Sheahan and a 5th for Wilson and a 3rd

[Jacksoni 418]

So we're all set to going forward for this year at least until the trade deadline. I am ok with the moves made and I really like that they kept the ball rolling on the trades while waiting for Athanasiou's crazy agent.

 

[SwedeLundin77 460]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

I'm sure Wilson will get a look on the fourth line. He's definitely an upgrade over Booth and Witkowski. At least, in theory.

It'll be interesting to see how the lines shake out when AA returns. If everyone in the forward group stays healthy and the team continues to score at a decent clip, we're probably looking at something like this:

Mantha  Zetterberg  Nyquist
Tatar  Larkin  Abdelkader
Athanasiou  Nielsen  Frk
Wilson  Helm  Glendening

Blashill seems pretty intent on limiting the fourth line's minutes this season and Frk seems to be regressing, so I could also see the bottom six being Helm-Nielsen-Athanasiou / Wilson-Glendening-Frk. Or Blashill might just banish Frk to the press box and give Booth/Witkowski his spot.

Blashill needs to stop being a nut job and keep his lines together, let them build chemistry. Frk never deserved being thrown down the lineup.  

Tatar-Zetterberg-Nyquist
Mantha-Larkin-Athanasiou
Helm-Nielsen-Frk
Wilson-Glendening-Abdelkader

Booth, Witkowski

They did assure Athanasiou that he would be getting 16-17 minutes a night and solid powerplay/pk minutes, so there is that to consider.

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

14 hours ago, Dabura said:

Do we know if the 3rd is a 2018 pick?

Yes it is?

14 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This seems like a decent trade for us. The upgrade in pick from 5th to 3rd and freeing up cap space to sign Athanasiou makes it a win in my book...

Totally agree, Sheahan had no future in Detroit. So that's a win win trade in my book.

14 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Hey, traded aren't so hard after all!

Only when you're Ken Holland, And over pricing your own players.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

12 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Wow, the legendary Riley last-goal-at-the-Joe Sheahan is no more. No more teletubby jokes or pics of him holding doggos I guess. Bummer.

Penguins fans saying Wilson is a fast skater who brings energy and PK work

no more Riley's rescues...

[kickazz 5,459]

16 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Hey, traded aren't so hard after all!

I've been seeing a lot of people post this lately. 

What does that even mean? Holland has done 6 trades in 2017 alone.  

[krsmith17 7,191]

25 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I've been seeing a lot of people post this lately. 

What does that even mean? Holland has done 6 trades in 2017 alone.  

7 actually. A trade is a trade I guess, but what I'd like to see, and I assume people that say "trades are hard" would like to see, is a big trade. A trade that actually has a big impact, like acquiring a top pair defenseman or top defensive prospect. Trades of this magnitude (bottom six forwards / bottom pair defensemen) aren't "hard", but Holland hasn't been able to pull off a big trade since when? 2007/2008?... 

[LeftWinger 4,934]

It's just one of Holland's little saying like "kicked some tires." He had said a couple or so times that he'd like to make a deal, but "Trades are hard."

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

7 actually. A trade is a trade I guess, but what I'd like to see, and I assume people that say "trades are hard" would like to see, is a big trade. A trade that actually has a big impact, like acquiring a top pair defenseman or top defensive prospect. Trades of this magnitude (bottom six forwards / bottom pair defensemen) aren't "hard", but Holland hasn't been able to pull off a big trade since when? 2007/2008?... 

I mean... out of the 31 GMs, how many actually do big trades.. We don't have a Drouin or Panarin to give up. I mean we have Larkin or Mantha basically. That's it. Mrazek wasn't even taken for free by Vegas. No one offer sheeted AA, not even the KHL would give him the money he wanted. We just don't have the personell to make big moves. 

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

It's just one of Holland's little saying like "kicked some tires." He had said a couple or so times that he'd like to make a deal, but "Trades are hard."

I mean he's not wrong. They are hard. If you want to make major ones. Like I said, how many of the 31 GMs actually make blockbuster trades without having pieces worth it? 

Edited October 22, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I mean... out of the 31 GMs, how many actually do big trades..  

I'm not going to go through the trade history of every team / GM, but I would say most, if not all have made at least one big(ish) trade over the past 10 seasons. Holland has made plenty minor trades (some good, some bad), but nothing of significance in that time. 

[kliq 3,755]

11 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I mean... out of the 31 GMs, how many actually do big trades.. We don't have a Drouin or Panarin to give up. I mean we have Larkin or Mantha basically. That's it. Mrazek wasn't even taken for free by Vegas. No one offer sheeted AA, not even the KHL would give him the money he wanted. We just don't have the personell to make big moves. 

I mean he's not wrong. They are hard. If you want to make major ones. Like I said, how many of the 31 GMs actually make blockbuster trades without having pieces worth it? 

There really arent a lot of BIG trades anymore. Off the top of my head over the past say 7 years I can only think of the Drouin trade, Weber/Subban trade, Hall/Larsson trade, St. Louis/Callahan trade, Nash trade and Seguin trade. The cap really has made the NHL less exciting. 

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not going to go through the trade history of every team / GM, but I would say most, if not all have made at least one big(ish) trade over the past 10 seasons. Holland has made plenty minor trades (some good, some bad), but nothing of significance in that time. 

Ya Holland really is at one extreme with this. I believe Sheahan is the first roster player he has traded (non deadline) since Kozlov.

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I mean... out of the 31 GMs, how many actually do big trades.. We don't have a Drouin or Panarin to give up. I mean we have Larkin or Mantha basically. That's it. Mrazek wasn't even taken for free by Vegas. No one offer sheeted AA, not even the KHL would give him the money he wanted. We just don't have the personell to make big moves. 

I mean he's not wrong. They are hard. If you want to make major ones. Like I said, how many of the 31 GMs actually make blockbuster trades without having pieces worth it? 

I don't think you need to have elite players to make a big trade. I'm not expecting him to go out and acquire Doughty or Ekblad or anything, but a top 3 defenseman should be attainable with the pieces we have, without giving up a Larkin or Mantha.

[chaps80 1,591]

Great trade here. Got rid of Sheahan, picked up an energy guy who is coming off a Cup win, upgraded a draft pick, and made room for AA.

Still don’t get why Pittsburgh was so interested in Sheahan that they still wanted to trade for him instead of going with another option by now. Maybe they see potential in him with a team change and different coach? Who knows.

[kickazz 5,459]

10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think you need to have elite players to make a big trade. I'm not expecting him to go out and acquire Doughty or Ekblad or anything, but a top 3 defenseman should be attainable with the pieces we have, without giving up a Larkin or Mantha.

Like who? and for what defenseman?

I just don't see who would come and who would go. It would be easier to drop Larkin/Mantha for a top D young player.

Edited October 22, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

Tatar, Nyquist, Svechnikov to name a few, along with pick(s) / prospect(s). You can't actually think it's impossible for this team to upgrade their defense through trade...

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

I'm just glad we got rid of Sheahan, should have been done months ago but its finally done. Free up that ice time for someone who can use it and take that option away from Blashill during power plays lol.

[kickazz 5,459]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Tatar, Nyquist, Svechnikov to name a few, along with pick(s) / prospect(s). You can't actually think it's impossible for this team to upgrade their defense through trade...

Tatar and Nyquist have cap hits and haven't as good as most people thought originally. We would probably have to give up a high pick with them. 

Svechnikov isn't an NHL player he would probably be in a package. 

So who would we get in return? 

Edited October 22, 2017 by kickazz

[kliq 3,755]

4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Tatar, Nyquist, Svechnikov to name a few, along with pick(s) / prospect(s). You can't actually think it's impossible for this team to upgrade their defense through trade...

The trade I would love to see is AA, our 2018 1st, and E for Trouba

We get that #1 D-man and cap relief/a roster spot

Winnipeg gets a young stud winger and potentially a lottery pick.

Won't happen, but I would love to see it

[kickazz 5,459]

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 You can't actually think it's impossible for this team to upgrade their defense through trade...

No. But I think it’s hard. 

 

[Dabura 12,206]

4 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Tatar and Nyquist have cap hits and haven't as good as most people thought originally. We would probably have to give up a high pick with them. 

Svechnikov isn't an NHL player he would probably be in a package. 

So who would we get in return? 

Jared Spurgeon is one option. The Kings were rumored to be interested in AA and they may be looking to move Jake Muzzin. There are numerous prospects who could easily become top-three NHL defensemen within the next three years and probably wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to acquire, e.g. Haydn Fleury, Jake Bean, Dante Fabbro, Travis Sanheim, Julius Honka, Thomas Chabot.

I think you're coming at this from a "No one's going to give us a P.K. Subban" perspective. And you're right. But there are other options. It doesn't necessarily have to be a proven all-star defenseman.

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Tatar and Nyquist have cap hits and haven't as good as most people thought originally. We would probably have to give up a high pick with them. 

Svechnikov isn't an NHL player he would probably be in a package. 

So who would we get in return? 

We're not going to make a one for one swap like the Drouin for Sergachev trade. Any trade we make would have to be some sort of package including picks / prospects, but we do have the pieces. Who would we trade for? Not sure, but like kliq mentioned, Trouba could be an option, as well as a number of other young defensemen. Just look at what it cost Calgary to get Hamilton out of Boston, a 1st and two 2nds. That's the type of move Holland should be trying to make. I've also mentioned many times, I'd even be okay if it were for a highly touted defensive prospect. There are options out there, Holland just isn't willing or able to pull the trigger...

10 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Jared Spurgeon is one option. The Kings were rumored to be interested in AA and they may be looking to move Jake Muzzin. There are numerous prospects who could easily become top-three NHL defensemen within the next three years and probably wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to acquire, e.g. Haydn Fleury, Jake Bean, Dante Fabbro, Travis Sanheim, Julius Honka, Thomas Chabot.

I think you're coming at this from a "No one's going to give us a P.K. Subban" perspective. And you're right. But there are other options. It doesn't necessarily have to be a proven all-star defenseman.

This.

[brett 1,029]

i dont know anything about wilson hopefully hes an upgrade. half the cap thats good

does aa or wilson play tonight?

[Buppy 1,720]

3 hours ago, kickazz said:

I've been seeing a lot of people post this lately. 

What does that even mean? Holland has done 6 trades in 2017 alone.  

The "trades are hard" thing is just another stupid Holland meme from frustrated fans who think they're being clever. 

 

Just now, brett said:

i dont know anything about wilson hopefully hes an upgrade. half the cap thats good

does aa or wilson play tonight?

AA is not officially signed yet. Wilson is expected to play.

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, brett said:

i dont know anything about wilson hopefully hes an upgrade. half the cap thats good

does aa or wilson play tonight?

Wilson is playing tonight. Athanasiou will likely be another week or so...

[kickazz 5,459]

47 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Jared Spurgeon is one option. The Kings were rumored to be interested in AA and they may be looking to move Jake Muzzin. There are numerous prospects who could easily become top-three NHL defensemen within the next three years and probably wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to acquire, e.g. Haydn Fleury, Jake Bean, Dante Fabbro, Travis Sanheim, Julius Honka, Thomas Chabot.

I think you're coming at this from a "No one's going to give us a P.K. Subban" perspective. And you're right. But there are other options. It doesn't necessarily have to be a proven all-star defenseman.

I feel as though if it was easy, it would have happened a lot more often. Maybe the asking price for some of these players is high? And the risk:benefit ratio might not be appealing for the Wings. Duchene isn't a defenseman but from what I read the asking price is

 

Alternatively with the defenseman we have coming up in our system, maybe they don't see the Fabbros, Beans, Chabots as much more of an upgrade than just waiting it out for 3 or so years till Cholowski, Hickets etc are up. 

We've gotten rid a lot of players we don't need. We've kept our picks and kept our potential future stars. I think they're waiting a few more years to see these defenseman they have drafted to pan out. It's a rebuild from within and it looks to me like it's a waiting game. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by kickazz

[Dabura 12,206]

39 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I feel as though if it was easy, it would have happened a lot more often. Maybe the asking price for some of these players is high? And the risk:benefit ratio might not be appealing for the Wings. Duchene isn't a defenseman but from what I read the asking price is

 

Alternatively with the defenseman we have coming up in our system, maybe they don't see the Fabbros, Beans, Chabots as much more of an upgrade than just waiting it out for 3 or so years till Cholowski, Hickets etc are up. 

We've gotten rid a lot of players we don't need. We've kept our picks and kept our potential future stars. I think they're waiting a few more years to see these defenseman they have drafted to pan out. It's a rebuild from within and it looks to me like it's a waiting game. 

I mean, to be fair to Holland, I can think of some decent reasons why he might be gun-shy. You've hit on some of them here. But, at the same time, we're about five years removed from losing Lidstrom and Rafalski, we've done very little to adequately fill that combined hole, and our D group continues to be our Achilles' heel. I like some of our prospects and I think Green was a great pickup, but I'm not counting on any of our prospects becoming stud NHL defensemen within the next few years and Green is probably gone after this season.

It's a depressing situation and I feel like it could pretty easily be turned into a significantly less depressing situation with a sneaky-good move or two. But Holland, for whatever reasons, doesn't seem at all keen on making a relatively big move for a defenseman, unless it's a veteran UFA signing. Our D continues to degrade. Something has to give.

I think Holland is fully capable of swinging a good trade for a good defenseman. I think he just doesn't want to. I think he's waiting for something perfect to fall into his lap. That strategy -- assuming that's the strategy -- has allowed him to build up what's becoming a pretty solid group of forwards, but, again, our D is suffering. It's frustrating.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Dabura