some point, but I think if he's used properly he can carve out a decent career as a bottom 6, power-play specialist.

2 hours ago, Buppy said:

No, I'm reacting like you're suggesting that it's reasonably likely that a 24yo borderline NHLer with 2 games played is going to be the catalyst for "great things" happening on our PP.

A ton of players, especially in the Red Wings organization have been rookies at the age of 23 or later. Some have gone on to have very good careers, others were gone in the blink of an eye. I think Frk could be a weapon on the power-play, so does his coach, so do his teammates, so do many fans (including others on here)... You don't, and like I said, you may be right. I could care less. I just want him to be given a legit shot, to see what he can do.

Why are you quoting "great things" as if it's something I said? I never said that he would be the catalyst for "great things" happening on our power-play, I just think if utilized properly, he could be a key cog in improving a bottom feeder power-play. That's it. Nothing more than that. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Nestrasil isn't even an NHL quality player. I assume you're saying Frk isn't either? I agree on Frk being a bottom 6 forward, and he may end up in Europe at some point, but I think if he's used properly he can carve out a decent career as a bottom 6, power-play specialist.

A ton of players, especially in the Red Wings organization have been rookies at the age of 23 or later. Some have gone on to have very good careers, others were gone in the blink of an eye. I think Frk could be a weapon on the power-play, so does his coach, so do his teammates, so do many fans (including others on here)... You don't, and like I said, you may be right. I could care less. I just want him to be given a legit shot, to see what he can do.

Why are you quoting "great things" as if it's something I said? I never said that he would be the catalyst for "great things" happening on our power-play, I just think if utilized properly, he could be a key cog in improving a bottom feeder power-play. That's it. Nothing more than that. 

Nestrasil did pretty well in Carolina. They used him as a big body in front of the net and by all accounts they really liked having him in that role. Then he got injured, and when he finally came back they had already given his roster spot to another player. So he went back to the AHL with promises that they still really wanted him and would call him back up as soon as they could. That never happened, and he was pretty openly cheesed about it, which is why he jumped to the KHL. Had the injury not happened I think he probably would have been back with Carolina this year.

Regardless, I think he and Frk are 4th line NHL players at best. And I'd rather have a 4th line of gritty PK types than a couple of Euros who just aren't skilled enough to play on a scoring line.

[LeftWinger 4,958]

Pit waived Tinordi. He cleared. This kid had so much potential when he was drafted. That's too bad....

[Dabura 12,207]

30 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Regardless, I think he and Frk are 4th line NHL players at best. And I'd rather have a 4th line of gritty PK types than a couple of Euros who just aren't skilled enough to play on a scoring line.

To be fair, Frk is plenty gritty. Probably not PK material, but if we're just talking forechecking ability and hard-nosed play, he can do that. He likes throwing his weight around and will battle for pucks and positioning. He'd probably be a liability on the defensive side of the puck, but the same could be said of Glendening.

[sputman 1,268]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

To be fair, Frk is plenty gritty. Probably not PK material, but if we're just talking forechecking ability and hard-nosed play, he can do that. He likes throwing his weight around and will battle for pucks and positioning. He'd probably be a liability on the defensive side of the puck, but the same could be said of Glendening.

Frk has really been throwing his weight around. He's really trying hard to impress management.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

To be fair, Frk is plenty gritty. Probably not PK material, but if we're just talking forechecking ability and hard-nosed play, he can do that. He likes throwing his weight around and will battle for pucks and positioning. He'd probably be a liability on the defensive side of the puck, but the same could be said of Glendening.

 

40 minutes ago, sputman said:

Frk has really been throwing his weight around. He's really trying hard to impress management.

Come now, Europeans can't be gritty. That is a North American trait passed down by our ancient ancestors.

[Dabura 12,207]

26 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Come now, Europeans can't be gritty. That is a North American trait passed down by our ancient ancestors.

Vikings, bruh.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Vikings, bruh.

Look like a buncha long-haired hippy types to me