The 13th F......

[Richdg 267]

As was being discussed on the radio tonight, the RW's are going 8 D-all set if healthy and 13 F's. If AA signs we have 12. So who is the 13th? Bert is out. So is it PAP? Booth? If Sheahan gets moved we have 2 spots open depending on the return. So both PAP and Booth? Do we take a risk and give Rasmussen a shot for a while? IIRC they can play up to 12 games in the NHL and still go back to junior. So give him a nice taste until Bert is ready? Do we go with another scorer like Svechnikov? Thoughts?

[Buppy 1,720]

13 F seems unlikely if we have 8 healthy D. Maybe if we trade Sheahan and AA continues to hold out, we could see something like Frk, Svech, and PAP for a while. More likely we go with 12, with one of those 3 plus one of Sheahan/AA. At least for however long it takes for someone else to hit LTIR.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

Sheahan traded, AA signed, Frk will make the roster. 

Tatar-Z-Nyquist

Mantha-Larkin-Frk

AA-Nielsen-booth

Abby-Glenny-helm

PAP

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Wait, what did I miss that Bertuzzi is out? Sent down or injured?

I thought lineup would be:

Z/Larkin - Z/Larkin - Mantha

Tatar - Nielsen - Abby

Nyquist - Sheahan - AA/PAP

Helm - Glendening - Bertuzzi

Witkowski

Kronwall (wishful thinking) - Green

DD - Daley

Ericsson - Jensen

Ouellet - Sproul

Howard/Mrazek

[LeftWinger 4,936]

IMO Hicketts has earned a spot.Sproul looked horrid tonight. E, well E shoukd be gone. Hicketts and Witkow shoukd replace those 2.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

I continue to be astounded by how many people bitched and moaned about signing Daley (a position of need). But now everyone is totally cool with signing PAP and Booth, and talking about them like they already have contracts (not a position of need either). Is it the position? The player (s)? The time of year? Where is the boat that I missed?

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I continue to be astounded by how many people bitched and moaned about signing Daley (a position of need). But now everyone is totally cool with signing PAP and Booth, and talking about them like they already have contracts (not a position of need either). Is it the position? The player (s)? The time of year? Where is the boat that I missed?

Ideally we'd like to go with 14 forwards and 7 defensemen. We currently have 11 forwards (Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Mantha, Abdelkader, Helm, Sheahan, Glendening, Witkowski), and 8 defensemen (Daley, Green, DeKeyser, Jensen, Kronwall, Ericsson, Ouellet, Sproul), with others knocking on the door. We need to sign / call up 3 forwards (Athanasiou, Frk, Svechnikov, Bertuzzi (injured), Booth, Parenteau). With the Daley signing, we need to waive a defenseman (Ouellet, Sproul), with no room for any players to "earn a spot" (Hicketts, Cholowski, McIlrath), unless there are injuries (Kronwall, Ericsson?)

If Holland were capable in making the "tough decisions" and trading / waiving a player, and going with the 7 best defensemen, I'd be okay with the Daley signing. But because we know a younger player will suffer, that's why I never liked the signing. There's no question Daley makes our defense better, but for a team that needs to rebuild and go with a youth movement, that's the only reason I think it was a bad signing for us.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Ideally we'd like to go with 14 forwards and 7 defensemen. We currently have 11 forwards (Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Mantha, Abdelkader, Helm, Sheahan, Glendening, Witkowski), and 8 defensemen (Daley, Green, DeKeyser, Jensen, Kronwall, Ericsson, Ouellet, Sproul), with others knocking on the door. We need to sign / call up 3 forwards (Athanasiou, Frk, Svechnikov, Bertuzzi (injured), Booth, Parenteau). With the Daley signing, we need to waive a defenseman (Ouellet, Sproul), with no room for any players to "earn a spot" (Hicketts, Cholowski, McIlrath), unless there are injuries (Kronwall, Ericsson?)

If Holland were capable in making the "tough decisions" and trading / waiving a player, and going with the 7 best defensemen, I'd be okay with the Daley signing. But because we know a younger player will suffer, that's why I never liked the signing. There's no question Daley makes our defense better, but for a team that needs to rebuild and go with a youth movement, that's the only reason I think it was a bad signing for us.

When AA is signed we will have 12 forwards. A full forward group. Then we have Frk, Bertuzzi, and Svechnikov knocking on the door. That's 15 forwards. If you want a youth movement, signing PAP and/or Booth just log jams the youth back down in GR some more.

I get what you're saying about Daley, but Green will probably be gone at the deadline and Kronwall is unlikely to play a full season. Even so, let's pretend the backend stays healthy and Green doesn't get traded. Why the hypocrisy about Daley log jammin up the D, but not Booth or PAP log jammin up the forwards? I don't get it.

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

When AA is signed we will have 12 forwards. A full forward group. Then we have Frk, Bertuzzi, and Svechnikov knocking on the door. That's 15 forwards. If you want a youth movement, signing PAP and/or Booth just log jams the youth back down in GR some more.

I get what you're saying about Daley, but Green will probably be gone at the deadline and Kronwall is unlikely to play a full season. Even so, let's pretend the backend stays healthy and Green doesn't get traded. Why the hypocrisy about Daley log jammin up the D, but not Booth or PAP log jammin up the forwards? I don't get it.

Athanasiou isn't signed yet, and although I think (hope) he will be in the coming weeks, there's no guarantee. Also, if / when he does sign, we will have to make another move, likely trading Sheahan (to Pittsburgh), which would once again put us back to 11 forwards. I think Frk should / will make the team, bringing us up to 12 forwards. I think Svechnikov should / will start the season in Grand Rapids, as the first injury call-up. Bertuzzi is out for the first few weeks and will likely return to Grand Rapids, if nothing more than for a conditioning stint. I'd be completely okay with signing Booth or Parenteau (preferably Booth) as a depth 12th / 13th forward for injury insurance.

If Kronwall spends most of the season on LTIR, the Daley signing works out. If we're completely healthy and waive Sproul (I know, I know, Sproul sucks...), it's a bad signing in my opinion.

My ideal lineup would look something like...

Tatar - Zetterberg - Nyquist

Abdelkader - Larkin - Mantha

Athanasiou - Nielsen - Frk

Helm - Sheahan - Glendening

Booth / Witkowski

This only works though if Kronwall (or someone else) goes on LTIR.

If / when we want to recall Bertuzzi, assuming everyone else remains healthy (doubtful), we could then waive one of Booth / Witkowski.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Athanasiou isn't signed yet, and although I think (hope) he will be in the coming weeks, there's no guarantee. Also, if / when he does sign, we will have to make another move, likely trading Sheahan (to Pittsburgh), which would once again put us back to 11 forwards. I think Frk should / will make the team, bringing us up to 12 forwards. I think Svechnikov should / will start the season in Grand Rapids, as the first injury call-up. Bertuzzi is out for the first few weeks and will likely return to Grand Rapids, if nothing more than for a conditioning stint. I'd be completely okay with signing Booth or Parenteau (preferably Booth) as a depth 12th / 13th forward for injury insurance.

If Kronwall spends most of the season on LTIR, the Daley signing works out. If we're completely healthy and waive Sproul (I know, I know, Sproul sucks...), it's a bad signing in my opinion.

My ideal lineup would look something like...

Tatar - Zetterberg - Nyquist

Abdelkader - Larkin - Mantha

Athanasiou - Nielsen - Frk

Helm - Sheahan - Glendening

Booth / Witkowski

This only works though if Kronwall (or someone else) goes on LTIR.

If / when we want to recall Bertuzzi, assuming everyone else remains healthy (doubtful), we could then waive one of Booth / Witkowski.

You talk about trading Sheahan, but leave out that Green is likely to be traded as well.

Sproul hasn't done anything noteworthy in his career yet. He's certainly not the same caliber as Daley right now, and likely won't be the entire season. I remind you, we have 3 more years of Daley. Calling him a bad signing because player X got waived at the start of his first season is a little premature IMO.

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You talk about trading Sheahan, but leave out that Green is likely to be traded as well.

Sproul hasn't done anything noteworthy in his career yet. He's certainly not the same caliber as Daley right now, and likely won't be the entire season. I remind you, we have 3 more years of Daley. Calling him a bad signing because player X got waived at the start of his first season is a little premature IMO.

Sheahan would have to be traded before the season starts if we sign Athanasiou, unless a player goes on LTIR. Green won't be traded until the deadline, if at all. HUGE difference.

Like I said, "I know, I know, Sproul sucks...".

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Sheahan would have to be traded before the season starts if we sign Athanasiou, unless a player goes on LTIR. Green won't be traded until the deadline, if at all. HUGE difference.

Like I said, "I know, I know, Sproul sucks...".

IDK if the difference is that huge. If Green is gone in a few months we will need a player like Daley to step in. And with the injury bug we probably won't even be that jammed up until then.

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

IDK if the difference is that huge. If Green is gone in a few months we will need a player like Daley to step in. And with the injury bug we probably won't even be that jammed up until then.

IF Green is traded, it would be because we're out of playoff contention. In which case, it would be wise to give players like Hicketts, McIlrath or whoever else a look, not rely on a 34 year old veteran to eat big minutes.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

13 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

IF Green is traded, it would be because we're out of playoff contention. In which case, it would be wise to give players like Hicketts, McIlrath or whoever else a look, not rely on a 34 year old veteran to eat big minutes.

Which is exactly why I don't see any need for PAP or Booth lol

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Which is exactly why I don't see any need for PAP or Booth lol

I don't see a "need" for Parenteau or Booth either... I'm not even saying that we necessarily SHOULD sign either of them, just that I'd be okay with it if Booth were signed as a depth forward. Neither would (should) be signed to play in the top 9, like Daley is to play in the top 4.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't see a "need" for Parenteau or Booth either... I'm not even saying that we necessarily SHOULD sign either of them, just that I'd be okay with it if Booth were signed as a depth forward. Neither would (should) be signed to play in the top 9, like Daley is to play in the top 4.

What's wrong with Daley in the top 4?

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

What's wrong with Daley in the top 4?

Absolutely nothing. He's a top 4 defenseman. You must have misread something I said...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Absolutely nothing. He's a top 4 defenseman. You must have misread something I said...

Yes I think I misunderstood your last sentence.

I just don't understand how everyone is cool with signing bottom of the barrel players, who no one else in the league wanted, that take spots from kids, but signing a legitimate top 4 who can help the team and take a spot from a kid is something to raise arms over  you'd think it would be the other way around.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yes I think I misunderstood your last sentence.

I just don't understand how everyone is cool with signing bottom of the barrel players, who no one else in the league wanted, that take spots from kids, but signing a legitimate top 4 who can help the team and take a spot from a kid is something to raise arms over  you'd think it would be the other way around.

Again, I don't think anyone is suggesting that we sign either Booth or Parenteau to play regularly above any of the kids. The only way they should be signed is as a depth forward (regular healthy scratch) playing a scattered game in a pinch (game day injury type situations). If we only had 6 defensemen on the active roster, I'd be completely fine with signing Dennis Wideman to a PTO and giving him a one year contract as a depth defenseman. Players on the active roster have to sit every night. We're not going to call up Svechnikov to sit, nor are we going to call him up to sit Sheahan or whoever else. Booth is the exact type of player you want as your 13th forward in my opinion. Hell, I would have even been okay with Miller coming back, strictly as the 13th forward, and I'm sure you know how I feel about Miller as a hockey player...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

When AA is signed we will have 12 forwards. A full forward group. Then we have Frk, Bertuzzi, and Svechnikov knocking on the door. That's 15 forwards. If you want a youth movement, signing PAP and/or Booth just log jams the youth back down in GR some more.

I get what you're saying about Daley, but Green will probably be gone at the deadline and Kronwall is unlikely to play a full season. Even so, let's pretend the backend stays healthy and Green doesn't get traded. Why the hypocrisy about Daley log jammin up the D, but not Booth or PAP log jammin up the forwards? I don't get it.

Bertuzzi is hurt, they don't think Svechnikov is ready, PAP or Booth aren't going to hold them back, plus I'd rather have one of them as the 13th guy sitting in the press box than a kid who could be playing in GR instead.  I'd still rather have Svechnikov in Detroit, but Holland is going to do his thing

Edited September 26, 2017 by DickieDunn

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Again, I don't think anyone is suggesting that we sign either Booth or Parenteau to play regularly above any of the kids. The only way they should be signed is as a depth forward (regular healthy scratch) playing a scattered game in a pinch (game day injury type situations). If we only had 6 defensemen on the active roster, I'd be completely fine with signing Dennis Wideman to a PTO and giving him a one year contract as a depth defenseman. Players on the active roster have to sit every night. We're not going to call up Svechnikov to sit, nor are we going to call him up to sit Sheahan or whoever else. Booth is the exact type of player you want as your 13th forward in my opinion. Hell, I would have even been okay with Miller coming back, strictly as the 13th forward, and I'm sure you know how I feel about Miller as a hockey player...

We already have that depth skater in Luke Witowski. He should be the one sitting while Frk plays, not Booth sitting so Witowski can play.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

We already have that depth skater in Luke Witowski. He should be the one sitting while Frk plays, not Booth sitting so Witowski can play.

Frk is a one trick pony, Pulk 2.0

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Bertuzzi is hurt, they don't think Svechnikov is ready, PAP or Booth aren't going to hold them back

Where'd you read this?

So Sproul is ready for full-time NHL duties then and Daley is holding him back? Is that what I'm not understanding?

1 minute ago, DickieDunn said:

Frk is a one trick pony, Pulk 2.0

So change his name out with Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, I just threw in young player X

Edited September 26, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

We already have that depth skater in Luke Witowski. He should be the one sitting while Frk plays, not Booth sitting so Witowski can play.

I never suggested this... Like I said, ideally teams prefer to go with 14 forwards and 7 defensemen. Booth and Witkowski would be my 13th and 14th forwards...

13 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Frk is a one trick pony, Pulk 2.0

Frk is nothing like Pulkkinen other than their shot...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I never suggested this... Like I said, ideally teams prefer to go with 14 forwards and 7 defensemen. Booth and Witkowski would be my 13th and 14th forwards...

Frk is nothing like Pulkkinen other than their shot...

We need multiple plugs? Good to know. News to me.