2017-18 Lines Thread

[krsmith17 7,191]

Lines stayed in tact tonight. Great to see. The Athanasiou - Larkin - Mantha line looks great. I'd still like to see the other three lines shuffled a bit to spread out the offense though. The Abdelkader - Nielsen - Helm line looks terrible. Move Abdelkader up with Zetterberg and Nyquist. Put Tatar and Frk on Nielsen's wings to form three offensive lines. Wilson - Helm - Glendening would be a great shutdown line. 

Ericsson has looked great with Daley. One of our better defenders these past few games in my opinion. I'm liking all the pairing right now. Howard let in a couple he might like to have back tonight, but he's been great as well.

[kickazz 5,459]

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader. That's the change I'd like to see. 

[Dabura 12,207]

3 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader Svechnikov. That's the change I'd like to see.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

4 hours ago, kickazz said:

You're talking about a completely separate issue then so why did you quote me when I'm clearly asking Dickie about Abdelkader? 

My question is about Abdelkader. 

Anyone else.  Someone with hands.  Homer wasn't effective because he was big, he was effective because he spent hours on end practicing tipping shots.  They don't have anyone effective in that role.  Mantha could be with some work, but he's better off in the slot where he can shoot.  But, as I've said and KRS said, the system isn't working.  It needs to change.   Generate traffic by people moving in and out of the crease area, make the goalie move around and find a hole created by the movement.  

But Trollhunter knows all.  He has spoken.  So let it be written, so let it be done.

[kickazz 5,459]

double

Edited November 1, 2017 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

22 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Anyone else.  Someone with hands. 

Anyone else? Really? That's your response? 

Here are your options to replace Abdelkader on the PP. Do tell us oh wise one, who would be a good replacement for him? I've conveniently listed the players that currently aren't on the PP unit:

Darren Helm

Frans Nielsen

Luke Glendening 

Nick Jensen

Jonathan Ericsson 

Scott Wilson

Luke Witkowski 

David Booth

Trevor Daley 

 

Oh man what a list to pick from. Who should replace Abdelkader? Will it be Helm? I know! Ericsson!!

You're such a genius Dickie, you talk trash about this team as if it's something obvious but you literally never have anything clever to come up with as a solution. 

The Red Wings don't have many options for the PP, all the important players are already on the units to begin with. 

Right but you don't know that do you? Because you look at the box score and see that Abdelkader has PP time so he's your defacto guy to chew out on. Not knowing that Larkin, AA, Z, Mantha, Nyquist, Tatar, and all the other "top" players of this team are already on it to begin with. 

So what's your response? "Anyone else" Because "I don't have a better solution, I just don't like Abdelkader" 

And then your cop out is "well lets change the PP style". Cool, that still doesn't change the fact that Abdelkader would still be on the PP because the other people I listed probably aren't good enough to be on it or bring anything special the others would. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, kickazz said:

Anyone else? Really? That's your response? 

Here are your options to replace Abdelkader on the PP. Do tell us oh wise one, who would be a good replacement for him? I've conveniently listed the players that currently aren't on the PP unit:

Darren Helm

Frans Nielsen

Luke Glendening 

Nick Jensen

Jonathan Ericsson 

Scott Wilson

Luke Witkowski 

David Booth

Trevor Daley 

 

Oh man what a list to pick from. Who should replace Abdelkader? Will it be Helm? I know! Ericsson!!

You're such a genius Dickie, you talk trash about this team as if it's something obvious but you literally never have anything clever to come up with as a solution. 

The Red Wings don't have many options for the PP, all the important players are already on the units to begin with. 

Right but you don't know that do you? Because you look at the box score and see that Abdelkader has PP time so he's your defacto guy to chew out on. Not knowing that Larkin, AA, Z, Mantha, Nyquist, Tatar, and all the other "top" players of this team are already on it to begin with. 

So what's your response? "Anyone else" Because "I don't have a better solution, I just don't like Abdelkader" 

And then your cop out is "well lets change the PP style". Cool, that still doesn't change the fact that Abdelkader would still be on the PP because the other people I listed probably aren't good enough to be on it or bring anything special the others would. 

You really believe Abdelkader is better (suited for the power-play) offensively than Nielsen or Daley? I don't. The problem with the power-play isn't Abdelkader. The problem with the power-play is that we try to run it through (Abdelkader) the net front presence. Of course he scores some goals on the power-play with the system we run. But that doesn't mean that's the system we should run, or even that he should be on it. I'm not bashing Abdelkader. Hell, I've even advocated having Abby move up the lineup with Zetterberg and Nyquist. I just think Abby is better suited on the penalty-kill than he is on the power-play. Ideally for me, Abdelkader would play 14-16 minutes at even strength and 1-2 minutes on the penalty kill.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

7 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You go off topic and off quote THE MOST out of anybody on here!  Pot, meet Kettle.

he's just Jelly...

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

You really believe Abdelkader is better (suited for the power-play) offensively than Nielsen or Daley? I don't. The problem with the power-play isn't Abdelkader. The problem with the power-play is that we try to run it through (Abdelkader) the net front presence. Of course he scores some goals on the power-play with the system we run. But that doesn't mean that's the system we should run, or even that he should be on it. I'm not bashing Abdelkader. Hell, I've even advocated having Abby move up the lineup with Zetterberg and Nyquist. I just think Abby is better suited on the penalty-kill than he is on the power-play. Ideally for me, Abdelkader would play 14-16 minutes at even strength and 1-2 minutes on the penalty kill.

Yes Abdelkader is a better option than Daley and Nielsen because what Daley brings is already covered by Green, Kronwal and Frk. Having a 5th player with a similar role would be useless (and quite frankly idiotic) . Nielsen wouldn’t bring anything Z, Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin already don’t. Having too many of the same types of players on the PP is stupid. Hence why neither of then are on those units. You should know this and I’m shocked you haven’t realized it. Abdelkader is unique from both Daley and Nielsen in that he can actually outmuscle defenders when they collapse or fetch the puck in the corners and 9/10 times actually win the battles to keep the PP going. Even if we got rid of the net front presence player, both Abdelkader and Mantha are still useful simply because of their strength in this situation. If Abdelkader gets bumped off the PP it will likely be for someone of similar atribute such as Rasmussen, Givani Smith. I’m predicting this is exactly what will happen in 2-3 years time unless we sign a similar power forward before that. (Or according to Dickiedunn’s conspiracy theory, Larkin becomes the power forward Blashill supposedly wanted him to be)

The other option is Franzen makes a miraculous recovery and comes back and bumps Abby off. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Homer can't skate

Franzen doesn't try

Abby can't hands

We have one, and only one, power forward on this team at the moment. We need him on the PP. Yall are stupid.

[kickazz 5,459]

11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Homer can't skate

Franzen doesn't try

Abby can't hands

We have one, and only one, power forward on this team at the moment. We need him on the PP. Yall are stupid.

It’s basically at the point where people will cling onto anything to talk s*** about just because they’re frustrated with the team.

I’m not surprised, just two years ago people were calling for Zetterberg’s head.

Powerforward? What’s that? I don’t know I just don’t like Blashill or “the process” or da “systerm”. We need to change “da system” and change “da process” so I’ll vent about it and use Abby as a scapegoat to insult the current “process” and da “system”

Edited November 1, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

37 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Yes Abdelkader is a better option than Daley and Nielsen because what Daley brings is already covered by Green, Kronwal and Frk. Having a 5th player with a similar role would be useless (and quite frankly idiotic) . Nielsen wouldn’t bring anything Z, Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin already don’t. Having too many of the same types of players on the PP is stupid. Hence why neither of then are on those units. You should know this and I’m shocked you haven’t realized it. Abdelkader is unique from both Daley and Nielsen in that he can actually outmuscle defenders when they collapse or fetch the puck in the corners and 9/10 times actually win the battles to keep the PP going. Even if we got rid of the net front presence player, both Abdelkader and Mantha are still useful simply because of their strength in this situation. If Abdelkader gets bumped off the PP it will likely be for someone of similar atribute such as Rasmussen, Givani Smith. I’m predicting this is exactly what will happen in 2-3 years time unless we sign a similar power forward before that. (Or according to Dickiedunn’s conspiracy theory, Larkin becomes the power forward Blashill supposedly wanted him to be)

The other option is Franzen makes a miraculous recovery and comes back and bumps Abby off. 

The funniest part is, If Abby doesn't get replaced by Smith, Ras, Elfstrom, or even Mantha... this team will be so desperate for a net front presence they will try to turn Glendening into a powerforward... as I suspect Babs had intentions of doing down the line.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Yes Abdelkader is a better option than Daley and Nielsen because what Daley brings is already covered by Green, Kronwal and Frk. Having a 5th player with a similar role would be useless (and quite frankly idiotic) . Nielsen wouldn’t bring anything Z, Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin already don’t. Having too many of the same types of players on the PP is stupid. Hence why neither of then are on those units. You should know this and I’m shocked you haven’t realized it. Abdelkader is unique from both Daley and Nielsen in that he can actually outmuscle defenders when they collapse or fetch the puck in the corners and 9/10 times actually win the battles to keep the PP going. Even if we got rid of the net front presence player, both Abdelkader and Mantha are still useful simply because of their strength in this situation. If Abdelkader gets bumped off the PP it will likely be for someone of similar atribute such as Rasmussen, Givani Smith. I’m predicting this is exactly what will happen in 2-3 years time unless we sign a similar power forward before that. (Or according to Dickiedunn’s conspiracy theory, Larkin becomes the power forward Blashill supposedly wanted him to be)

The other option is Franzen makes a miraculous recovery and comes back and bumps Abby off. 

How are Green, Kronwall and Frk lumped into the same type of player? How does 3 + 1 = 5? Having more skill on any line is never stupid. We need more grit though right?... Abdelkader is our only hope to retrieve pucks... No one else can outmuscle players...

Mantha shouldn't be used as a net front either. His best asset is his shot. Let him use it. Not to mention the close call a couple games ago when he was inches away from serious injury after taking a Frk shot to the mid section.

There's nothing wrong with the system. 15% is pretty good. Don't change anything...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

37 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

How are Green, Kronwall and Frk lumped into the same type of player? How does 3 + 1 = 5? Having more skill on any line is never stupid. We need more grit though right?... Abdelkader is our only hope to retrieve pucks... No one else can outmuscle players...

Mantha shouldn't be used as a net front either. His best asset is his shot. Let him use it. Not to mention the close call a couple games ago when he was inches away from serious injury after taking a Frk shot to the mid section.

There's nothing wrong with the system. 15% is pretty good. Don't change anything...

I agree with you. Mantha is too talented to play the front of the net. We need a less skilled big body in front of the net... like Abdelkader

[krsmith17 7,191]

20 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I agree with you. Mantha is too talented to play the front of the net. We need a less skilled big body in front of the net... like Abdelkader

Or we can say f*** the untalented net front player, and go with a talented player in the high slot... Nah, that would never work... NEED MORE GRIT!

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Or we can say f*** the untalented net front player, and go with a talented player in the high slot... Nah, that would never work... NEED MORE GRIT!

You don't need grit on the PP. You need someone who can cleanup rebounds. Being near the net, especially on the PP, is a good thing. 

[NerveDamage 4,176]

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You don't need grit on the PP. You need someone who can cleanup rebounds. Being near the net, especially on the PP, is a good thing. 

ok Martha...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

"I'm going to ignore 90% of the point you're making and demand you answer this one part within a narrowly defined window that makes it almost impossible for you to refute what I said."

-Kickazz in 95% of his responses

 

You can't argue that the PP is effective and that a different system that doesn't rely on parking a lump in front of the net might work, so you ignore that and demand "who's better than Abdelkader????????????" and blow off any suggestion that doesn't match what you're saying.

Edited November 1, 2017 by DickieDunn

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 minutes ago, NerveDamage said:

ok Martha...

 

Hey Martha is cool now. Life in the pen made her hard n s***

[NerveDamage 4,176]

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Hey Martha is cool now. Life in the pen made her hard n s***

lol, stop posting our pics... 

about to try the weed Jelly shots... thanks for the recipe

Edited November 1, 2017 by NerveDamage

[krsmith17 7,191]

31 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You don't need grit on the PP. You need someone who can cleanup rebounds. Being near the net, especially on the PP, is a good thing. 

You know who should be "cleaning up rebounds"? Skilled players. I would set up a large spread, with two players on the points, two players down low, and a player in the middle. You don't need a guy directly in front of the net to get at a rebound. Any time there's a shot from the point (or the half boards), you have two players on each side of the net, as well as a player in the high slot that can all collapse and pounce on rebounds. Anyway, agree to disagree I guess.

Personally, I'd have all the skill players on the two power-play units and the "grit" players on the penalty kill units. Teams dress 18 skaters every night. Coincidentally you need 10 players (8 forwards, 2 defensemen) for 2 power-play units, and 8 players (4 forwards, 4 defensemen) for 2 penalty kill units. I'd have Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Frk, Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Green and Daley on the power-play, and Glendening, Abdelkader, Helm, Wilson, Kronwall, Ericsson, Ouellet, Jensen on the penalty kill units. That's just me though...

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Or we can say f*** the untalented net front player, and go with a talented player in the high slot... Nah, that would never work... NEED MORE GRIT!

Who the f*** said that? You're just making up stuff now. Lol. 

18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You know who should be "cleaning up rebounds"? Skilled players. I would set up a large spread, with two players on the points, two players down low, and a player in the middle. You don't need a guy directly in front of the net to get at a rebound. Any time there's a shot from the point (or the half boards), you have two players on each side of the net, as well as a player in the high slot that can all collapse and pounce on rebounds. Anyway, agree to disagree I guess.

Personally, I'd have all the skill players on the two power-play units and the "grit" players on the penalty kill units. Teams dress 18 skaters every night. Coincidentally you need 10 players (8 forwards, 2 defensemen) for 2 power-play units, and 8 players (4 forwards, 4 defensemen) for 2 penalty kill units. I'd have Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Frk, Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Green and Daley on the power-play, and Glendening, Abdelkader, Helm, Wilson, Kronwall, Ericsson, Ouellet, Jensen on the penalty kill units. That's just me though...

Abdelkader isn't grit. He's a powerforward. He scores goals when he's set up well, he's got moves on breakaways. Did you see the penalty shot he scored? He's also got a decent wrist shot. I have no clue where you're getting this idea that Abdelkader doesn't have skill. You seem to be generalizing a lot because you don't like the system right now. Abdelkader is 0% of the problem on the PP. He can play downlow, doesn't have to play net front. Even if we changed the PP set up it doesn't mean Abdelkader wouldn't be on the PP.

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

16 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Who the f*** said that? You're just making up stuff now. Lol. 

Abdelkader isn't grit. He's a powerforward. He scores goals when he's set up well, he's got moves on breakaways. Did you see the penalty shot he scored? He's also got a decent wrist shot. I have no clue where you're getting this idea that Abdelkader doesn't have skill. You seem to be generalizing a lot because you don't like the system right now. Abdelkader is 0% of the problem on the PP. He can play downlow, doesn't have to play net front. Even if we changed the PP set up it doesn't mean Abdelkader wouldn't be on the PP.

What would you call a "less skilled big body"? I assumed he was referring to grit. Maybe not, but that's what I'd call it. I'm not "making up stuff now. Lol."...

Abdelkader is a power forward in the same way that Brendan Smith is an offensive defenseman. It's true of both, but neither are very good at their respective roles... Stop trying to turn this into something it isn't though (like you always do). I'm arguing that the system we're using on the power-play is flawed, not the personnel we're using on it. I've said several times that Abdelkader isn't the issue with the power-play. If you want to argue Abdelkader, argue with Dickie. I only chimed in when the system was brought up. I've said my piece. That's it from me.

[kickazz 5,459]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

What would you call a "less skilled big body"? I assumed he was referring to grit. Maybe not, but that's what I'd call it. I'm not "making up stuff now. Lol."...

Abdelkader is a power forward in the same way that Brendan Smith is an offensive defenseman. It's true of both, but neither are very good at their respective roles... Stop trying to turn this into something it isn't though (like you always do). I'm arguing that the system we're using on the power-play is flawed, not the personnel we're using on it. I've said several times that Abdelkader isn't the issue with the power-play. If you want to argue Abdelkader, argue with Dickie. I only chimed in when the system was brought up. I've said my piece. That's it from me.

I'm confused, you keep saying you don't think Abdelkader is the problem but then you are arguing about his grit sarcastically and Daley and Nielsen vs Abby for PP spot.  

So which one is it? 

Edited November 1, 2017 by kickazz