Rumors Thread

[chaps80 1,591]

16 hours ago, kliq said:

Well it depends on what your perception of Mrazek is. 

IF you believe he has elite potential, being only 25 years old you keep him.

IF you feel he is what he is, then you trade him for a second in a heart beat. (this is what I would do)

Agreed Jimmy won't get a 2nd now, but a year from now when he is on an expiring contract IF a contender loses their goalie, I think you could get that and more. That's a big IF though.

You really think teams would want Jimmy at the deadline and give up a 2nd rounder or more? For what? He’s not really known as a big game playoff goalie or anything. No ones trading for Jimmy for playoff insurance. Guy has played 5 playoff games since 2014 and he was a disaster in those, and even got injured. You usually have great posts, but come on...

[Dabura 12,207]

24 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

He still speaks the truth. Holland should have been off the “make the playoffs” train since the manhandling by the Bruins in 2014. Only reason they lasted 7 against Tampa in 2015 was Mrazek. 2016 they lasted 5 games.

Dumb deadline deals for vets near retirement (Erik Cole’s career was done after his injury before the playoffs even began) and routine off-season band aid fixes like Nieson and Daley. The good times are over. Play as much youth as you can, no matter the result. Does it really matter if the losses pile up more? No. They’re doomed anyways. High first rounders are good for rebuilds and stuff too. 

I'm just saying he writes like a pretentious English major undergrad who likes to sniff his own farts. He often makes good points, but it's hard to take him seriously sometimes.

To be clear: I don't really disagree with what he's saying here. I just wish he'd write like a human being.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Dabura

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

It’s still a dumb move future wise. 

Teams are calling about Mrazek when he’s barely played and his numbers suck. What does that tell you? It’s an opportunity for them. A huge one if he plays fairly regularly and turns things around. Could be a steal and a half. Not many teams get calls about their backup when he’s in the situation he’s in. You would think they’d have better options with backups who have played more and have better numbers. Any trade for him is potential based, and the possible return greatly outweighs the pittance they may get him for.

Wonder if anyone’s asked about Howard? 

They're calling because he's 25, he's flashy, and like you said there is potential. Maybe he does better on a team with better defense, but he hasn't gotten the job done in almost 2 years of playing now. His stats are awful. Obviously he's already mentally checked out of Detroit, or he's just been figured out that he is always out of position. He has a bad attitude, if he can't win games as a back up then how is he supposed to earn the #1 spot back?

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

Great article here by Krupa on the Wings “process”. Basically refusal to pass the torch to youth like they should be. Mantha still not playing enough, AA not playing nearly enough, Bertuzzi ( if healthy) and Hicketts not being on the opening night roster, and not playing Mrazek enough to get him back on track. Trading him for a pick now would be miserable management of his career. Riding the “hot goalie” doesn’t matter, because they aren’t doing anything anyways. 

Basically, stop worrying about wins and playoffs and giving vets ice time. It’s rebuild time. Let the kids play, learn  and make their mistakes now. Doesn’t hurt anything. 

https://amp.detroitnews.com/amp/108700394

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/2018.html

Larkin's leading our forwards in icetime.

Mantha's 2nd among winger's just behind Nyquist (by :15) and 4th behind Lark, Gus, Z. He's had some rough stretches this year (the past few games included) so I think it's understandable that he's not up with Lakrin for icetime (also, he doesn't PK like Larkin does).

I think these are fine. 

AA Should be getting more time, but he has been pretty underwhelming so far this year. A lot that could be credited to him missing training camp and coming in cold. Hopefully his icetime increases as he gets his game together.

Mrazek should have gotten a few more games, but he hasn't made much of a case for himself when he's been in. I feel like the organization has already made a decision that he's not part of our future since they exposed him and reportedly tried to trade him in the offseason. I disagreed with those decisions, but if Howie is the way we're going for the next few years, then he should be the one playing the majority. And I don't see a conspiracy against youth here. Blash named Mrazek the #1 pretty early into his career and before he had really earned it.

But I guess I somewhat agree with the spirit of the article and I hope we'll see callups from Bertuzzi and others soon (and less Wit - sorry fight lovers).

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

You really think teams would want Jimmy at the deadline and give up a 2nd rounder or more? For what? He’s not really known as a big game playoff goalie or anything. No ones trading for Jimmy for playoff insurance. Guy has played 5 playoff games since 2014 and he was a disaster in those, and even got injured. You usually have great posts, but come on...

Re-Read what I wrote, I didn't say anything about insurance (ie. in case there is an injury). What i said, is if a team that is a contender loses their starting goalie come trade deadline time, with Jimmy being on an expiring contract I could see them getting a 2nd or more. I stand by that. Other teams don't have irrational hate towards Jimmy that you do.

Imagine a year from now a team like LA loses Quick. Do you really think they are going to go with Darcy Kuemper? Or if the Leafs lose Andersson, that they would go with Curtis McElhinney? Of course not, and there are not going to be many starting goaltenders on expiring contracts available.  

I admit that this is not likely, but I never insinuated that. 

Also, you know I was talking next year right? I dont think that about this year.

Edited December 17, 2017 by kliq

[Dabura 12,207]

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/12/14/which-teams-should-trade-for-red-wings-petr-mrazek/

[DickieDunn 2,571]

8 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Great article here by Krupa on the Wings “process”. Basically refusal to pass the torch to youth like they should be. Mantha still not playing enough, AA not playing nearly enough, Bertuzzi ( if healthy) and Hicketts not being on the opening night roster, and not playing Mrazek enough to get him back on track. Trading him for a pick now would be miserable management of his career. Riding the “hot goalie” doesn’t matter, because they aren’t doing anything anyways. 

Basically, stop worrying about wins and playoffs and giving vets ice time. It’s rebuild time. Let the kids play, learn  and make their mistakes now. Doesn’t hurt anything. 

https://amp.detroitnews.com/amp/108700394

 

All the playing time in the world isn't going to fix Mrazek.  Either he's too stubborn/unable to fix the holes in his game and/or his psyche is too fragile to handle being an NHL player.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I agree that they should be going with a full blown youth movement.  I've said that for a couple years now.  Over-ripe doesn't work unless you have actual talent ahead of the kids and are winning.

I disagree that Mrazek should be playing just because.  He's a headcase, and another in a long line of NHL goalies who flamed out after a hot start.

[kickazz 5,459]

On 12/17/2017 at 11:25 AM, DickieDunn said:

Unless ownership is telling him to keep pushing.  

 

On 12/17/2017 at 11:30 AM, kliq said:

I've always thought this. A GM makes the moves, but ownership decides the overall direction. 

With that being said, I would love us to trade Green to the Leafs for a 1st. Just imagine we do that, then they hit a slump and nose dive and not make the playoffs. The thought of getting a Dhalin for Green would make me so happy lol. 

Based off the Tigers and Red Wings, I just don't think Chris Illitch is as into "set us up to win asap" as Mike Illitch was. I think he's a lot more passive about the sports teams.

Edited December 18, 2017 by kickazz

[Richdg 267]

Gotta love how the rumors thread turned into the team direction thread! LOL

[kickazz 5,459]

Not sure where else to ask about this (not going to start a thread over it) and since this is a Rumors thread I figured it's synonymous with Fake news. Does anyone have access to this article? I want to read it. Maybe someone on reddit might post but maybe not.

https://theathletic.com/184069/2017/12/18/henrik-zetterberg-leaving-a-lasting-impact/

Edited December 19, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Not sure where else to ask about this (not going to start a thread over it) and since this is a Rumors thread I figured it's synonymous with Fake news. Does anyone have access to this article? I want to read it. Maybe someone on reddit might post but maybe not.

https://theathletic.com/184069/2017/12/18/henrik-zetterberg-leaving-a-lasting-impact/

I skimmed it. It's about what a rough time Zberg had at Sochi and how he thought his career might be over (back probs). But now he's teaching the young ones to start a new gen of great Red Wings. It's a feel good piece. But a good piece. I enjoy Custance and his writing style thou.

[Jacksoni 418]

Rumors have it Mantha will start on the 4th line in tonight's game at Islanders. Athanasiou will replace him on the first line.

[Dabura 12,207]

Jamie Oleksiak nets the Stars a conditional 4th.

https://www.nhl.com/news/stars-trade-jamie-oleksiak-to-penguins/c-294176484?tid=278542340

Good news for us, I suppose, as Oleksiak isn't any better than Jensen or Ouellet.

[Richdg 267]

Back a page or 2 ago when we were quoting Holland..... makes me wan to throw up..... Holland said something along the lines of you can't turn over the entire roster in a year.

There in is the problem. We don't need to turn over the entire roster. Even if we needed to NO ONE expects it to happen in 1 year. We need to make 3-5 moves this season/summer and 3-5 next season/summer, outside of the draft. That is not only possible many teams do it. Let me provide an example.

Outs:

1. Move Green and Mrazek by the trade deadline. Move 1.

2. Trade Tatar before the draft. Move 2.

3. LTIR Kornwall. Move 3.

4. Buyout Ericsson. Move 4.

Not sure there is a RW fan out there that is going to really disagree with any of those moves.

Ins:

1. 1st round pick in 2018 for Green. Move 1.

2. Pick up a young Dman who is just making the NHL for Nyquist or Tatar. Move 2.

3. UFA a John Carlson and a good defensive Dman like De Haan or Cole. Move 3.

4. Call up Lil Bert, Svechnikov, and Rasmussen.

None of what I have listed is out of the realm of possibility. Yes the names can change. But what part of this list isn't possible?

Now do the same next season.

Look to move out Howard, Nyquist, Helm, and if at all possible Neilsson. That is 8 maybe 9 guys out over 2 seasons and 6 coming in.Plus 3 1st round draft picks that could make the team.

 

 

[kliq 3,755]

43 minutes ago, Richdg said:

Back a page or 2 ago when we were quoting Holland..... makes me wan to throw up..... Holland said something along the lines of you can't turn over the entire roster in a year.

There in is the problem. We don't need to turn over the entire roster. Even if we needed to NO ONE expects it to happen in 1 year. We need to make 3-5 moves this season/summer and 3-5 next season/summer, outside of the draft. That is not only possible many teams do it. Let me provide an example.

Outs:

1. Move Green and Mrazek by the trade deadline. Move 1.

2. Trade Tatar before the draft. Move 2.

3. LTIR Kornwall. Move 3.

4. Buyout Ericsson. Move 4.

Not sure there is a RW fan out there that is going to really disagree with any of those moves.

Ins:

1. 1st round pick in 2018 for Green. Move 1.

2. Pick up a young Dman who is just making the NHL for Nyquist or Tatar. Move 2.

3. UFA a John Carlson and a good defensive Dman like De Haan or Cole. Move 3.

4. Call up Lil Bert, Svechnikov, and Rasmussen.

None of what I have listed is out of the realm of possibility. Yes the names can change. But what part of this list isn't possible?

Now do the same next season.

Look to move out Howard, Nyquist, Helm, and if at all possible Neilsson. That is 8 maybe 9 guys out over 2 seasons and 6 coming in.Plus 3 1st round draft picks that could make the team.

 

 

The Green move I agree with, trade him. Tatar I am on the fence about, I wouldnt be upset, but I dont want to trade him either. I like both him an Nyquist, but I see the argument that both shouldn't be here.

#3 - You can't just "LTIR" someone. If Kronwall wants to play, and docs say he can play, there is nothing Holland or whomever the GM is can do.

#4 - Bad move. We are not winning the Cup next year, so why handcuff ourselves for double the length of the contract with a buyout. The only way I buyout E is if we can sign JT. I would rather trade him and retain as much salary as we can.

I dont know much about De Haan so I won't comment, and I would say stay away from Carlson. If we sign him he will become the next DD. I am not sold that he is a legit #1. He may look it playing on Washington with all that talent, but on Detroit he will likely be exposed.

I like the call-ups, but I would add Hicketts. If we need to trade Jensen or XO so be it.

 

 

 

[Richdg 267]

13 minutes ago, kliq said:

The Green move I agree with, trade him. Tatar I am on the fence about, I wouldnt be upset, but I dont want to trade him either. I like both him an Nyquist, but I see the argument that both shouldn't be here.

#3 - You can't just "LTIR" someone. If Kronwall wants to play, and docs say he can play, there is nothing Holland or whomever the GM is can do.

#4 - Bad move. We are not winning the Cup next year, so why handcuff ourselves for double the length of the contract with a buyout. The only way I buyout E is if we can sign JT. I would rather trade him and retain as much salary as we can.

I dont know much about De Haan so I won't comment, and I would say stay away from Carlson. If we sign him he will become the next DD. I am not sold that he is a legit #1. He may look it playing on Washington with all that talent, but on Detroit he will likely be exposed.

I like the call-ups, but I would add Hicketts. If we need to trade Jensen or XO so be it.

 

 

 

If you buyout E it costs us 1.5 million per year. There is no way to trade him and only retain that amount. Buying him out also frees up 2.8 million per year. if we want to add major pieces we need both the roster space and the cap space.

De Haan and Cole are kinda twins. Strong defensive Dmen that will get you 30 points per year. In other words good second pair guys. We need 1 to pair with DD. Both are LHed is their only negative.

No Carlson is not a #1. He is a #2. We badly need both. He is a great defensive player and good for 40+ points per year. That will not change. Having Carlson, DD, and 1 of the De haan/cole pair makes a very strong 2 through 4 on the BL. Now everyone is playing in the correct position which will greatly help! Next year when we are more ready we can go after a #1.

I doubt Hicketts ever amounts to anything in the NHL. He doesn't have a dominate physical trait. Be it size or speed or agility. I just don't see him making it. Give him a shot? Sure. Lets find out if I am right or not. Then we know.

[kliq 3,755]

51 minutes ago, Richdg said:

If you buyout E it costs us 1.5 million per year. There is no way to trade him and only retain that amount. Buying him out also frees up 2.8 million per year. if we want to add major pieces we need both the roster space and the cap space.

De Haan and Cole are kinda twins. Strong defensive Dmen that will get you 30 points per year. In other words good second pair guys. We need 1 to pair with DD. Both are LHed is their only negative.

No Carlson is not a #1. He is a #2. We badly need both. He is a great defensive player and good for 40+ points per year. That will not change. Having Carlson, DD, and 1 of the De haan/cole pair makes a very strong 2 through 4 on the BL. Now everyone is playing in the correct position which will greatly help! Next year when we are more ready we can go after a #1.

I doubt Hicketts ever amounts to anything in the NHL. He doesn't have a dominate physical trait. Be it size or speed or agility. I just don't see him making it. Give him a shot? Sure. Lets find out if I am right or not. Then we know.

You're trying too hard to fix this team overnight. We don't need to add pieces next year unless they are "major" pieces. No more signing middle tier type players. Buying out E, whats the point? We dont need cap space right now, we will need it in 2-3 years. We have tons of very good 2nd/3rd line talent, there is no need for more. Bottom line, we need elite guys.

Whether we acquire them through the draft or via UFA (ie. JT, Karlson, OEL, Doughty etc.) that is what we need to do. Rather then overpaying more middle of the road guys, I'd rather just play the kids. Now if we acquire a game changer, I will change my tune. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by kliq

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, kliq said:

You're trying to hard to fix this team overnight. We don't need to add pieces next year unless they are "major" pieces. No more signing middle tier type players. Buying out E, whats the point? We dont need cap space right now, we will need it more in 2-3 years. We have tons of very good 2nd/3rd line talent right now, there is no need for more as the bottom line is that we need elite guys.

Whether we acquire them through the draft or via UFA (ie. JT, Karlson, OEL, Doughty etc.) that is what we need. Rather then overpaying more middle of the road guys, I'd rather just play the kids then sign guys like you are suggesting. Now if we acquire a game changer, I will change my tune. 

This exactly. Not to mention, De Haan and Cole aren't much better than Ericsson. Certainly not worth the cost of the buyout in my opinion. I'd be open to a trade possibility, but again, only if it's for a significant upgrade.

[Richdg 267]

34 minutes ago, kliq said:

You're trying too hard to fix this team overnight. We don't need to add pieces next year unless they are "major" pieces. No more signing middle tier type players. Buying out E, whats the point? We dont need cap space right now, we will need it in 2-3 years. We have tons of very good 2nd/3rd line talent, there is no need for more. Bottom line, we need elite guys.

Whether we acquire them through the draft or via UFA (ie. JT, Karlson, OEL, Doughty etc.) that is what we need to do. Rather then overpaying more middle of the road guys, I'd rather just play the kids. Now if we acquire a game changer, I will change my tune. 

Over night? No. But it has been 4 years already and we are still getting worse. We don't need 10 new players added to the team/system. We need our youth brought up and 3-5 additional guys almost all need to be on the BL. We also don't have any high end BL prospects. Cholowski is most likely a 2nd pair guy and he is our ONLY legit BL prospect.

If you look at our team, we have 11 F's that are signed our RFA's next season and beyond. That leaves 3 spots open for Lil Bert, Svechnikov, and Rasmussen to be added. That completes our F rebuild for the most part. But when we look at the BL it is down right ugly.

We have 1 legit 2nd pair guy in Dekeyser and everyone else is a borderline 3rd pair/AHL caliber player. Kornwall is done due to injury, Ericsson never made it, Daley is toast, Oullett and Jensen are at best 3rd line guys. Witkowski is a 3rd pair guy that brings toughness. But to add we need to free up the roster spots and the cap. That has to come from somewhere. You start by getting rid of the 2 high priced Dmen that are done in Kronwall and Ericsson. By LTIRing Kronwall and buying out Ericsson you free up 7.5 million in cap space and 2 roster spots. Add that to the 3-5 million we have left over after resigning Mantha, Larkin, AA, Frk, and bringing up the 3 young guys and you have 11 million or so to add a couple of Dmen. You add a Carlson and 1 of De Haan and Cole-both legit second pair guys, and our BL takes a giant step forward. Now work hard to find that super to lead the BL corp and we are ready to start going up the mountain again.

To do what I want still is going to take another 1.5 seasons. That means at best we are ready to roll for the 2019/2020 season. Trying to do thing strictly through the draft will take another 5 years. Minimum! Do you or any fan really want to wait that long? I don't. I want  a team that wins Cups! Not "wins" top 5 picks!

[kliq 3,755]

33 minutes ago, Richdg said:

Over night? No. But it has been 4 years already and we are still getting worse. We don't need 10 new players added to the team/system. We need our youth brought up and 3-5 additional guys almost all need to be on the BL. We also don't have any high end BL prospects. Cholowski is most likely a 2nd pair guy and he is our ONLY legit BL prospect.

If you look at our team, we have 11 F's that are signed our RFA's next season and beyond. That leaves 3 spots open for Lil Bert, Svechnikov, and Rasmussen to be added. That completes our F rebuild for the most part. But when we look at the BL it is down right ugly.

We have 1 legit 2nd pair guy in Dekeyser and everyone else is a borderline 3rd pair/AHL caliber player. Kornwall is done due to injury, Ericsson never made it, Daley is toast, Oullett and Jensen are at best 3rd line guys. Witkowski is a 3rd pair guy that brings toughness. But to add we need to free up the roster spots and the cap. That has to come from somewhere. You start by getting rid of the 2 high priced Dmen that are done in Kronwall and Ericsson. By LTIRing Kronwall and buying out Ericsson you free up 7.5 million in cap space and 2 roster spots. Add that to the 3-5 million we have left over after resigning Mantha, Larkin, AA, Frk, and bringing up the 3 young guys and you have 11 million or so to add a couple of Dmen. You add a Carlson and 1 of De Haan and Cole-both legit second pair guys, and our BL takes a giant step forward. Now work hard to find that super to lead the BL corp and we are ready to start going up the mountain again.

To do what I want still is going to take another 1.5 seasons. That means at best we are ready to roll for the 2019/2020 season. Trying to do thing strictly through the draft will take another 5 years. Minimum! Do you or any fan really want to wait that long? I don't. I want  a team that wins Cups! Not "wins" top 5 picks!

Your way won't win cups, your way will land us in cap trouble with more mediocre players. You sound like you think change automatically means we will be better. Getting rid of mediocre player A and getting mediocre player B is a lateral move. You way will just lead to nothing.

I want us to shed cap, sign elite players, or trade for a potentially elite player (ie. Trouba/Hamilton etc.). I dont want more Daley's or Abby's or Helms like you are proposing. 

I see what you are doing, you are saying things like "Ericsson never made it, Daley is toast, Oullett and Jensen are at best 3rd line guys" in an attempt to make guys like Carlson, De Haan and Cole seem much better then they are. Guys like that are fine to add to a team, but if you dont have elite talent above them, they wont make a difference. 

 

Again, why do you keep saying "lets LTIR Kronwall", I dont think you know how that works. I remember last year you were criticizing Holland for not using LTIR when it was a situation that he couldn't and @Buppy tried to explain it to you.

Here is how it works, for a player to be put on LTIR, a doctor needs to determine that he CANNOT play anymore due to injury (ie. Franzen). Kronwall is playing with I believe essentially no cartlidge in his knee. This is the kind of injury where if the player can tolerate the pain, the player is allowed to play. The GM cannot TELL Kronwall they are going to LTIR him, that is not allowed, it MUST come from the doctor. Not to mention, LTIR is ONLY used when you exceed the cap ceiling and have a guy on IR. If you are under the cap, LTIR is not a thing.

 

[kliq 3,755]

53 minutes ago, Richdg said:

Daley is toast

Do you even watch the games? From what I have seen Daley has been a good addition this year, and appears to be a great 2nd pairing guy. Most others on here are happy with him, and there was an article today in the FREEP talking about how he has helped us. 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/12/20/detroit-red-wings-trevor-daley-very-easy-play/969077001/

This is the point I was trying to make in the post above, you are making our players sound worse then they are, so your mediocre players that you want to bring in look like giant upgrades. But its not true.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, kliq said:

Do you even watch the games? From what I have seen Daley has been a good addition this year, and appears to be a great 2nd pairing guy. Most others on here are happy with him, and there was an article today in the FREEP talking about how he has helped us. 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/12/20/detroit-red-wings-trevor-daley-very-easy-play/969077001/

This is the point I was trying to make in the post above, you are making our players sound worse then they are, so your mediocre players that you want to bring in look like giant upgrades. But its not true.

Trevor Daley has been a fantastic addition. Especially at his price. Who's better than him? Green? Realistically we should be trying to keep Green and Daley and trading the rest.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I wasn't a huge fan of the Daley signing, I wanted some of the kids to get a look before we signed a player outside the organization. That and the Athanasiou situation. I knew Daley would be a solid addition, just didn't think it was the right move at the time. I do think most other options could have done as well as his 5 points in 32 games, and -13, but I don't think anyone would have been given his tough assignments. Not only is he out there against the leagues best every night, but I believe he's the main reason for Ericsson's resurgence this season. Ericsson has been great thus far, arguably our most steady defender. It's odd though that Ericsson and Daley have been a staple for most of this season and Ericsson is a team best +3 and Daley is a team worst -13...

[Rick D 350]

10 hours ago, kliq said:

Here is how it works, for a player to be put on LTIR, a doctor needs to determine that he CANNOT play anymore due to injury (ie. Franzen). Kronwall is playing with I believe essentially no cartlidge in his knee. This is the kind of injury where if the player can tolerate the pain, the player is allowed to play. The GM cannot TELL Kronwall they are going to LTIR him, that is not allowed, it MUST come from the doctor. Not to mention, LTIR is ONLY used when you exceed the cap ceiling and have a guy on IR. If you are under the cap, LTIR is not a thing.

 

Isn't there a 10% rule too? I'm pretty sure Franzen + Kronwall =  > 10% of total cap.