Rumors Thread

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This.

And This.

We're not getting any of Doughty, Karlsson or Ekman-Larsson. Not a chance. Sure, if they did hit free agency, I'm sure Holland (if he's still here) would go all in on any of the aforementioned, but there's no way any of Los Angeles, Ottawa, or even Arizona let these studs walk for nothing. If they can't afford them (they'll find a way), they'd trade them next season, rather than let them walk in the offseason. If there's one thing Ken Holland has always done as general manager, it's throw big money at the top UFA's, unfortunately, none will hit free agency, so the only chance we'd have at any of them, is trade, and that has been a major weakness for Holland.

I've said it several times, but if we're trading for a defenseman, I'd rather go after high end potential, rather than an established high end defenseman. They're way too costly. Young un-established defensemen could be attainable if we had a GM willing to make some moves to upgrade this team...

But what such players are, have been available? I think Sergachev fits into that category, but I don't Mantha or AA would be valued as much as Drouin was.

Tyler Myers (though he was already established at the time) for Mantha was a rumour, but I'm glad we turned that down. But even when looking at that trade, Jets had to give Kane and Bogosian to make that work. I don't even know if Mantha would have been enough to get it done.

But anyway, that and Hamilton, Burns and other trades for young Dmen were for guys already pretty established. Few teams trade such promising Dmen when they haven't even been given a chance to establish themselves. 

I don't think there's many of these trades out there just waiting if our GM just has some gumption (my oldtimey word for the day). Less that are worthwhile/feasible since so much is asked in return for young promising Dmen. Otherwise, they would be made by some of the GMs that are more trade-friendly.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

12 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I like how people say we cant afford Kane's lockerroom issues.  Why not?  We suck.  We could probably use a guy who doesnt want to listen to people who continually suck.  

 

I also like how the same people think it's possible for our gm to snag a good, young defenseman from another team.  He's never been able to do it, and hasn't been able to bring in a good, OLD defenseman in over 10 years.  Holland is an idiot.  I dont know what makes people think he's some kind of master negotiator.  You know what he's a master of?  Taking first round picks, getting them to the NHL in 5 years, and then trading them for 3rd round picks that never make the NHL.

First bold: Just because Holland hasn't done it doesn't mean we shouldn't argue that he SHOULD do it.

Second bold; This one I agree with.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

But what such players are, have been available? I think Sergachev fits into that category, but I don't Mantha or AA would be valued as much as Drouin was.

Tyler Myers (though he was already established at the time) for Mantha was a rumour, but I'm glad we turned that down. But even when looking at that trade, Jets had to give Kane and Bogosian to make that work. I don't even know if Mantha would have been enough to get it done.

But anyway, that and Hamilton, Burns and other trades for young Dmen were for guys already pretty established. Few teams trade such promising Dmen when they haven't even been given a chance to establish themselves. 

I don't think there's many of these trades out there just waiting if our GM just has some gumption (my oldtimey word for the day). Less that are worthwhile/feasible since so much is asked in return for young promising Dmen. Otherwise, they would be made by some of the GMs that are more trade-friendly.

First bold: Right off the top of my head, the Seth Jones and Adam Larsson trades come to mind. So it does happen; particularly trading from an area of strength to fill an area of need. Wings have forwards to trade, other teams have dmen to spare.

2nd bold: Don't forget that young, promising d-men are traded all the time. Every time a contender wants to bolster their roster by acquiring good players from rebuilding teams they send picks and prospects the other way. Many times those prospects are promising d-men.

3rd bold: Winnipeg and Carolina are 2 teams that Holland should be looking at.

Winnipeg has Trouba and Morrissey. Even if they trade one of those guys, they still have Buff, Kulikov, Enstrom and Myers. They can afford to trade one and still have a solid D. Plus, If they lose Kane, they'll need to bolster their forward corp.

As for Carolina, they have 4 good young defenseman that Holland should consider. Nashville is a perfect example that you can't horde dmen. Hanifin is a pending RFA and hasn't been extended yet. If I were Holland, I would not only be wealthier, but I would also be going after Hanifin. Again, the Canes can afford to lose him because they are deep there. 

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

First bold: Right off the top of my head, the Seth Jones and Adam Larsson trades come to mind. So it does happen; particularly trading from an area of strength to fill an area of need. Wings have forwards to trade, other teams have dmen to spare.

2nd bold: Don't forget that young, promising d-men are traded all the time. Every time a contender wants to bolster their roster by acquiring good players from rebuilding teams they send picks and prospects the other way. Many times those prospects are promising d-men.

3rd bold: Winnipeg and Carolina are 2 teams that Holland should be looking at.

Winnipeg has Trouba and Morrissey. Even if they trade one of those guys, they still have Buff, Kulikov, Enstrom and Myers. They can afford to trade one and still have a solid D. Plus, If they lose Kane, they'll need to bolster their forward corp.

As for Carolina, they have 4 good young defenseman that Holland should consider. Nashville is a perfect example that you can't horde dmen. Hanifin is a pending RFA and hasn't been extended yet. If I were Holland, I would not only be wealthier, but I would also be going after Hanifin. Again, the Canes can afford to lose him because they are deep there. 

I wasn't arguing that young Dmen aren't traded. It's more about krsmith saying unestablished guys that would be cheaper than an established top defender and that we could therefore pull off.

Larsson was already 5 years in and chosen to an All star team, playing more than 22+ minutes as a top pairing D man. He was establish and cost a hell of a lot. I don't think we have a piece as valuable as Hall was - I mean he was a 1st over all pick, a captain with 5 50+ season (and an 80 pt season under his belt). To me that means it's not really a feasible trade when we're talking about "why doesn't Holland make a trade." Just whether a trade happened isn't the full consideration.

Seth Jones was closer to being unestablished since he was under Weber, Josi, Ellis, and Ekholm in the depth chart, but he still cost Ryan Johanson, who was 4th overall, 5 years in with 2 60 pt seasons (1 at 71 pts) under his belt. I don't think any of Larkin, Mantha, or AA would be valued as much that. So to me, It's another trade that isn't really feasible for us at the moment or recent past.

So, I still don't see examples of trades that have been pulled off for high end young D men that are all that feasible. The Hamilton example is there (and we could debate whether giving up our 1st+2 2nds would be a good idea right now - Not sure what I'd do - It'd be hard to think of now that we could be in line for a top prospect this year)

But, I agree that we should look for a young Dman by trade and I'd give a lot for one, but they are rare and unlikely when we don't have a proven elite forward to offer in return.

P.S. you say if Winnipeg loses Kane, but they lost him years ago in the Myers trade. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

31 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

I wasn't arguing that young Dmen aren't traded. It's more about krsmith saying unestablished guys that would be cheaper than an established top defender and that we could therefore pull off.

Larsson was already 5 years in and chosen to an All star team, playing more than 22+ minutes as a top pairing D man. He was establish and cost a hell of a lot. I don't think we have a piece as valuable as Hall was - I mean he was a 1st over all pick, a captain with 5 50+ season (and an 80 pt season under his belt). To me that means it's not really a feasible trade when we're talking about "why doesn't Holland make a trade." Just whether a trade happened isn't the full consideration.

Seth Jones was closer to being unestablished since he was under Weber, Josi, Ellis, and Ekholm in the depth chart, but he still cost Ryan Johanson, who was 4th overall, 5 years in with 2 60 pt seasons (1 at 71 pts) under his belt. I don't think any of Larkin, Mantha, or AA would be valued as much that. So to me, It's another trade that isn't really feasible for us at the moment or recent past.

So, I still don't see examples of trades that have been pulled off for high end young D men that are all that feasible. The Hamilton example is there (and we could debate whether giving up our 1st+2 2nds would be a good idea right now - Not sure what I'd do - It'd be hard to think of now that we could be in line for a top prospect this year)

But, I agree that we should look for a young Dman by trade and I'd give a lot for one, but they are rare and unlikely when we don't have a proven elite forward to offer in return.

P.S. you say if Winnipeg loses Kane, but they lost him years ago in the Myers trade. 

OOPS! That's right. It would be kind of hard to have Myers and Kane on the same team then. Not to mention its already been mentioned in this thread about acquiring him from Buffalo. I don't know why I was thinking that, if it's the similar jerseys or what, but I tend to mix up the players on those 2 teams.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

11 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

OOPS! That's right. It would be kind of hard to have Myers and Kane on the same team then. Not to mention its already been mentioned in this thread about acquiring him from Buffalo. I don't know why I was thinking that, if it's the similar jerseys or what, but I tend to mix up the players on those 2 teams.

Happens to everyone. Buffalo is where players go to be forgotten, after all (sorry Wilson)

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

But what such players are, have been available? I think Sergachev fits into that category, but I don't Mantha or AA would be valued as much as Drouin was.

Tyler Myers (though he was already established at the time) for Mantha was a rumour, but I'm glad we turned that down. But even when looking at that trade, Jets had to give Kane and Bogosian to make that work. I don't even know if Mantha would have been enough to get it done.

But anyway, that and Hamilton, Burns and other trades for young Dmen were for guys already pretty established. Few teams trade such promising Dmen when they haven't even been given a chance to establish themselves. 

I don't think there's many of these trades out there just waiting if our GM just has some gumption (my oldtimey word for the day). Less that are worthwhile/feasible since so much is asked in return for young promising Dmen. Otherwise, they would be made by some of the GMs that are more trade-friendly.

The thing is, most players that are moved aren't usually known to be available. I don't think anyone expected Sergachev to be moved. Same goes for Jones. To be clear though, as I said, I'm talking about unestablished players (high end junior prospects or first year AHLers). And I wouldn't be willing to move Larkin or Mantha in such a deal.

It's Holland's job to call around and find a deal that fits. We've needed an upgrade on our blue line for years now, but for whatever reason, he's unwilling to make a trade, and is content with the stop gap UFA's. He should be calling teams that have an abundance of defensemen / defensive prospects, such as Anaheim, Nashville, Winnipeg, Carolina, Philadelphia, etc.

One player I mentioned I wanted for over a year was Shea Theodore. He was traded to Vegas for future considerations (aka to protect Vatanen, who was just traded...) Crazy stupid. Theodore is going to be a stud, and I would have overpaid for him prior to the expansion draft. Another player I really wanted to go after, prior to him blowing up, was Montour. No chance we get him now, but he could have been had a couple years ago. I'm also high / highish on Bean, Fabbro, among a few others.

Sure, I'd like to get a Hanifin, but that's not even the type of player I'd be going after, because as you pointed out, he'd likely cost a lot more than any of us would be willing to give up. We'd be talking Larkin / Mantha, plus. No thanks!

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The thing is, most players that are moved aren't usually known to be available. I don't think anyone expected Sergachev to be moved. Same goes for Jones. To be clear though, as I said, I'm talking about unestablished players (high end junior prospects or first year AHLers). And I wouldn't be willing to move Larkin or Mantha in such a deal.

It's Holland's job to call around and find a deal that fits. We've needed an upgrade on our blue line for years now, but for whatever reason, he's unwilling to make a trade, and is content with the stop gap UFA's. He should be calling teams that have an abundance of defensemen / defensive prospects, such as Anaheim, Nashville, Winnipeg, Carolina, Philadelphia, etc.

One player I mentioned I wanted for over a year was Shea Theodore. He was traded to Vegas for future considerations (aka to protect Vatanen, who was just traded...) Crazy stupid. Theodore is going to be a stud, and I would have overpaid for him prior to the expansion draft. Another player I really wanted to go after, prior to him blowing up, was Montour. No chance we get him now, but he could have been had a couple years ago. I'm also high / highish on Bean, Fabbro, among a few others.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for that kind of trade if we could find it - I just don't think they're around very often or much at all. For instance, you mention players like Montour, who I also really liked. The problem is that The Ducks also liked him a whole lot even before he blew up - there was a lot of hype around him. I doubt you would pry him away from them, especially if you're talking about a trade not involving Larkin and Mantha

Same with Bean and Fabbro, I'm sure their teams like them very much. They're both 1st round picks and developing nicely - I doubt you're prying them away without giving one of our 1st round players player who's more promising or more proven (aka someone like Mantha, Larkin).

And you're right that we don't know who's available, but we do who's been traded and I don't know many trades like you describe (unproven high end dmen/propect for someone less valuable than Mantha) If there were some examples from the last while, I'd be more inclined to think that there's some of these possible trades out there for Holland to find.

The Sergachev example is one, but like I said Drouin was more valuable than even Larkin or Mantha. He had just had a 53 pt season and was a 3rd overall pick. So I don't think you can use that as an example of the type of trade you're talking about.

The Shea Theodore story is weird, but he was only given up as a way to protect Manson just as much as to protect Vatanen. I think Vatanen was kept around in case Montour was a flop, but has now proven expendable. Also, they were trying to get rid of Clayton Stoner's caphit (maybe so they could re-sign someone? I forget why...)

Edited December 5, 2017 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

It's Holland's job to call around and find a deal that fits. We've needed an upgrade on our blue line for years now, but for whatever reason, he's unwilling to make a trade, and is content with the stop gap UFA's. He should be calling teams that have an abundance of defensemen / defensive prospects, such as Anaheim, Nashville, Winnipeg, Carolina, Philadelphia, etc.

I have no idea where you get this from? How the do you know whether or not Holland has made phone calls or attempted trades. You have absolutely zero idea about what goes on in there. 

There's so many teams that need a 1D, how many GMs have actually successfully pulled it off?

The only possible chance I would have seen given our circumstances was probably Fowler for Nyquist and 1st pick or something years ago. But Anaheim ended up keeping Fowler in the end. Probably for the best since Fowler isn't doing so hot..

Edited December 5, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for that kind of trade if we could find it - I just don't think they're around very often or much at all. For instance, you mention players like Montour, who I also really liked. The problem is that The Ducks also liked him a whole lot even before he blew up - there was a lot of hype around him. I doubt you would pry him away from them, especially if you're talking about a trade not involving Larkin and Mantha

Same with Bean and Fabbro, I'm sure their teams like them very much. They're both 1st round picks and developing nicely - I doubt you're prying them away without giving one of our 1st round players player who's more promising or more proven (aka someone like Mantha, Larkin).

And you're right that we don't know who's available, but we do who's been traded and I don't know many trades like you describe (unproven high end dmen/propect for someone less valuable than Mantha) If there were some examples from the last while, I'd be more inclined to think that there's some of these possible trades out there for Holland to find.

The Sergachev example is one, but like I said Drouin was more valuable than even Larkin or Mantha. He had just had a 53 pt season and was a 3rd overall pick. So I don't think you can use that as an example of the type of trade you're talking about.

The Shea Theodore story is weird, but he was only given up as a way to protect Manson just as much as to protect Vatanen. I think Vatanen was kept around in case Montour was a flop, but has now proven expendable. Also, they were trying to get rid of Clayton Stoner's caphit (maybe so they could re-sign someone? I forget why...)

I hear ya, but I just don't think we'd necessarily have to trade Larkin or Mantha to get a deal done. A team like Nashville that is stacked at defense, can afford to give up a high end defense prospect. If they're looking to go on a run this season, they could look at a player like Nyquist / Tatar for added offensive depth, and be willing to trade a Fabbro. Teams that believe they have what it takes to win it all (I think Poile does with that group), will usually be willing to give up a small part of the future for the now. Of course it would take more than Nyquist / Tatar, but if we threw in a prospect and / or a pick, I believe that could be enough to get such a deal done. I agree that we probably wouldn't have much of a chance at Bean, just because Carolina aren't in the same position, with an opportunity to go on a deep playoff run.

All I'm saying is, I do believe there are defensemen out there to be had, even if it takes overpaying, without giving up one of our big two. I'd trade literally anyone else with the exception of maybe Cholowski, including Athanasiou, Svechnikov, 2018 2nd round pick(s), 2019 1st round pick, etc. depending on the player. I doubt Holland is willing to move all of those pieces, which is why I believe he won't get a deal done. Bottom line, we need to upgrade our defense in a big way, and until we do that, we're going to be a mediocre to bad team...

5 hours ago, kickazz said:

I have no idea where you get this from? How the do you know whether or not Holland has made phone calls or attempted trades. You have absolutely zero idea about what goes on in there. 

There's so many teams that need a 1D, how many GMs have actually successfully pulled it off?

The only possible chance I would have seen given our circumstances was probably Fowler for Nyquist and 1st pick or something years ago. But Anaheim ended up keeping Fowler in the end. Probably for the best since Fowler isn't doing so hot..

Where did I say that Holland isn't making phone calls? I believe him when he says he's "kicking tires", I'm just not convinced he's kicking the right tires, or willing to give up what it would take to get a deal done. I think Holland over values his players / prospects, even more so than some of us fans.

How do you know there are "so many teams that need a 1D"? I guess the same way I know there are so many teams that are looking for offensive depth for a playoff run. Sure, there are a lot of teams looking for top pairing defensemen, but there are also teams that aren't, and would be willing to give up a highly touted defense prospect to add an offensive punch for a playoff run. There are always trading partners, it just takes balls to pull off the impactful trades. Unfortunately, that's something Holland has been lacking forever now...

[gcom007 1,465]

Of course Holland overvalued his prospects. He’s been utterly delusional about them for a long time. He was lucky to be around for some of the best prospect luck ever over the years and lost touch with reality. He’s been completely wasteful with far too many guys in this decade, and I really do wonder if our system is to blame for some of our prospect’s shortcomings even; I have to think our slow system combined with a mediocre pro team is not an inspiring environment, and we don’t have the same class of vets around steadying the ship as we once did. It definitely isn’t the system it once was. 

[brett 1,029]

rumor

blashill is signing extension for another 5 years

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I know this was already mentioned in another thread, but I can't find it now, so I am posting it here.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nhl/the-ottawa-senators-have-reportedly-asked-for-all-no-trade-lists-including-erik-karlsson’s/ar-BBGuCfo

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/12/10/16757548/erik-karlsson-trade-rumors-ottawa-senators-no-trade-lists

I thought for sure he was staying put. But he may be too expensive for a lower cap team like the Senators to re-sign. If they trade him this summer, the return will be huge. Expect to give up a 1st round pick in this year's draft, a future star, a solid roster player, and more to get him.

Personally, I wouldn't. He's an elite D yes. But giving up a 1st, one of Larkin or Mantha, one of Tatar or Nyquist, and more is too much for a guy who will be declining when the kids hit their primes.

It will still be fun to watch tho. Someone will pay BIG TIME!

[kickazz 5,459]

You know how everyone thinks Zetterberg is the Swedish Don? Well if there’s any point we want this to actually be true, it’s now. Erik Karlsson and Henrik Zetterberg are very close friends.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Personally, I wouldn't. He's an elite D yes. But giving up a 1st, one of Larkin or Mantha, one of Tatar or Nyquist, and more is too much for a guy who will be declining when the kids hit their primes.

Karlsson is generational talent. He might go down as one of the best offensive defenseman in league history if he continues to play like he has in his career. You wouldn’t trade Larkin or Mantha for him? Shoot I would trade all of Larkin, Mantha and Nyquist for that guy. 

Nyquist and Tatar aren’t much more than secondary scorers and the jury is still out on Larkin and Mantha. They could be elite, they could end up like Nyquist and Tatar. But Karlsson is already established himself as the best of the best and he will be for at least another 10 years. This guy wouldn’t jist fix our defense, he would fix our offense too. 

Karlsson is younger than Nyquist and the same as Tatar’s age btw.

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I know this was already mentioned in another thread, but I can't find it now, so I am posting it here.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nhl/the-ottawa-senators-have-reportedly-asked-for-all-no-trade-lists-including-erik-karlsson’s/ar-BBGuCfo

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/12/10/16757548/erik-karlsson-trade-rumors-ottawa-senators-no-trade-lists

I thought for sure he was staying put. But he may be too expensive for a lower cap team like the Senators to re-sign. If they trade him this summer, the return will be huge. Expect to give up a 1st round pick in this year's draft, a future star, a solid roster player, and more to get him.

Personally, I wouldn't. He's an elite D yes. But giving up a 1st, one of Larkin or Mantha, one of Tatar or Nyquist, and more is too much for a guy who will be declining when the kids hit their primes.

It will still be fun to watch tho. Someone will pay BIG TIME!

I would definitely have to consider this. In the end, I probably wouldn't do it, if for no other reason than Karlsson's injury history. I also wouldn't want to trade that 1st round pick, for the off chance that it could end up being Dahlin. I'd much rather have Dahlin, Larkin / Mantha, and Nyquist / Tatar, than just Karlsson. Regardless, I think Ottawa would receive better offers if Karlsson were actually were to be shopped.

5 hours ago, kickazz said:

You know how everyone thinks Zetterberg is the Swedish Don? Well if there’s any point we want this to actually be true, it’s now. Erik Karlsson and Henrik Zetterberg are very close friends.

Karlsson is generational talent. He might go down as one of the best offensive defenseman in league history if he continues to play like he has in his career. You wouldn’t trade Larkin or Mantha for him? Shoot I would trade all of Larkin, Mantha and Nyquist for that guy. 

Nyquist and Tatar aren’t much more than secondary scorers and the jury is still out on Larkin and Mantha. They could be elite, they could end up like Nyquist and Tatar. But Karlsson is already established himself as the best of the best and he will be for at least another 10 years. This guy wouldn’t jist fix our defense, he would fix our offense too. 

Karlsson is younger than Nyquist and the same as Tatar’s age btw.

I know you're probably not serious, but that would be an awful trade. Sure, we'd get that coveted number one, but it would completely wipe out any sort of offense we have. Karlsson is an unbelievable talent, but he can't do it by himself. If Tatar and a 37 year old Zetterberg are your only decent forwards, you're in big trouble...

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

 

I know you're probably not serious, but that would be an awful trade. Sure, we'd get that coveted number one, but it would completely wipe out any sort of offense we have. Karlsson is an unbelievable talent, but he can't do it by himself. If Tatar and a 37 year old Zetterberg are your only decent forwards, you're in big trouble...

Trade Mantha, Nyquist and 2 first rounders for Karlsson 

This team would still have Larkin, AA, Tatar, Svech

Edited December 11, 2017 by kickazz

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Trade Mantha, Nyquist and 2 first rounders for Karlsson 

This team would still have Larkin, AA, Tatar, Svech

I really would hate so much to lose mantha 

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

3 hours ago, kickazz said:

Trade Mantha, Nyquist and 2 first rounders for Karlsson 

This team would still have Larkin, AA, Tatar, Svech

Besides any other consideration, Karlsson is due to be a UFA in 2 years, so that would be such a massive overpayment for 1.5 years of the dude. 

[Jacksoni 418]

2 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Besides any other consideration, Karlsson is due to be a UFA in 2 years, so that would be such a massive overpayment for 1.5 years of the dude. 

Yup. He is the bomb. But one man can't save us, need legit multi pickups through drafting or less likely, through trades. Drop what you can and get younglings is my suggestion.

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Besides any other consideration, Karlsson is due to be a UFA in 2 years, so that would be such a massive overpayment for 1.5 years of the dude. 

But we have a Swedish Don who would convince him to stay. I’m not kidding either I think the Swedish pipeline is pretty impactful. Pretty sure Alfredsson bought a house here. Franzen’s still lives her (another good friend of Karlsson according to his instagram)

Karlsson would gave plenty of reasons to stay. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by kickazz

[Dabura 12,207]

Ryan Lambert (hisss):

https://sports.yahoo.com/learned-erik-karlsson-blowing-senators-164621165.html

It’s an unenviable spot for Dorion, because if you trade Karlsson (and you basically have to, either now or in the summer) you might as well rip the whole thing down and sell it for scrap. A Senators team without Karlsson is a squirrel on the highway, and it’ll only be a matter of time before it’s crushed again and again by oncoming traffic.

I know we’re supposed to think, “Oh he’s in such a bad slump right now, how can he make these demands,” but let’s be realistic. Ottawa has a 53.9 CF% when he’s on the ice this season, and when he’s off? It’s just 46.9. Karlsson has been on the ice for 27 goals in 23 games. Ottawa as a team has just 49 more in 28. And this despite the fact that Karlsson has an on-ice shooting percentage right now of only 7.9 in all situations (the league average is 8.9).

[ . . . . ]

Of course, we also don’t know what a Karlsson trade ends up looking like. Given what GMs have recently had to give up to get okay-ish, cheap-ish middle-pairing guys who have a little bit more room to grow, there’s no calculable package a GM could give up, especially in-season, to acquire a player of Karlsson’s talent level. No such trade has ever been carried out in the cap era, and would therefore rewrite the book. If you can’t even get full value on a Hall-for-Larsson swap, the raft of picks, prospects and young skilled NHL players you’d have to concede would be incredible.

I know we talked a lot about sticking to your guns with Joe Sakic throughout the Duchene saga, but in the end, Colorado didn’t get anything much that’s going to help the team be competitive in the near-term. He got the best haul he could, which was a young, good NHL defenseman (Samuel Girard), a pretty good forward prospect (Vlad Kamenev), an okay-but-by-no-means-great first-year college player (Shane Bowers), a salary dump (Andrew Hammond), and four draft picks (including two first-rounders).

Could Ottawa reasonably expect more of a haul than that? Especially if there’s only one other team involved? It’s tough to imagine they would, simply because few would have the ability to give up more than that. Can you really ask a team for its entire draft for a year or two? You’re not getting Karlsson, or even a semi-reasonable facsimile, back, so you have to accept that any Karlsson trade is one you probably end up losing, and losing badly.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Trade Green for a 1st, trade Nyquist for a 1st. Trade Mantha, Tatar and those two firsts for Karlsson. Keep our 1st, draft Dahlin.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

41 minutes ago, kickazz said:

But we have a Swedish Don who would convince him to stay. I’m not kidding either I think the Swedish pipeline is pretty impactful. Pretty sure Alfredsson bought a house here. Franzen’s still lives her (another good friend of Karlsson according to his instagram)

Karlsson would gave plenty of reasons to stay. 

I'm sure Z's a charming guy, but that's a lot to risk on his abilities of persuasion.

And, besides, after Karlsson's current contract Nyquist and Kronwall's will also be done, E will have 1 year left and Z will have 2 so there's really not much to say that his Swedish friends would be around much if he were to sign on here after his current contract was up. The mafia could be broken up by then.

And Alfredsson was made a Canadian citizen and given the key to Ottawa in 2015, so I think he moved back there (or maybe he has multiple homes, but I doubt he would have kept a place in Detroit since he has little history there).

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

31 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Trade Green for a 1st, trade Nyquist for a 1st. Trade Mantha, Tatar and those two firsts for Karlsson. Keep our 1st, draft Dahlin.

Yeah no thanks, Pretty sure the odds against Karlsson signing long term in Detroit is second to none.

Edited December 11, 2017 by LoveMyRedWings56

[kickazz 5,459]

27 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

I'm sure Z's a charming guy, but that's a lot to risk on his abilities of persuasion.

And, besides, after Karlsson's current contract Nyquist and Kronwall's will also be done, E will have 1 year left and Z will have 2 so there's really not much to say that his Swedish friends would be around much if he were to sign on here after his current contract was up. The mafia could be broken up by then.

And Alfredsson was made a Canadian citizen and given the key to Ottawa in 2015, so I think he moved back there (or maybe he has multiple homes, but I doubt he would have kept a place in Detroit since he has little history there).

Swedish persuasion is just one of the factors. And I'm not so sure these guys would leave the U.S. Maybe Z leaves since he has a young family, but Franzen's kids are American born aren't they? I doubt he just leaves. We also have a lot of Swedish players drafted coming in the system. Lindstrom (our 2nd round pick last year), Holmstrom, Elfstrom and others. Maybe some of them don't pan out, but I assume as long as Hakkan is our scout, there will plenty of Swedes drafted for years to come, especially since our 2nd highest pick last year was a Swede. 

Either way, Giving up Nyquist and Mantha for possibly the best defenseman in the league is not as bad as some may think. Mantha isn't Brett Hull and Nyquist isn't Paul Kariya. But Karlsson is following in Lidstrom's footsteps. You simply don't pass on that opportunity just because Karlsson "might" not re-sign here. If you put the tools in place for a guy like him, and you're good at your job as a manager, you can definitely keep the guy. 

We have Larkin, AA, Tatar, Rasmussen, Svechnikov. So many forwards with potential coming through. Giving up 2 of them for a generational talent, especially one that is a defenseman which are near impossible to get a hold of these days is really not that bad. 

I'm fully certain Ken Holland will pick up his phone and make a call to Ottawa as will the other GMs. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by kickazz