Rumors Thread

[krsmith17 7,191]

12 minutes ago, kickazz said:

He'll be an easy in for the LTIR. He's got a medical diagnosis that's official. I'm not surprised he played 82 games and 20 minutes every other night and didn't practice. The question is can he do the 2-3 hours of conditioning per day. That's a whole different beast. And that's probably why there's all the question marks. I think if he's able to do the summer training then he comes back and plays another 82 game season. The question is can he even do the training? If not then, he simply won't be ready to play adequately since he would be out of shape.  

Like I mentioned, he significantly changed his workout routine to accommodate his back issue. I don't see the offseason training to be an issue at all.

Also, medical diagnosis or not, playing 4 straight full seasons after surgery, and then saying he can no longer play, coincidentally when his salary is cut in half, after already saying that he (and the team) had no intention of him playing out that contract, will cause issues for sure. It's not even like he took a bad hit that further damaged his back. There's no way he goes on LTIR for the full season (and the rest of his career) without a thorough investigation.

I expect he'll play at least half of this season, and maybe miss some games toward the end, with back issues, to cement his case for the following season.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Like I mentioned, he significantly changed his workout routine to accommodate his back issue. I don't see the offseason training to be an issue at all.

Also, medical diagnosis or not, playing 4 straight full seasons after surgery, and then saying he can no longer play, coincidentally when his salary is cut in half, after already saying that he (and the team) had no intention of him playing out that contract, will cause issues for sure. It's not even like he took a bad hit that further damaged his back. There's no way he goes on LTIR for the full season (and the rest of his career) without a thorough investigation.

I expect he'll play at least half of this season, and maybe miss some games toward the end, with back issues, to cement his case for the following season.

Normally I would agree with you but it sounds like he's had some set backs in the 2017/18 season that was medically well documented and would be proved by the doctors. 

It probably sounds like it is out of the blue because it was all under wraps but, it's definitely  been going on back and forth for months it seems. 

Maybe the pain is just becoming unbearable during practice rigors and he only wants to deal with it for the games. Wouldn't be surprised if he took a cortisone shot before every few games or something. And if that's documented in his medical history then he's LTIR cleared for sure. 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Normally I would agree with you but it sounds like he's had some set backs in the 2017/18 season that was medically well documented and would be proved by the doctors. 

It probably sounds like it is out of the blue because it was all under wraps but, it's definitely been going on back and forth for months it seems. 

Source?

[kickazz 5,459]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Source?

Well I told you he wasn't practicing with the team before it became public knowledge didn't I. So trust me on that. But even besides that, read between the lines in Blashill's paragraph in the website. 

I'm sure "some" details will be out soon enough. 

[kickazz 5,459]

7 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

That's how I feel about all the retarded Athanasiou eyeball comments.

Wrekt

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

3 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

That's how I feel about all the retarded Athanasiou eyeball comments.

I dont athan a see what you mean 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

That's how I feel about all the retarded Athanasiou eyeball comments.

LOL. Not everything is quantifiable. There is absolutely a place for the "eyeball test". Y'know kinda how coaches evaluate players.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[kliq 3,755]

A

11 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Like I mentioned, he significantly changed his workout routine to accommodate his back issue. I don't see the offseason training to be an issue at all.

Also, medical diagnosis or not, playing 4 straight full seasons after surgery, and then saying he can no longer play, coincidentally when his salary is cut in half, after already saying that he (and the team) had no intention of him playing out that contract, will cause issues for sure. It's not even like he took a bad hit that further damaged his back. There's no way he goes on LTIR for the full season (and the rest of his career) without a thorough investigation.

I expect he'll play at least half of this season, and maybe miss some games toward the end, with back issues, to cement his case for the following season.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he get paid regardless? Its not a Datsyuk situation where he doesn't get the cash but the team still holds the cap hit.

I mention this because I dont think his salary changing makes this any more or less suspicious, unless you are saying from the teams perspective in that they dont care if he plays since they are only actually paying him so little. 

[amato 3,210]

6 hours ago, kliq said:

A

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he get paid regardless? Its not a Datsyuk situation where he doesn't get the cash but the team still holds the cap hit.

I mention this because I dont think his salary changing makes this any more or less suspicious, unless you are saying from the teams perspective in that they dont care if he plays since they are only actually paying him so little. 

Yeah, NHL contracts are fully guaranteed for injury. Some contracts of injured players are covered by insurance  rather than the team (unsure on those stipulations) but Z would get the money regardless, as long as he doesn’t officially retire. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 hours ago, kliq said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he get paid regardless? Its not a Datsyuk situation where he doesn't get the cash but the team still holds the cap hit.

I mention this because I dont think his salary changing makes this any more or less suspicious, unless you are saying from the teams perspective in that they dont care if he plays since they are only actually paying him so little. 

Yeah, Zetterberg would get paid regardless going on LTIR. I'm just thinking about how much motivation he'd have to come to the rink every day, knowing he's making pennies compared to what he's made throughout his career. He's made over $85M, so I doubt money is much of a factor anyway, but when it gets cut that low, it makes it even less desirable to play out the contract, especially when it was never designed for him to play it out. Add to that, the team isn't likely to win much over the next couple years, it's not like he has another Cup run to think about. He also has a young family that I'm sure he'd like to spend more time with, and maybe even grow.

I think Zetterberg plays one last season, and hangs them up toward the end of this season, or after the season.

[e_prime 1,936]

Cash money is not a factor to the team nor to Zetterberg at this point.  Z has made his money.  The Organization has paid him the largest chunk. Salary wise he's making $3.5 million this year and $1 million in 2019-20 and again in 2020-21.

What is of concern to me is $4 to $5 million dollars against our cap in recapture penalties for a couple years, if he does retire.  If he goes the LTIR retirement route -- Fine.  No problem.  If he retires retires. Officially hangs 'em up and calls it a day -- Damn.  That's gonna hurt cap-wise.

If you've forgotten about these penalties, which I always try to, but have spent so much time thinking about over the course of the years, here's a quick-ish recap: 

 https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/4/25/11487900/red-wings-cap-recapture-penalties-zetterberg-kronwall-and-franzens 

Say what you will about the other bulbous contracts coming off the books between now and 2021, and how if forces Holland to concentrate on signing our own talent rather than having a pool of cash to throw at vets to round out the team. ...and how it'll be great because the kids on their ELCs will have to play.  ...and how it'll be great because we won't be great and have great chances as great draft picks, etc

  ...but if we're also gonna continue talking about luring a great defenseman here to replace the falling apart Kronwall, and the terrible as terrible can be Mike Green and we've got $5 million in cap space tied up because Z is done... well, we can just stop right now.  

I want Z to do what's right for himself, his family, and his health.  I also want him to do right by this team and let a contract (which was mutually beneficial to both parties at the time of it's signing) run it's course.  So, either play and mentor as much as you can, O'Captain, My Captain.  ...or sit these next three years on the LTIR.

No disrespect.

Edited July 17, 2018 by e_prime

[kickazz 5,459]

17 minutes ago, e_prime said:

Cash money is not a factor to the team nor to Zetterberg at this point.  Z has made his money.  The Organization has paid him the largest chunk. Salary wise he's making $3.5 million this year and $1 million in 2019-20 and again in 2020-21.

What is of concern to me is $4 to $5 million dollars against our cap in recapture penalties for a couple years, if he does retire.  If he goes the LTIR retirement route -- Fine.  No problem.  If he retires retires. Officially hangs 'em up and calls it a day -- Damn.  That's gonna hurt cap-wise.

If you've forgotten about these penalties, which I always try to, but have spent so much time thinking about over the course of the years, here's a quick-ish recap: 

 https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/4/25/11487900/red-wings-cap-recapture-penalties-zetterberg-kronwall-and-franzens 

Say what you will about the other bulbous contracts coming off the books between now and 2021, and how if forces Holland to concentrate on signing our own talent rather than having a pool of cash to throw at vets to round out the team. ...and how it'll be great because the kids on their ELCs will have to play.  ...and how it'll be great because we won't be great and have great chances as great draft picks, etc

  ...but if we're also gonna continue talking about luring a great defenseman here to replace the falling apart Kronwall, and the terrible as terrible can be Mike Green and we've got $5 million in cap space tied up because Z is done... well, we can just stop right now.  

I want Z to do what's right for himself, his family, and his health.  I also want him to do right by this team and let a contract (which was mutually beneficial to both parties at the time of it's signing) run it's course.  So, either play and mentor as much as you can, O'Captain, My Captain.  ...or sit these next three years on the LTIR.

No disrespect.

He’ll going to be LTIR’d if he decides to stop playing. 

Deteriorating health causing him to miss practices for this year is more than enough of a reason and there will be medical documentation and imaging to prove his physician check ups in 2017/18.

If he was playing 82 games and not skipping practices then I would agree that his case for LTIR is shady. But if he has gotten to a point where he can't practice with the team and has supporting medical documentation (he will), then he's more LTIR eligible than Pronger, Hossa, etc combined. 

But the league won't even question it because the league won’t question a guy like Zetterberg that's basically given up his body for the game since the 2014 surgery. And if I remember correctly he specifically came back to play for the 2014 Winter Classic against the Maple Leafs even though he was injured. NHL made $$$ off that. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by kickazz

[e_prime 1,936]

53 minutes ago, kickazz said:

He’ll going to be LTIR’d if he decides to stop playing. 

Deteriorating health causing him to miss practices for this year is more than enough of a reason and there will be medical documentation and imaging to prove his physician check ups in 2017/18.

If he was playing 82 games and not skipping practices then I would agree that his case for LTIR is shady. But if he has gotten to a point where he can't practice with the team and has supporting medical documentation (he will), then he's more LTIR eligible than Pronger, Hossa, etc combined. 

But the league won't even question it because the league won’t question a guy like Zetterberg that's basically given up his body for the game since the 2014 surgery. And if I remember correctly he specifically came back to play for the 2014 Winter Classic against the Maple Leafs even though he was injured. NHL made $$$ off that. 

To this point I do not disagree.  I do believe he will do what is "right" for the team.  I do not believe that he would stick the team with the recapture penalties for spite because... "Z might not be happy playing for $3.5 million, or $1 million" ...or whatever bulls*** people are pulling outta nowhere. 

This is hockey.  This is Henrik Zetterberg.     

(Doesn't mean those cap-recapture penalties don't freak me the f*** out)

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

  He should be concerned about that.

I mean, he will be concerned if you don't like him.  I'm sure of it JM.

Edited July 17, 2018 by e_prime

[e_prime 1,936]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Will be nice when we clear all things Swedish off the current roster.  Making me wonder how much of our decline is due to their decline.

Yeah, I bet the Canucks are thankful for those Swedish Sedins are gone too, huh?  

[LeftWinger 4,953]

I believe he is done, but will start the season and get about 15 games in before the LTIR. Then comes Zadina.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

11 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

So why is it only ok for your eyeball tests to be accurate?

It's not MY eyeball test. If you're referring to AA, I have not stated anything that hasn't already been said by coaches, players, sports journalists, etc. Living out of the market, I don't get to watch as many games as a lot of you do, so I don't put a lot of emphasis on things that I specifically see. That's part of the reason for coming here, to get perspective from knowledgeable fans who see more than I do. That said, I trust comments and assessments made by Z and Blashill more than I do anyone at LGW. If those in the know are saying these things, then I 'll take their word over anyone here.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, e_prime said:

To this point I do not disagree.  I do believe he will do what is "right" for the team.  I do not believe that he would stick the team with the recapture penalties for spite because... "Z might not be happy playing for $3.5 million, or $1 million" ...or whatever bulls*** people are pulling outta nowhere. 

This is hockey.  This is Henrik Zetterberg.     

(Doesn't mean those cap-recapture penalties don't freak me the f*** out)

 Who's saying this?

I'm assuming you're referring to some other website or Twitter or something? I haven't seen anyone here say anything close to this...

[e_prime 1,936]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, Zetterberg would get paid regardless going on LTIR. I'm just thinking about how much motivation he'd have to come to the rink every day, knowing he's making pennies compared to what he's made throughout his career. He's made over $85M, so I doubt money is much of a factor anyway, but when it gets cut that low, it makes it even less desirable to play out the contract, especially when it was never designed for him to play it out. Add to that, the team isn't likely to win much over the next couple years, it's not like he has another Cup run to think about. He also has a young family that I'm sure he'd like to spend more time with, and maybe even grow.

I think Zetterberg plays one last season, and hangs them up toward the end of this season, or after the season.

YOU!  ...but I realize that I probably should have had another cup of coffee.  That isn't what you were saying at all.  My bad.

[krsmith17 7,191]

39 minutes ago, e_prime said:

YOU!  ...but I realize that I probably should have had another cup of coffee.  That isn't what you were saying at all.  My bad.

Yeah, not at all what I was saying. Zetterberg is the last person (player) I'd expect to be spiteful and stiff the team with the recapture penalty just because. I'm sure if he does decide to hang them up, it will be for good reason, and on a mutual understanding. It will also be via LTIR not official retirement until after the contract is up.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Will be nice when we clear all things Swedish off the current roster.  Making me wonder how much of our decline is due to their decline.

Right? I can't wait to rid this team of the useless Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen - Kronwall - Ericsson, so we can make room for Elfstrom - Holmstrom - Berggren - Malmstrom - Lindstrom...

[Dabura 12,207]

24 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Right? I can't wait to rid this team of the useless Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen - Kronwall - Ericsson, so we can make room for Elfstrom - Holmstrom - Berggren - Malmstrom - Lindstrom...

Zetterberg sucks. Elfstrom is the future.

[AtlantaHotWings 984]

47 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Right? I can't wait to rid this team of the useless Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen - Kronwall - Ericsson, so we can make room for Elfstrom - Holmstrom - Berggren - Malmstrom - Lindstrom...

Just hope in the group of new fresh Swedes there is someone that can grow an epic beard like Z...

Edited July 17, 2018 by AtlantaHotWings
forgot a word

[Dabura 12,207]

Word on the street is the current ask for Faulk is Nick Schmaltz + (Chicago's) 2019 1st.

Schmaltz is a perfect target for Carolina: a 22-year-old right-shooting centerman coming off a 51-point season. I'd say Larkin is a pretty good comparable.

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Word on the street is the current ask for Faulk is Nick Schmaltz + (Chicago's) 2019 1st.

Schmaltz is a perfect target for Carolina: a 22-year-old right-shooting centerman coming off a 51-point season. I'd say Larkin is a pretty good comparable.

Source? That is MASSIVE overpayment. No way the Hawks give up that package, and no way the Canes get anything close to that asking price...

Nyquist and 2019 2nd round pick (NYI). I doubt that is close either, but I wouldn't give up much more than that.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Well if that is the asking price, then its no wonder Holland isn't getting Faulk. That'd be Larkin and a 2019 1st, LOTTERY PICK!!?! They must be nuts.

How about Svech and a 2020 1st? I'd like to trade Nyquist, but I don't think anyone will want him until the TDL to be a depth scoring winger for a run at it all.