Official 2018 NHL Amateur Entry Draft Discussion Thread

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

+1, I loved that show. Fight me.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

+1, I loved that show. Fight me.

[kickazz 5,459]

On 6/7/2018 at 9:44 AM, F.Michael said:

You know things are pretty slow around these parts when w're at each others throats over RH vs LH...

Also when the same bitching is pouring into 3 different threads. I'm about to start a thread called "Hannah Montana" and I'm sure everyone will start talking about either current prospects or previous or future draft picks on there too. It'll be the same convo from 2 weeks ago.

Edited June 8, 2018 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Also when the same bitching is pouring into 3 different threads. I'm about to start a thread called "Hannah Montana" and I'm sure everyone will start talking about previous or future draft picks on there too. It'll be the same convo from 2 weeks ago.

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we are doomed to repeat them for the first time

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

35 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we are doomed to repeat them for the first time

Is that Confusious or Yogi Berra ?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

51 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Is that Confusious or Yogi Berra ?

Eh who cares, it's all the same crap anyway

[krsmith17 7,191]

Tyler Dellow of The Athletic wrote an interesting article based on Eric Tulsky's model on the cost of trading up in the draft.

https://theathletic.com/382776/2018/06/08/dellow-on-the-value-of-draft-picks-and-a-look-at-reasonable-trades-the-canadian-teams-could-make/

He only looked at the 5 Canadian teams; Montreal - 3rd, Ottawa - 4th, Vancouver - 7th, Edmonton - 10th, Toronto - 25th, (Calgary and Winnipeg don't have a 1st round pick in this year's draft). Detroit were mentioned as a trade partner for all five picks.

According to the model and what Dellow sees as fair value, we'd have to give up the following to move up for each pick...

3rd overall - 6 and one or (more likely) two of 30, 33, 36

4th overall - looks like a typo in the article, but I would assume similar to the 3rd overall...

7th overall - 30, 33, 36 and 67

10th overall - 30, 33 and 36

25th overall - 30 and 67

I've already said that I'm against trading up from our 6th overall, but trading up to add another top 10 pick (7-10) really intrigues me. This model is based on draft picks only, but what would it cost if we added a player / prospect / pick(s) in future drafts? Based on the two trades involving the 7th and 10th overall picks, would Athanasiou, Vegas' 1st round pick or Ottawa's 2nd round pick, plus the Islanders 2019 2nd round pick be enough? Fair value for both sides? Too much? Not enough? I'd personally love for Holland to pull off this sort of trade to get both Bouchard and Wahlstrom. I think (hope) Holland will be aggressive, but I doubt he pulls this off...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

36 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Tyler Dellow of The Athletic wrote an interesting article based on Eric Tulsky's model on the cost of trading up in the draft.

https://theathletic.com/382776/2018/06/08/dellow-on-the-value-of-draft-picks-and-a-look-at-reasonable-trades-the-canadian-teams-could-make/

He only looked at the 5 Canadian teams; Montreal - 3rd, Ottawa - 4th, Vancouver - 7th, Edmonton - 10th, Toronto - 25th, (Calgary and Winnipeg don't have a 1st round pick in this year's draft). Detroit were mentioned as a trade partner for all five picks.

According to the model and what Dellow sees as fair value, we'd have to give up the following to move up for each pick...

3rd overall - 6 and one or (more likely) two of 30, 33, 36

4th overall - looks like a typo in the article, but I would assume similar to the 3rd overall...

7th overall - 30, 33, 36 and 67

10th overall - 30, 33 and 36

25th overall - 30 and 67

I've already said that I'm against trading up from our 6th overall, but trading up to add another top 10 pick (7-10) really intrigues me. This model is based on draft picks only, but what would it cost if we added a player / prospect / pick(s) in future drafts? Based on the two trades involving the 7th and 10th overall picks, would Athanasiou, Vegas' 1st round pick or Ottawa's 2nd round pick, plus the Islanders 2019 2nd round pick be enough? Fair value for both sides? Too much? Not enough? I'd personally love for Holland to pull off this sort of trade to get both Bouchard and Wahlstrom. I think (hope) Holland will be aggressive, but I doubt he pulls this off...

Thanks for this. 

I just can't see a team giving up a 7th overall pick for four second rounders. 

I'd be all over that though if it was a thing.

[krsmith17 7,191]

25 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I do that trade with Vancouver all day.  Dobson + Wahlstrom makes the draft a huge success.  Doesn't matter what follows after.

For sure. If the trade is with Vancouver, I'd personally hope Bouchard is still available, and take Bouchard / Wahlstrom at 6 / 7. If the trade is with Edmonton, I'd take Wahlstrom at 6, and hope Dobson is still available at 10. Either scenario would be a huge shot in the arm for this organization.

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Thanks for this. 

I just can't see a team giving up a 7th overall pick for four second rounders. 

I'd be all over that though if it was a thing.

I agree. I don't think the 4 picks would get that deal done. However, it is Chiarelli we're talking about here... Back when MacTavish was running the Oilers draft, in 2013 he traded 37th overall for 83, 88, 94, 96, and 113 in two trades. The 10th overall, especially in such a deep draft, is much different than the 37th overall in a relatively weak draft though.

What do you think of my proposed trade? Still not enough? What would you change / add to make it work for both sides?

I know it's never going to happen, but it's still fun to discuss.

[BinMucker94 302]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

For sure. If the trade is with Vancouver, I'd personally hope Bouchard is still available, and take Bouchard / Wahlstrom at 6 / 7. If the trade is with Edmonton, I'd take Wahlstrom at 6, and hope Dobson is still available at 10. Either scenario would be a huge shot in the arm for this organization.

I agree. I don't think the 4 picks would get that deal done. However, it is Chiarelli we're talking about here... Back when MacTavish was running the Oilers draft, in 2013 he traded 37th overall for 83, 88, 94, 96, and 113 in two trades. The 10th overall, especially in such a deep draft, is much different than the 37th overall in a relatively weak draft though.

What do you think of my proposed trade? Still not enough? What would you change / add to make it work for both sides?

I know it's never going to happen, but it's still fun to discuss.

If AA, Vegas 1st, and 2019 2nd gets us Wahlstrom and (Bouchard, Dobson, Hughes, or Boqvist), I would definitely pull the trigger on that. Especially knowing that we have a bunch of second round picks left that we could use to grab a lot of decent prospects or trade up into the mid/late first round.

If the other team involved has decent interest in AA and think he has the ability to help out their top 6 and speed up their rebuild it seems like a fair trade. Not sure who/if anyone values him that much. I’d bet on Edmonton making that trade but not sure about anyone else.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Tyler Dellow of The Athletic wrote an interesting article based on Eric Tulsky's model on the cost of trading up in the draft.

https://theathletic.com/382776/2018/06/08/dellow-on-the-value-of-draft-picks-and-a-look-at-reasonable-trades-the-canadian-teams-could-make/

He only looked at the 5 Canadian teams; Montreal - 3rd, Ottawa - 4th, Vancouver - 7th, Edmonton - 10th, Toronto - 25th, (Calgary and Winnipeg don't have a 1st round pick in this year's draft). Detroit were mentioned as a trade partner for all five picks.

According to the model and what Dellow sees as fair value, we'd have to give up the following to move up for each pick...

3rd overall - 6 and one or (more likely) two of 30, 33, 36

4th overall - looks like a typo in the article, but I would assume similar to the 3rd overall...

7th overall - 30, 33, 36 and 67

10th overall - 30, 33 and 36

25th overall - 30 and 67

I've already said that I'm against trading up from our 6th overall, but trading up to add another top 10 pick (7-10) really intrigues me. This model is based on draft picks only, but what would it cost if we added a player / prospect / pick(s) in future drafts? Based on the two trades involving the 7th and 10th overall picks, would Athanasiou, Vegas' 1st round pick or Ottawa's 2nd round pick, plus the Islanders 2019 2nd round pick be enough? Fair value for both sides? Too much? Not enough? I'd personally love for Holland to pull off this sort of trade to get both Bouchard and Wahlstrom. I think (hope) Holland will be aggressive, but I doubt he pulls this off...

Here is the recent history of our 2nd round picks when we look at trading some of them to move up. Granted out of all the players in the list, only Ferraro and Jurco were drafted in the early 2nd round where we will be drafting this year. But gives you some comparison of the level of player we would be giving up to move up. 

2017- Lindstrom

2016- Givani Smith and Hronek

2015- None

2014- None

2013- Nastasiuk and Tyler Bertuzzi 

2012- Martin Frk

2011- Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul

2010- Jarnkrok

2009- Ferraro, Tatar

2008- None

[amato 3,210]

I don’t know if I’d trade four picks for the 7th but it’s prettyyy tempting to at least call and see what it’ll take to get 7 or 10. I really really like Wahlstrom and Tkachuk and taking one of them at 6 (I know, Tkachuk is a long shot) and one of the four defenseman at 7/10 would be amazing.

Although, at the same time, I’ve started to look at the 25-40 range of the TSN final draft rankings and there’s a lot to like there too.

Trading up to 15-20 if a guy like Sandin or Boqvist start falling would interest me a lot too. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

23 minutes ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

Here is the recent history of our 2nd round picks when we look at trading some of them to move up. Granted out of all the players in the list, only Ferraro and Jurco were drafted in the early 2nd round where we will be drafting this year. But gives you some comparison of the level of player we would be giving up to move up. 

2017- Lindstrom

2016- Givani Smith and Hronek

2015- None

2014- None

2013- Nastasiuk and Tyler Bertuzzi 

2012- Martin Frk

2011- Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul

2010- Jarnkrok

2009- Ferraro, Tatar

2008- None

Are you saying we should or shouldn't try to move up? I could be wrong, but it almost seems like you're saying we shouldn't, but based on that list, and 2nd round picks in general, I think you'd be crazy not to. That is a pretty lackluster group of players. A lot of busts and sub-par NHLers. If we can move up into the top 10, I'd pay the price (within reason) to get up there.

[Dabura 12,207]

35 minutes ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

2017- Lindstrom

2016- Givani Smith and Hronek

2015- None

2014- None

2013- Nastasiuk and Tyler Bertuzzi 

2012- Martin Frk

2011- Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul

2010- Jarnkrok

2009- Ferraro, Tatar

2008- None

woof

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, amato said:

I don’t know if I’d trade four picks for the 7th but it’s prettyyy tempting to at least call and see what it’ll take to get 7 or 10. I really really like Wahlstrom and Tkachuk and taking one of them at 6 (I know, Tkachuk is a long shot) and one of the four defenseman at 7/10 would be amazing.

Although, at the same time, I’ve started to look at the 25-40 range of the TSN final draft rankings and there’s a lot to like there too.

Trading up to 15-20 if a guy like Sandin or Boqvist start falling would interest me a lot too. 

I agree. I'd prefer to hold onto a couple of those 2nd rounders, because there are a bunch of players I like in that range. However, if we can trade one or two, plus, to move up into the top 10, or even 15, I'd do it. I'm a big believer in quality over quantity.

I'd like to trade picks in next year's draft, and then replenish them at next year's trade deadline. We need to start restocking that cupboard.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Are you saying we should or shouldn't try to move up? I could be wrong, but it almost seems like you're saying we shouldn't, but based on that list, and 2nd round picks in general, I think you'd be crazy not to. That is a pretty lackluster group of players. A lot of busts and sub-par NHLers. If we can move up into the top 10, I'd pay the price (within reason) to get up there.

I didn’t say we should or shouldn’t. Was just giving guys data for their arguments. The only real impact player on the list (so far) is Tatar. And even he had his obvious short comings. If we have a guy we are really sure on I don’t mind trading up. I don’t mind giving up 6 and 30 to get Zadina either. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

32 minutes ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

I didn’t say we should or shouldn’t. Was just giving guys data for their arguments. The only real impact player on the list (so far) is Tatar. And even he had his obvious short comings. If we have a guy we are really sure on I don’t mind trading up. I don’t mind giving up 6 and 30 to get Zadina either. 

Gotcha.

I'm against trading up from 6, because I don't see a big enough drop off from 3 to 6, to offset the loss of what would likely be 2 high 2nd round picks. Maybe if we were getting a Zadina calibre center or defenseman at 3, I'd consider it, but not for another (right-handed) winger...

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Gotcha.

I'm against trading up from 6, because I don't see a big enough drop off from 3 to 6, to offset the loss of what would likely be 2 high 2nd round picks. Maybe if we were getting a Zadina calibre center or defenseman at 3, I'd consider it, but not for another (right-handed) winger...

I agree Zadina doesn’t necessarily fill a positional need but he does fill a team need of a pure goal scoring sniper. I truly believe he will be a super star player. So I def don’t mind giving up #30 to get him. 

[Dabura 12,207]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

According to the model and what Dellow sees as fair value, we'd have to give up the following to move up for each pick...

3rd overall - 6 and one or (more likely) two of 30, 33, 36

10th overall - 30, 33 and 36

I do either of those all day, every day.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 6/9/2018 at 1:14 PM, Dabura said:

I do either of those all day, every day.

All Day, All Day...Domino Dancing

If you get that one, then we both have a CD collection that we hide from people.

[krsmith17 7,191]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:44 PM, Dabura said:

I do either of those all day, every day.

What about 7th overall?

[joesuffP 1,746]

I’ve got my heart set on Bouchard. Couldn’t imagine taking a forward in this draft

[krsmith17 7,191]

23 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

I’ve got my heart set on Bouchard. Couldn’t imagine taking a forward in this draft

I think we'll take at least a few with our 11 picks... 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

I think we all agree, Xavier Bouchard is the right choice

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I think we all agree, Xavier Bouchard is the right choice

No.