Rumors Thread

[e_prime 1,936]

56 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Funny how Larkin's holdout is ok.  Athanasiou holds out, he's the devil.

So, negotiating now considered holding out?

Sounds to me like someone needs to be held.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Funny how Larkin's holdout is ok.  Athanasiou holds out, he's the devil.

LOL. That's a good one.

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2018/07/red_wings_dylan_larkin_continu_1.html

https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2017/10/18/athanasiou-stunting-his-own-development-with-contract-holdout/

Edited July 21, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

29 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Media WORDS.  Israeli "freedom fighter" vs. Palestinian "terrorist".  Crazy how people don't see it.  Athanasiou was negotiating, as well.  His negotiation took longer.  Ken Holland's stupidity cost AA 11 games last year.  Hopefully Holland doesn't try and bend over Larkin too. 

You're probably right, Kenny should've just given AA whatever he demanded, that seems like smart GMing. I'm surprised this needs to be said, but Larkin =/= Athanasiou. One is talking about how he realizes a deal needs to be both beneficial for both himself and the team, the other tried using a KHL offer as leverage. I'll let you figure out why some folks were soured on one but not by the other. 

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Media WORDS.  Israeli "freedom fighter" vs. Palestinian "terrorist".  Crazy how people don't see it.  Athanasiou was negotiating, as well.  His negotiation took longer.  Ken Holland's stupidity cost AA 11 games last year.  Hopefully Holland doesn't try and bend over Larkin too. 

That’s two people now who have directly undermined Mabus since his post. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by kickazz

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Athanasiou never said a word.  His agent did that.  The same way Larkin's agent is probably using his Fair Market Value as leverage in that negotiation.

The difference is that AA was like one year into his NHL career, hadn't proven anything, was offered a fair deal and balked at it.

Larkin has been in the year for 3 years, has proven himself, and isn't asking for a ridiculous amount, nor is Holland coming in low. A deal hasn't been reached yet because they are working on a long term contract, greater money management and planning is required, cap hits, AAV, salary, term, bonuses, etc. Totally different situation here. They really aren't even comparable.

5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I sure was hoping for a more team friendly amount, I must be out of the times.

I happen to think that Mantha gave us a team friendly deal, it would be nice if we could get Dylan for around $5M. I know it's only $1M from the source, but that $1M can be helpful in giving him a better team to play for. If Larkin gets $6, you have to think that Z is LTIR almost for sure.

6 X 6 is a great deal IMO. Just think what guys of Larkin's caliber will be making in years 4-6 of that contract. He's a future 1C and likely team captain. 6 mil is beyond a bargain.

[joesuffP 1,746]

It was funny how AA had his KHL offer rescinded and then still went overseas to train with a team that had no desire to sign him. The whole ordeal made him look like an idiot

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Athanasiou never said a word.  His agent did that.  The same way Larkin's agent is probably using his Fair Market Value as leverage in that negotiation.

I don't think "the guy I choose to let represent me in the most important negotiations of my life said that, not me" is a valid excuse by any means. Athanasiou was down to wriggle out as much money from the team as possible, despite still being largely unproven at the time (still). It's clear though that you probably won't view him in a negative light, even if he kicked you in the head. It's fine, he's not a bad dude by any means and I still really like him as a player. Comparing him to Larkin is dumb though, at least thus far. 

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

3 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Couldn't agree more.  

Is he supposed to not get the most out of his negotiation?

You're not understanding something simple, I'm not going to try elaborating anymore. You can continue on wondering why some people are soured on AA but not Larkin despite the glaringly obvious reasons, It's fine. I'm not down on AA by any means so I don't want to be sucked into some weird conversation that may make it seem otherwise. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

You're not understanding something simple, I'm not going to try elaborating anymore. You can continue on wondering why some people are soured on AA but not Larkin despite the glaringly obvious reasons, It's fine. I'm not down on AA by any means so I don't want to be sucked into some weird conversation that may make it seem otherwise. 

It's popular this summer

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

22 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Funny how Larkin's holdout is ok.  Athanasiou holds out, he's the devil.

Dude Larkin isn't holding out, He's just not resigned yet. AA trained over in Switzerland last year that's a hold out. 

[kliq 3,755]

Everyone, stop taking the bait.

Edited July 22, 2018 by kliq

[kickazz 5,459]

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It's popular this summer

Oh it’s about to be popular all year.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

A good comparison for the Larkin contract is Ehlers in WPG. Although Dylan is a C and Ehlers is a LW, they had similar numbers last season and for their 3 year careers. Ehlers has him by 22 TTL points. Ehlers has had TWO season's of 60+ points, Dylan only one, plus last 2016-17 was dismal in comparison. But anyhow, Ehlers new contract takes affect this season and it's 7 years $42M, $6M AAV.  That is what most people are expecting Dylan to get, a $6M AAV. I would love to see him settle for a $5M AAV, for 6 years just to get that extra $1M in cap space. Anyhow, it'll probably end up 6yrs $36M and then we will be set, except for clearing cap by waiving Frk or Witko.

Edited July 22, 2018 by LeftWinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

A good comparison for the Larkin contract is Ehlers in WPG. Although Dylan is a C and Ehlers is a LW, they had similar numbers last season and for their 3 year careers. Ehlers has him by 22 TTL points. Ehlers has had TWO season's of 60+ points, Dylan only one, plus last 2016-17 was dismal in comparison. But anyhow, Ehlers new contract takes affect this season and it's 7 years $42M, $6M AAV.  That is what most people are expecting Dylan to get, a $6M AAV. I would love to see him settle for a $5M AAV, for 6 years just to get that extra $1M in cap space. Anyhow, it'll probably end up 6yrs $36M and then we will be set, except for clearing cap by waiving Frk or Witko.

You keep saying this, but it makes no sense to waive either of these players unless you expect a player like Glendening to sit every night (not going to happen). A veteran is not going to sit, so without Frk and Witkowski we'd have one of Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, Rasmussen or Zadina in the press box every night... 

[brett 1,029]

i dont think hes worth 6 mil a year 

but i guess if abs makes 4.25 a year larkin should get 6

i also think almost everyone is overpaid nowadays

would like a new face on defense. thanks

[LeftWinger 4,936]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

You keep saying this, but it makes no sense to waive either of these players unless you expect a player like Glendening to sit every night (not going to happen). A veteran is not going to sit, so without Frk and Witkowski we'd have one of Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, Rasmussen or Zadina in the press box every night... 

Without waiving one of them we'll be over the cap, even with Franzen LTIR.

Plus, we'll be so close to the cap after waiving one, we'll still have no cap space for Zadina. Not unless or until Z is done.

So once again we'll be the highest paid team in the NHL and still be a bottom 10 team. Too much money for the UFA's we signed they sucked up all the cap.

[krsmith17 7,191]

36 minutes ago, brett said:

i dont think hes worth 6 mil a year 

but i guess if abs makes 4.25 a year larkin should get 6

i also think almost everyone is overpaid nowadays

would like a new face on defense. thanks

Larkin is well worth $6M now and definitely will be 2+ years from now. Yes, athletes in general are overpaid, but it's market value.

26 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Without waiving one of them we'll be over the cap, even with Franzen LTIR.

Plus, we'll be so close to the cap after waiving one, we'll still have no cap space for Zadina. Not unless or until Z is done.

So once again we'll be the highest paid team in the NHL and still be a bottom 10 team. Too much money for the UFA's we signed they sucked up all the cap.

You're still not addressing the point though. If you waive Frk or Witkowski, who sits? Keep in mind it won't be any of the veterans that you'd like to sit. It would be one of the younger players. If we're over the cap, a trade will need to happen.

It sucks to be cap strapped while rebuilding, but it shouldn't be an issue beyond this season. A lot of big contracts will come off the books over the next two seasons. Until then, I'm sure Holland will figure it out. I don't expect Zadina to make the team out of camp (unless there is a trade), but he'll be up sooner than later I think.

[e_prime 1,936]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Without waiving one of them we'll be over the cap, even with Franzen LTIR.

Plus, we'll be so close to the cap after waiving one, we'll still have no cap space for Zadina. Not unless or until Z is done.

So once again we'll be the highest paid team in the NHL and still be a bottom 10 team. Too much money for the UFA's we signed they sucked up all the cap.

"Highest paid team in the NHL..."  Who cares?  Does the Ilitch fam owe you money that they haven't paid back or something? 

"...and still a bottom 10 team."  Isn't this what you want?  You keep talking about our first round Lottery Pick... don't you want it to be a high pick in a deep draft?

"Too much money for the UFA's we signed and they sucked up all the cap"  Nothing a trade couldn't help relieve.  Doesn't even have to be a big trade.

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by e_prime

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Especially 2 or 3 KRS trades.

Trouba for Hronek and a 2nd.

Faulk for Nielsen and a 4th.

Karlsson for DeKeyser and a 3rd.

OF COURSE, those teams PROBABLY wouldn't do it, but that's where we should start.

Ol s*** for brains is at it again... The sad thing is, you think you're hilarious, but everyone is laughing at you, not with you. You're a joke. You try to make it seem like I come up with all these unrealistic trade scenarios, but in reality that's you. Mantha and a 1st for Faulk is an actual trade you suggested. None of the "KRS trades" you keep talking about I've ever suggested. Not even close.

I'd love to trade for Trouba, but understand without giving up any of Larkin, Mantha or Zadina, it's a pipe dream, and I'm fine with that. I don't want to trade for Faulk or Karlsson and have said as much several times. 

[e_prime 1,936]

  I can't even. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Ok, this will bring us together.

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2018/07/rumor-blockbuster-for-ages.html?m=1

I've spent about 10 minutes trying to think of any way this deal would help us.  And there is no way.  Losing our 2 fastest and younger players would cripple this team beyond what Kenny has already done.  I will stop watching games if this deal happens.

It wouldn't happen.

If that trade would make you stop watching games, what would make you stop posting trolling here?

[amato 3,210]

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

If that trade would make you stop watching games, what would make you stop posting trolling here?

Three cups across the next two years? 

@Jonas Mahonas?  

21 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Ok, this will bring us together.

 

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2018/07/rumor-blockbuster-for-ages.html?m=1

 

I've spent about 10 minutes trying to think of any way this deal would help us.  And there is no way.  Losing our 2 fastest and younger players would cripple this team beyond what Kenny has already done.  I will stop watching games if this deal happens.

Gotta love “rumors” with absolutely no source. Peak off season stuff right there  yeah this deal makes zero sense for sure.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

On 7/22/2018 at 7:28 PM, krsmith17 said:

Larkin is well worth $6M now and definitely will be 2+ years from now. Yes, athletes in general are overpaid, but it's market value.

You're still not addressing the point though. If you waive Frk or Witkowski, who sits? Keep in mind it won't be any of the veterans that you'd like to sit. It would be one of the younger players. If we're over the cap, a trade will need to happen.

It sucks to be cap strapped while rebuilding, but it shouldn't be an issue beyond this season. A lot of big contracts will come off the books over the next two seasons. Until then, I'm sure Holland will figure it out. I don't expect Zadina to make the team out of camp (unless there is a trade), but he'll be up sooner than later I think.

But we all know a trade is not going to happen. Here is our situation after giving $6M to Larkin, having Rasmussen on the team and having Frk as the 13th FWD and Witko as the 7th D, BEFORE counting Franzen's LTIR of $3.9M.

 

...so if you do not waive ONE of Frk or Witko, what are we going to do? Even With Franzen we are still over the Cap. Here is what happens when I try to assign Franzen LTIR:

 

We all agree that if they do give Larkin $6M a trade will HAVE to be made, but we know better than that, it won't. Not until the TDL. So either we waive Frk or Witko or Holland knows that Z won't be playing. But if Z is playing, Holland will waive someone. If he keeps Rasmussen in jrs. then he lied to us the entire off season about 2-5 "new kids" (not the ones on the block ) being here. That is why I say they wasted too much money on Green, Vanek and Bernier. They soaked up $11.375M of our available cap. Not that we can't use them on the roster, it's just too much money wasted. At the very least Rasmussen and Zadina should be here or maybe another young D instead of Zadina. But as it looks right now, if Larkin gets $6M, not even Rasmussen will be here, so our "new kids" are Vanek and Bernier plus a re-signed Green. Mantha and AA did us a favor by signing the contracts they signed. Vanek, Bernier and Green (and hopefully Larkin) should've done the same.

Our only saving grace, so we don't have to waive anyone, is if the Team and Larkin agree on a $5M-$5.5M contract. We'll still be the top paid team in regards to cap hit, but at least we'd be compliant. But we'd only have 1 "new kid" here instead of 2-5 and right now, IMO, we won't even have him.

So if we cannot waive Frk or Witko (in your opinion) Here's your team come October, with $0 available cap:

(lines not set up, just roster)

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by LeftWinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

But we all know a trade is not going to happen.

No we don't. I really do believe that Rasmussen is a lock to make the team out of camp, unless he gets injured or has an awful camp / pre-season. And if every single player is healthy coming out of camp (very doubtful), Holland will be forced to make a trade. I think you can count on at least one player being injured prior to the start of the season though, not saying this is the right way to look at it, but it's why Holland isn't in any rush to make a trade... yet. Things will work themselves out, they always do. And the same goes for Zadina. He may not make the opening night roster (he still might), but you can be guaranteed he will get a look at some point this season (assuming he's producing in GR).

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

8 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Ok, this will bring us together.

 

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2018/07/rumor-blockbuster-for-ages.html?m=1

 

I've spent about 10 minutes trying to think of any way this deal would help us.  And there is no way.  Losing our 2 fastest and younger players would cripple this team beyond what Kenny has already done.  I will stop watching games if this deal happens.

1. This trade would never happen, and if it did, I would be the first person to demand Holland be fired.

2. I like the part about how there has been no secrets as to how the team feels about AA's play in his own end. At least I am not the only one who thinks this.

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

If that trade would make you stop watching games, what would make you stop posting trolling here?

I mean if you keep catching fish in the same pond, wouldn't you keep fishing there?