Official 2018 NHL Amateur Entry Draft Discussion Thread

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 1/20/2018 at 4:25 PM, krsmith17 said:

We kind of are "getting pumped information" indirectly from people extensively watching footage though. We read scouting reports written by draft analyst (reputable guys like McKenzie and Button, among others) who do get inside information from amateur scouts. It's not like 10+ years ago, when we wouldn't even know anyone's name beyond the top few. There's a TON of information accessible to anyone and everyone. I do agree though, that it is a little silly to get so worked up over your team passing on a player you think they should have taken or taking a player you think they shouldn't have, but that's the fun of being a fan of a sports team. It can be kind of frustrating when your team goes way off the board though, and Holland has done that a few times over the years. 

Also, not a single person here watches players from other teams every night, but we're allowed to have opinions on them. What's the difference? I think Kucherov is a phenomenal player, and I've never watched any extensive footage on him. I've watched every single game he's played against the Wings, and maybe 10 other Lightning games in full (one live), but never have I broke down footage, or zoned in on only him. I base my opinion on small sample sizes, highlights, media, and stats. Pretty much the exact same thing most of us base opinions of these draft eligible players on.

These players are a lot younger and not yet developed, but we can still have opinion and projections based on the information available to us. And like I said before, there's a lot of it out there. I haven't done a ton of research yet on any of these players, but I always do leading up to the draft, usually after the season ends. Do I think I know better than the amateur scouts out there watching all the games? Hell no! But there are always going to be players I hope the Red Wings select.

Certainly, but I question the richness and accuracy of the that information.

"He's a player with great vision, great foot work, is a buzz-saw defensively, and has a booming shot from the blue line"

Sound like a great player right? Someone you'd like to draft? Then you look back and realize that that's how they were describing Jakub Kindl. Now that we have a clear picture of Kindl, we would never take that evaluation seriously, or describe him like that. Like what does a booming shot mean? Is he Al Macginnis? Teemu Pulkkinen? Jiri Hudler? It's all just fluffy jargon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well you selected Kucherov... of course you think and I think he's good. You're talking about clearly one of the best players in the world at this game.

I assume you also watch all the games we play against CBJ. Do you have an opinion on Lukas Sedlak? Can you describe his game? What does he add to CBJ's roster?

I don't have an opinion on him, and don't claim to, because I honestly don't know much of anything about him. Now if he puts up 80 points in a season I might start paying attention and developing an opinion.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, I'm not saying it's wrong to have an opinion on these kids. I'm just saying our perspective is very flawed, skewed, and inaccurate. So IMO it's dumb to freak out about it.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

6 hours ago, Dabura said:

Yep. I'm sure thats exactly the reason. Fame, power, and wealth have nothing to do with it! 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 1/20/2018 at 4:25 PM, krsmith17 said:

We kind of are "getting pumped information" indirectly from people extensively watching footage though. We read scouting reports written by draft analyst (reputable guys like McKenzie and Button, among others) who do get inside information from amateur scouts. It's not like 10+ years ago, when we wouldn't even know anyone's name beyond the top few. There's a TON of information accessible to anyone and everyone. I do agree though, that it is a little silly to get so worked up over your team passing on a player you think they should have taken or taking a player you think they shouldn't have, but that's the fun of being a fan of a sports team. It can be kind of frustrating when your team goes way off the board though, and Holland has done that a few times over the years. 

Also, not a single person here watches players from other teams every night, but we're allowed to have opinions on them. What's the difference? I think Kucherov is a phenomenal player, and I've never watched any extensive footage on him. I've watched every single game he's played against the Wings, and maybe 10 other Lightning games in full (one live), but never have I broke down footage, or zoned in on only him. I base my opinion on small sample sizes, highlights, media, and stats. Pretty much the exact same thing most of us base opinions of these draft eligible players on.

These players are a lot younger and not yet developed, but we can still have opinion and projections based on the information available to us. And like I said before, there's a lot of it out there. I haven't done a ton of research yet on any of these players, but I always do leading up to the draft, usually after the season ends. Do I think I know better than the amateur scouts out there watching all the games? Hell no! But there are always going to be players I hope the Red Wings select.

2nd reply

Lets do the math on Wings prospects. Looking at 10 years of drafting, from 2002 to 2012.

Draft picks that lived up to the hype for me: Frk (little early to call, but screw it lets count him), AA, Jarnkrok, Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist, Matthias, Abdelkader, Helm, Franzen, Howard, Quincey, Hudler, Felischman, Filppula, Ericsson.

That's 16 out of 82 draft selections that I would say reached the potential predicted of them. Give or take a few cause you probably disagree on a few names. So based on this rough number the Red Wings are accurate on their draft selections about 20% of the time. Let's be super generous and say we know about 50% of what the Red Wings know about prospects. That would put us at being correct about prospects at about 10% of the time, and wrong 90% of the time.

Then, just to be overly fair, let's say I'm 10% an idiot, and also another 10% biased by my dumb dumb hollandboi rose colored glasses

We're still wrong 7 times out of 10.

It's a total crap shoot. Not long ago this fan base lamented the drafting of Ty Bertuzzi and praised the name of the Pulkcannon. Now Pulkinnen is yesterdays news and Tyler Bertuzzi is in our top 6.

If you're mad about drafting Rasmussen and not Vilardi in 2018 or something like it, you have a lot of misplaced emotions IMO.

Patience is key.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

18 hours ago, Dabura said:

Let's be real: If we don't get the #1 pick and Svechnikov is on the board when we do use our first pick, we're taking Svechnikov. We have his brother in the system, he himself has said he wants to be a Red Wing, he's NHL-ready, and he's probably the safest bet for a future 40-goal scorer in this draft class.

We can debate pros and cons and alternative plans...but there's something to be said for not looking a gift horse in the mouth.

I agree with this. If we aren't landing the NHL ready Dahlin, I am kind of doubting Holland wants to draft another D that may take 3-4 years to debut.  I like Boqvist and Hughes, but are they going to step in a become our top guy next year?  Dahlin would.  If Svechling is NHL ready and he is there, its almost a no brainer to draft him.  I have visions of Svech and Svechling debuting next season and quite frankly, outside of not being twins, they could be our Russian version of the Sedins.

Edited January 23, 2018 by LeftWinger

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

I agree with this. If we aren't landing the NHL ready Dahlin, I am kind of doubting Holland wants to draft another D that may take 3-4 years to debut.  I like Boqvist and Hughes, but are they going to step in a become our top guy next year?  Dahlin would.  If Svechling is NHL ready and he is there, its almost a no brainer to draft him.  I have visions of Svech and Svechling debuting next season and quite frankly, outside of not being twins, they could be our Russian version of the Sedins.

So the question is: if Svech is there when the Wings pick and so is Boqvist and Hughes, who do you take? You could argue Svech because he's is the better player (now at least) plus the whole brother thing. But winger isn't a position of need right now. You could argue picking one of the D because they're in greater need. But they're possibly a greater risk, and what if they don't turn into a top pair defensemen and Svech becomes an elite scorer?

It's a quandary for sure. But I don't think that either would be a mistake. I see both the validity and the discord for both. I'm just hoping for the best and that this doesn't create a flame war in here.

[AtlantaHotWings 987]

Maybe Holland does a Burke and lands the number 1 and number 2 and we get both Dahlin and Svech. Holland then drops the mic and retires...but then I always wake up...

[Jacksoni 418]

27 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

So the question is: if Svech is there when the Wings pick and so is Boqvist and Hughes, who do you take? You could argue Svech because he's is the better player (now at least) plus the whole brother thing. But winger isn't a position of need right now. You could argue picking one of the D because they're in greater need. But they're possibly a greater risk, and what if they don't turn into a top pair defensemen and Svech becomes an elite scorer?

It's a quandary for sure. But I don't think that either would be a mistake. I see both the validity and the discord for both. I'm just hoping for the best and that this doesn't create a flame war in here.

Svech. Silence your thoughts of alternatives. Bro's over ho's, 'bro'.

Having them both would likely result in higher compete and positive pressure to perform if management handles them properly.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

25 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Maybe Holland does a Burke and lands the number 1 and number 2 and we get both Dahlin and Svech. Holland then drops the mic and retires...but then I always wake up...

You're such a tease. 

[Dabura 12,207]

5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I agree with this. If we aren't landing the NHL ready Dahlin, I am kind of doubting Holland wants to draft another D that may take 3-4 years to debut.  I like Boqvist and Hughes, but are they going to step in a become our top guy next year?  Dahlin would.  If Svechling is NHL ready and he is there, its almost a no brainer to draft him.  I have visions of Svech and Svechling debuting next season and quite frankly, outside of not being twins, they could be our Russian version of the Sedins.

3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

So the question is: if Svech is there when the Wings pick and so is Boqvist and Hughes, who do you take? You could argue Svech because he's is the better player (now at least) plus the whole brother thing. But winger isn't a position of need right now. You could argue picking one of the D because they're in greater need. But they're possibly a greater risk, and what if they don't turn into a top pair defensemen and Svech becomes an elite scorer?

It's a quandary for sure. But I don't think that either would be a mistake. I see both the validity and the discord for both. I'm just hoping for the best and that this doesn't create a flame war in here.

To be clear, I'm not saying the Wings won't have an appetite for a Boqvist/Hughes type defenseman. They absolutely will. I'm just saying Svechnikov is such an appealing package that I can't see the Wings not taking him if he's available.

Are we deeper on the wing than we are at center and on defense? I suppose. But I think every position is a position of need for us. We don't have a set core that we can feel really good about building around, so everything's up in the air at this time. We do have a number of good wingers in the system, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. A few years ago we had an abundance of promising young defensemen in the pipeline and, well, here we are.

My ideal non-Dahlin result: We get Svechnikov and load up on defensemen with most of our other picks. If that means missing out on some of the really sexy defensemen in the first half of the 1st round, so be it. Defensemen are such a crapshoot that we're probably just as likely to pull a 1D from the 2nd or 3rd round. Go for quantity.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Dabura

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I think Svechling is listed as both a C and W.

[Dabura 12,207]

38 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I think Svechling is listed as both a C and W.

I wouldn't put any stock in that. He's gonna be a winger at the pro level.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

57 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I wouldn't put any stock in that. He's gonna be a winger at the pro level.

SOURCE?!?!?!

[Dabura 12,207]

37 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

SOURCE?!?!?!

 

[Dabura 12,207]

"Craig Button, the Director of Scouting for TSN, joins us on Episode 47 of The Red and White Authority to discuss the top prospects in the 2018 NHL Entry Draft."

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/multimedia/podcasts

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

"Craig Button, the Director of Scouting for TSN, joins us on Episode 47 of The Red and White Authority to discuss the top prospects in the 2018 NHL Entry Draft."

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/multimedia/podcasts

Seen that last night. Haven't had a chance to listen yet though. That's my plan for the flight home tomorrow. I've listened to every episode of The Red and White Authority, and I'd highly recommend it to anyone that enjoys Red Wings podcasts. Art is awesome!

[Dabura 12,207]

13 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Seen that last night. Haven't had a chance to listen yet though. That's my plan for the flight home tomorrow. I've listened to every episode of The Red and White Authority, and I'd highly recommend it to anyone that enjoys Red Wings podcasts. Art is awesome!

Haven't listened to it either and I'm definitely looking forward to it. Button's not everyone's cup of tea, but he does know his stuff.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Haven't listened to it either and I'm definitely looking forward to it. Button's not everyone's cup of tea, but he does know his stuff.

Yeah, for sure. He's my go-to when it comes to anything Draft related.

[Dabura 12,207]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, for sure. He's my go-to when it comes to anything Draft related.

Same here.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Ugh, I guess anything can happen...

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I am getting a bit intrigued with the rise of Jett Woo. In a mock draft I seen him going 8th. I admit I don't know too much about him except he has a cool ass name and I can see each time he scores this would play on the scoreboard:

 

[Dabura 12,207]

I'm not too familiar with Woo, but my rough impression is that he's more of a maybe-take-a-chance-on-him-if-he's-available-in-the-2nd-round kind of player, as opposed to a player you'd feel really good about taking in the 1st round of a deep draft. His numbers aren't all that impressive this season and there are questions about his ability to put up points at higher levels. Taking him in the 1st could be a reach.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

22 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'm not too familiar with Woo, but my rough impression is that he's more of a maybe-take-a-chance-on-him-if-he's-available-in-the-2nd-round kind of player, as opposed to a player you'd feel really good about taking in the 1st round of a deep draft. His numbers aren't all that impressive this season and there are questions about his ability to put up points at higher levels. Taking him in the 1st could be a reach.

Well then he is ours! Rasmussen was not supposed to go so high either! All the insider were shocked he went in the top 10! This fits Holland to a tee!

 

 

[Andy Pred 48 337]

ok so here's my thinking after looking at the way we are looking at ending up in the lottery. i think the first 2 picks will be out of our reach but anything after is in play. One of these 4 will be picked by the Wings in the first round.

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

33 minutes ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

ok so here's my thinking after looking at the way we are looking at ending up in the lottery. i think the first 2 picks will be out of our reach but anything after is in play. One of these 4 will be picked by the Wings in the first round.

 

Andy, you forgot to label your pictures     -10 points

D+      See me after class

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I am getting a bit intrigued with the rise of Jett Woo. In a mock draft I seen him going 8th. I admit I don't know too much about him except he has a cool ass name and I can see each time he scores this would play on the scoreboard:

 

His name makes it sound like he's a speedy, offensive, right handed D. He's not. There are too many better D ahead of him.