Rumors Thread

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

26 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I’m not talking about Mrazek signing any qualifying offer. He can reject it, remain an RFA, and negotiate another deal. It can be for any amount or term. If he signed the qualifier, yes, the team would be on the hook for $4 million. Or if he’s offer sheeted (not happening) and accepts, then Detroit has to match or let him go and take draft picks. Or, like you said, he can choose UFA and Detroit can sign him for less then. It’s all up to Mrazek basically. 

There are instances where players haven’t earned the set qualifier and deserve less. Just as there are instances where the player has earned the qualifier and deserves the same or more. It has to work both ways, or what’s the point of the RFA status? Both sides have to benefit. His qualifier is a set price if accepted, but it can be rejected and negotiations can then begin. Yes, it’s rare that those result in less money, but the fact is they CAN.

If you guys don’t agree with that, I dunno what else to say. Maybe the CBA should stipulate that any deal signed by an RFA has to be for more money if they reject the qualifying offer. But it does not. Loophole?

Maybe technically you're right that he could reject the offer and take less, but there's no realistic situation where that's going to come into play. For one thing, If he did that the player's union would be pissed at him. Secondly, he probably doesn't hate money, so he's going to take it. 

The likely scenarios are us making that one year deal offer to keep him and give him a chance to earn a longer deal. Or he becomes a free agent and then he has great negotiating possibilities 

If he wants to sign for less in Detroit they'll discuss that and he'll sign after free agency starts. Why would they go your convoluted way? just so he can sign a few weeks earlier and have less negotiating power/ contract/team options?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Why do I feel like we're shuffling dead horses on the Titanic?

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

18 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Why do I feel like we're shuffling dead horses on the Titanic?

Because Holland and Blashill are still running everything and have point to recover a once proud franchise.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

http://themalikreport.com/2018/01/29/jon-coopers-zinger/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Haha, this is amazing and, while meant to be funny, absolutely true. Blashill is a bad coach, at least the NHL level.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

14 hours ago, chaps80 said:

I’m not talking about Mrazek signing any qualifying offer. He can reject it, remain an RFA, and negotiate another deal. It can be for any amount or term. If he signed the qualifier, yes, the team would be on the hook for $4 million. Or if he’s offer sheeted (not happening) and accepts, then Detroit has to match or let him go and take draft picks. Or, like you said, he can choose UFA and Detroit can sign him for less then. It’s all up to Mrazek basically. 

There are instances where players haven’t earned the set qualifier and deserve less. Just as there are instances where the player has earned the qualifier and deserves the same or more. It has to work both ways, or what’s the point of the RFA status? Both sides have to benefit. His qualifier is a set price if accepted, but it can be rejected and negotiations can then begin. Yes, it’s rare that those result in less money, but the fact is they CAN.

If you guys don’t agree with that, I dunno what else to say. Maybe the CBA should stipulate that any deal signed by an RFA has to be for more money if they reject the qualifying offer. But it does not. Loophole?

Yes. Yes you were lol

[DickieDunn 2,571]

19 hours ago, chaps80 said:

If it was only for players seeking more, i’m sure that would be written into the CBA alongside the RFA negotiation option. 

I didn’t say he WOULD take a lesser amount, just that it IS POSSIBLE for a player to agree to a lesser amount. $4 million is not locked in if he wants to work out another deal, upwards or downwards. 

No mental gymnastics there.

It's also possible for the Kardashians to decide they don't want to be attention whores anymore and get off social media, doesn't mean it will ever happen.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

It's also possible for the Kardashians to decide they don't want to be attention whores anymore and get off social media, doesn't mean it will ever happen.

But... but... but... he has the 'potential' 

[chaps80 1,591]

11 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yes. Yes you were lol

Read the post of mine you quoted to start this exchange. I said I was mistaken that he could accept then negotiate once I looked into it more. If he accepts the qualifier he’s getting the $4 million. If he refuses, he remains an RFA and both sides are free to negotiate.

We can move on now.

[chaps80 1,591]

On 2018-01-29 at 8:38 PM, krsmith17 said:

This isn't what you were saying before though... You previously said that he can sign the qualifying offer and then negotiate for less. That is what people were disputing. If he signs the qualifying offer, he would make a minimum of $4M per for x years. He would be stupid not to accept such a deal, assuming it would be short term. However, unfortunately it may be stupid for the Red Wings to offer such a deal, unless he plays lights out for the remainder of the season. Anyway, yes, Mrazek can and likely will become a UFA this summer, and then he can, like any UFA, negotiate a deal with any team. I hope he remains with the Wings, but he'll probably look for a fresh start elsewhere...

Once again, read the post with the bold part I took from the CBA. I stated I was wrong about him being able to accept then negotiate. It’s right there. Lol

And I don’t see the qualifying offer even being on the table at this point, nor do I see renegotiations for less. But, people always have to try to argue. It was a hypothetical situation.

Truth is, none of us know anything really. All we can do is speculate. Holland might want to qualify him for one year, especially if he ditches a chunk of cap before that. Or he might say screw it, take a hike.

[chaps80 1,591]

On 2018-01-29 at 8:40 PM, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Maybe technically you're right that he could reject the offer and take less, but there's no realistic situation where that's going to come into play. For one thing, If he did that the player's union would be pissed at him. Secondly, he probably doesn't hate money, so he's going to take it. 

The likely scenarios are us making that one year deal offer to keep him and give him a chance to earn a longer deal. Or he becomes a free agent and then he has great negotiating possibilities 

If he wants to sign for less in Detroit they'll discuss that and he'll sign after free agency starts. Why would they go your convoluted way? just so he can sign a few weeks earlier and have less negotiating power/ contract/team options?

Didn’t say they should go any way. Like you said, i’m technically correct on him being able to refuse and sign for less. I didn’t say it would happen. There are reasons why it COULD, but your right about the money thing, the union wouldn’t be happy about it. Even though i have heard of teams tabling offers of one year at qualifying amount OR two or three year contracts for lesser salary in each to RFAs, it’s quite rare.

[Prolix 65]

11 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Read the post of mine you quoted to start this exchange. I said I was mistaken that he could accept then negotiate once I looked into it more. If he accepts the qualifier he’s getting the $4 million. If he refuses, he remains an RFA and both sides are free to negotiate.

We can move on now.

The point of absurdity is that there is practically zero reason that Mrazek would reject a qualifying offer at his current salary (unless he really, really wants to get paid far less to play hockey somewhere else).

If he gets qualified, he's staying. If not, he tests free agency and we find out if the Wings still want him on a lower salary (and if he wants to stay).

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Qualifying offers[edit]

The current team must extend a "qualifying offer" to a restricted free agent to retain negotiating rights to that player. Qualifying offers are for one year contracts. The minimum salary for the qualifying offer depends on the player's prior year salary.

Players who earned less than $660,000 in the previous season must be offered 110 percent of last season's salary. Players making up to $1 million must be offered 105 percent. Players making over $1 million must be offered 100 percent.

• If the qualifying offer is not made, the player becomes an unrestricted free agent.
• If the player rejects a qualifying offer, he remains a restricted free agent.
• If the player does not sign before December 1, he is ineligible to play in the NHL for the remainder of the season.

 

The most he can be qualified for is his exact salary from this season and ONLY for 1 year. He CAN reject it and remain an RFA if he wants more money.  He COULD sign for less if he would rather have more term, meaning he gets more money.  Would you rather have a 1 year contract worth only $4M and then if you s*** the bed, you are screwed after said year, or would you rather sign a 4 year deal worth $12M? Even if you s*** the bed, you are still getting paid for the next three years, and paid handsomely.  So, yes he could do so, like in my example. $12M total with a job (somewhere) for the next 4 years, or $4M total and only a 1 year deal, maybe getting no more than $1M the next year on the UFA market. I'd take the guaranteed $12M.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

14 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Read the post of mine you quoted to start this exchange. I said I was mistaken that he could accept then negotiate once I looked into it more. If he accepts the qualifier he’s getting the $4 million. If he refuses, he remains an RFA and both sides are free to negotiate.

We can move on now.

Yes, after much head against wall, that's become very clear lol thanks. 

 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

20 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

The most he can be qualified for is his exact salary from this season and ONLY for 1 year. He CAN reject it and remain an RFA if he wants more money.  He COULD sign for less if he would rather have more term, meaning he gets more money.  Would you rather have a 1 year contract worth only $4M and then if you s*** the bed, you are screwed after said year, or would you rather sign a 4 year deal worth $12M? Even if you s*** the bed, you are still getting paid for the next three years, and paid handsomely.  So, yes he could do so, like in my example. $12M total with a job (somewhere) for the next 4 years, or $4M total and only a 1 year deal, maybe getting no more than $1M the next year on the UFA market. I'd take the guaranteed $12M.

I hope Holland does offer Mrazek a qualifying offer, but I'm not too sure he will. If that offer (1 year at $4M) is on the table, the question then is, does Mrazek want to stay in Detroit and continue to battle with Howard for the starters position? I don't think any team (including the Red Wings) are going to offer him a multi-year contract, so the qualifying offer may be best case scenario for Mrazek. No chance he turns it down, unless Holland tells him that he's not qualifying him, but if interested, he will offer 2.5-3M for 2 years, once he hits UFA. And again, unless Mrazek plays lights out (I do believe he's capable) down the stretch, no team is going to offer much, if at all, more than that.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

26 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I hope Holland does offer Mrazek a qualifying offer, but I'm not too sure he will. If that offer (1 year at $4M) is on the table, the question then is, does Mrazek want to stay in Detroit and continue to battle with Howard for the starters position? I don't think any team (including the Red Wings) are going to offer him a multi-year contract, so the qualifying offer may be best case scenario for Mrazek. No chance he turns it down, unless Holland tells him that he's not qualifying him, but if interested, he will offer 2.5-3M for 2 years, once he hits UFA. And again, unless Mrazek plays lights out (I do believe he's capable) down the stretch, no team is going to offer much, if at all, more than that.

With the parameters involved, I think it's very slim that Mrazek gets qualified. I think Mrazek will also want to explore UFA and try to move on from this team.

If UFA doesn't work out for Mrazek, I could see at that point negotiations reopening between he and Holland

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

With the parameters involved, I think it's very slim that Mrazek gets qualified. I think Mrazek will also want to explore UFA and try to move on from this team.

If UFA doesn't work out for Mrazek, I could see at that point negotiations reopening between he and Holland

Unfortunately, I agree. I still think it's too early to give up on Mrazek, but we'll see how it plays out...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

There is virtually zero chance Detroit gives him an offer for more than 2 years.  I don't think that they give him a QO either unless he plays lights out the rest of the season and has a good attitude off the ice.

The team and player can also work out a deal without the team offering the qualifying offer, the QO just allows the team to retain the p[layer's rights.  

[chaps80 1,591]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yes, after much head against wall, that's become very clear lol thanks. 

 

 

Well if you would have read the post of mine you quoted, you'd see that i said i knew i was mistaken before all of this. lol

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

There is virtually zero chance Detroit gives him an offer for more than 2 years.  I don't think that they give him a QO either unless he plays lights out the rest of the season and has a good attitude off the ice.

The team and player can also work out a deal without the team offering the qualifying offer, the QO just allows the team to retain the p[layer's rights.  

That's exactly what i was trying to explain. Seems like we were in some kind of alternate realm on the last page or so. it's not like "OMG he's owed 4 million bucks and won't get it so we trade him and at least get something or he walks." There's other possibilities.

[chaps80 1,591]

6 hours ago, Prolix said:

The point of absurdity is that there is practically zero reason that Mrazek would reject a qualifying offer at his current salary (unless he really, really wants to get paid far less to play hockey somewhere else).

If he gets qualified, he's staying. If not, he tests free agency and we find out if the Wings still want him on a lower salary (and if he wants to stay).

Again, hypothetical situation. Holland can say "Look, you haven't earned this money. What would you say if i offered you a two year deal at $2 million per year instead of the $4 million for one season? If you want it, it's a done deal."

"Or, I won't be tabling any offers at all. On July 1st you are free to explore other options." 

Even the Players Association couldn't really fault him for that. "You didn't take the qualifier that was never really on the table to play for less money because you hadn't earned it?? What the hell??"

"Uhhh, yeah. I like playing hockey and making some money."

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

38 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Well if you would have read the post of mine you quoted, you'd see that i said i knew i was mistaken before all of this. lol

That's exactly what i was trying to explain. Seems like we were in some kind of alternate realm on the last page or so. it's not like "OMG he's owed 4 million bucks and won't get it so we trade him and at least get something or he walks." There's other possibilities.

Hmmmm

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Mike Fisher coming out of retirement to rejoin Predators. Someone's trying to pull a Jiri Slegr.

[gcom007 1,465]

8 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

There is virtually zero chance Detroit gives him an offer for more than 2 years.  I don't think that they give him a QO either unless he plays lights out the rest of the season and has a good attitude off the ice.

The team and player can also work out a deal without the team offering the qualifying offer, the QO just allows the team to retain the p[layer's rights.  

From everything we’ve heard all season and the summer before, he has had a much improved attitude and has been working on the details of his game that have needed improving. Coaches have been saying that all year. Any goalie needs a chance to string some games together to really shake off the rust and get going, and he’s finally gotten that chance and so far, so good. You can’t bet big on it yet by a long shot, but if this keeps up, I think the Wings would be fools to not try to work something out. Probably more likely in free agency, but again, if this guy can get going and stay going, and I think it’s fair to say it’s still possible, we could have a solid piece of the puzzle in place for the next 5-6 years.

If he had a better team in front of him and had he not had an awkward situation with Howard still being around (a situation both said was uncomfortable, and I honestly think both are guilty of having not supported each other as well as they should), I’d be a lot less open minded about Mrazek. But realistically, these last couple years have been rough on everyone and it’s clear Mrazek had some maturing to do. If he has indeed matured and keeps this level of play up through the season, you find some way to get a short deal done. 1 year ideally, 2 years max if it’s screaming cheap.

Edited February 1, 2018 by gcom007

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, gcom007 said:

From everything we’ve heard all season and the summer before, he has had a much improved attitude and has been working on the details of his game that have needed improving. Coaches have been saying that all year. Any goalie needs a chance to string some games together to really shake off the rust and get going, and he’s finally gotten that chance and so far, so good. You can’t bet big on it yet by a long shot, but if this keeps up, I think the Wings would be fools to not try to work something out. Probably more likely in free agency, but again, if this guy can get going and stay going, and I think it’s fair to say it’s still possible, we could have a solid piece of the puzzle in place for the next 5-6 years.

If he had a better team in front of him and had he not had an awkward situation with Howard still being around (a situation both said was uncomfortable, and I honestly think both are guilty of having not supported each other as well as they should), I’d be a lot less open minded about Mrazek. But realistically, these last couple years have been rough on everyone and it’s clear Mrazek had some maturing to do. If he has indeed matured and keeps this level of play up through the season, you find some way to get a short deal done. 1 year ideally, 2 years max if it’s screaming cheap.

If Mrazek is kept around past the deadline and he keeps playing regularity at the level he has recently, they will either try to negotiate a longer deal or qualify him for one year if they have to. Either way, they won’t let him walk. That would indeed be foolish.

[amato 3,210]

7 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Mike Fisher coming out of retirement to rejoin Predators. Someone's trying to pull a Jiri Slegr.

 

“Mike Fisher is our trade deadline acquisition.” 

-David Poile doing his best Holland impression, probably  

[krsmith17 7,191]

Mrazek will be starting again tomorrow night. Has he actually stolen back the starters job (again) , or is this all just a ruse to up his trade value to trade him in the next few weeks?

I hope / think it may be the former. He's been playing great the past couple weeks. I think it would be a huge mistake to give up on him now, especially if all we're getting back is a mid round draft pick...