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13 hours ago, Dabura said:

Honestly, if I'm Treliving, I'm going for it this season. The Flames are having a special season that feels an awful lot like lightning in a bottle.

Cover all the bases. Cash in futures.

Get goalie insurance. (coughHowardcough)

Get a scoring winger. (coughNyquistcough)

Get a veteran specialist or two. (coughGlendeningcough)

This.

Now - is it me, or do the Flames have 1 impressive season outta 6 seasons (the other 5 are missing the playoffs).

Wouldn't be surprised to see the Flames finishing 10th, or worse next season in the WC.

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We have old man Trevor Daley that you can have... Don't let the jet black hair fool you Burkie, he uses Just For Men...

To CGY - Howard, Daley

To DET - Smith,  2019 1st round pick

Completely unrelated... Flames sit 1st place in the West, 2nd in the league... "Four defensemen aged 22 or younger"... So you're saying you can be good with a young team?...

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24 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So do the Red Wings... I would say Cholowski and Hronek > Kylington and Andersson. But more importantly, Cholowski and Hronek >> Ericsson and Daley...

The Flames have a better group of players tho. Backlund, Brodie, Gaudreau, Giordano, Hamonic, Hanifin, Lindholm, Monahan, Tkachuk...there's a lot of talent on that team.

Edited by Dabura

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4 minutes ago, Dabura said:

The Flames have a better group of players tho. Backlund, Brodie, Gaudreau, Giordano, Hamonic, Hanifin, Lindholm, Monahan, Tkachuk...there's a lot of talent on that team.

I'm not sure what that has to do with willingness to play talented kids over washed up vets... If anything, shouldn't the s***ty rebuilding team be more willing to play the kids over the talented playoff team? We constantly hear the same old bulls*** from management, how the days of overripening is over, we need to play the kids. They've had to at times, only because of injuries, but the moment all the vets are healthy, a kid is scratched / demoted to GR.

Just to be clear, I'm okay with Cholowski and / or Hronek playing in Grand Rapids. I even said that I'd like to see them go on a Calder Cup run. I just think it's kind of silly the amount of bending over backwards this team / media / some fans are trying to do to justify playing bad veteran players over kids that occasionally make bad plays...

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Just now, krsmith17 said:

I'm not sure what that has to do with willingness to play talented kids over washed up vets... If anything, shouldn't the s***ty rebuilding team be more willing to play the kids over the talented playoff team? We constantly hear the same old bulls*** from management, how the days of overripening is over, we need to play the kids. They've had to at times, only because of injuries, but the moment all the vets are healthy, a kid is scratched / demoted to GR.

Just to be clear, I'm okay with Cholowski and / or Hronek playing in Grand Rapids. I even said that I'd like to see them go on a Calder Cup run. I just think it's kind of silly the amount of bending over backwards this team / media / some fans are trying to do to justify playing bad veteran players over kids that occasionally make bad plays...

It frustrates me that our blue line continues to be old and slow and outdated, but I don't think we should look at the Flames dressing Hanifin and other good young defensemen and say, "Hey! The Flames are dressing young defensemen and they're winning lots of games! The Wings need to get with the times!"

We have a Hronek and a Cholowski. The Flames have a Hronek and a Cholowski and a Hanifin and a Giordano and a Brodie. And a Gaudreau. Et al. The Flames are looking to win a Cup. The Wings? Still rebuilding. The Flames are going for it. The Wings are bringing along their top prospects slowly and carefully, because there's no rush, because we're nowhere close to winning a Cup.

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6 minutes ago, Dabura said:

It frustrates me that our blue line continues to be old and slow and outdated, but I don't think we should look at the Flames dressing Hanifin and other good young defensemen and say, "Hey! The Flames are dressing young defensemen and they're winning lots of games! The Wings need to get with the times!"

We have a Hronek and a Cholowski. The Flames have a Hronek and a Cholowski and a Hanifin and a Giordano and a Brodie. And a Gaudreau. Et al. The Flames are looking to win a Cup. The Wings? Still rebuilding. The Flames are going for it. The Wings are bringing along their top prospects slowly and carefully, because there's no rush, because we're nowhere close to winning a Cup.

I'm not looking at Hanifin, and saying we need to dress Cholowski and Hronek. I'm looking at every team in the league (including Calgary) that are dressing young players as talented, or in some cases less talented than Cholowski and Hronek, and wondering why we have by far the oldest blue line in the league in a "rebuild".

The bold is the exact reason we should be bringing in some younger players and the Flames and other contending teams are looking to bring in some older players (veteran leadership) for a playoff run.

7 minutes ago, Dabura said:

And it's not like Cholowski hasn't been given a shot. Made the team out of camp, had a good start, fell off a cliff. Now he gets to help the Griffins while we sell and tank.

Cholowski was given a shot / stayed with the team as long as he did, because 1. veterans were injured, and 2. he didn't really give them much of a choice early on, with all that Calder Trophy talk...

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6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Cholowski was given a shot / stayed with the team as long as he did, because 1. veterans were injured, and 2. he didn't really give them much of a choice early on, with all that Calder Trophy talk...

But ultimately he was exposed as being not quite ready for primetime, no? He's spent most of the season struggling (defensive liability, stopped putting up points, wasn't driving possession), so, if anything, he sort of validates the slow-and-steady development philosophy...no?

I don't disagree that the Wings need to get younger, but I'm not seeing a bunch of NHL-ready defensemen banging on the door. Hicketts is probably a career AHLer. Sulak...skates well? Saarijarvi isn't doing much. Hronek's been going back and forth between Detroit and Grand Rapids and that's probably what's best for him.

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Your top pair D play the most. This team currently does not have any legitimate top pair D. Cholowski or Hronek may get there, but not yet.

Someone has to take those tough assignments each game. I would rather it be a vet than a kid. You dont put your young D out there to get destroyed every night. It could slow, or even ruin their development.

I would rather make Daley, E, Kronwall, DD play in positions above there skill sets. I would rather see them get torched than a Cholowski or a Hronek. Thats why they get more ice time. They have to play those tough minutes, and it should be them over the kids in those situations until the kids are ready.

I don't know why people don't get that.

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44 minutes ago, Dabura said:

But ultimately he was exposed as being not quite ready for primetime, no? He's spent most of the season struggling (defensive liability, stopped putting up points, wasn't driving possession), so, if anything, he sort of validates the slow-and-steady development philosophy...no?

I don't disagree that the Wings need to get younger, but I'm not seeing a bunch of NHL-ready defensemen banging on the door. Hicketts is probably a career AHLer. Sulak...skates well? Saarijarvi isn't doing much. Hronek's been going back and forth between Detroit and Grand Rapids and that's probably what's best for him.

No doubt he hit a wall. I don't think anyone realistically thought he would keep up the pace he was on at the beginning of the season. He's definitely had a few bad moments / games, but I still don't think it compares to those same bad moments / games as some of the vets. I just wish the coach (this organization) would play their best players, based solely on performance, not age, name, contract, salary, etc. Veterans need to be held accountable for their s***ty play too. I'm okay with Cholowski and Hronek playing in GR, but if there aren't any moves made at the trade deadline / offseason to get BOTH of them in the lineup full time, fans will (rightfully so) be pissed...

I'm not seeing a "bunch" of NHL ready defensemen banging on the door either. But I do think Cholwoski and Hronek are two that are NHL ready. I disagree that sending a player up and down between the NHL and AHL is the best for his development though. Hronek has been lights out in Grand Rapids, and very good in Detroit. No, he hasn't been perfect, but neither has any other defenseman on the team. He's had more of a positive impact than negative impact though in my opinion.

51 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Your top pair D play the most. This team currently does not have any legitimate top pair D. Cholowski or Hronek may get there, but not yet.

Someone has to take those tough assignments each game. I would rather it be a vet than a kid. You dont put your young D out there to get destroyed every night. It could slow, or even ruin their development.

I would rather make Daley, E, Kronwall, DD play in positions above there skill sets. I would rather see them get torched than a Cholowski or a Hronek. Thats why they get more ice time. They have to play those tough minutes, and it should be them over the kids in those situations until the kids are ready.

I don't know why people don't get that.

Literally no one is suggesting we give either of Cholowski or Hronek top line minutes or the tough assignments (although I do think they could probably handle it). They're both more than capable of playing 3rd line minutes along with power-play time, while the rest of the defense continue to do their thing...

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4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

No doubt he hit a wall. I don't think anyone realistically thought he would keep up the pace he was on at the beginning of the season. He's definitely had a few bad moments / games, but I still don't think it compares to those same bad moments / games as some of the vets. I just wish the coach (this organization) would play their best players, based solely on performance, not age, name, contract, salary, etc. Veterans need to be held accountable for their s***ty play too. I'm okay with Cholowski and Hronek playing in GR, but if there aren't any moves made at the trade deadline / offseason to get BOTH of them in the lineup full time, fans will (rightfully so) be pissed...

I'm not seeing a "bunch" of NHL ready defensemen banging on the door either. But I do think Cholwoski and Hronek are two that are NHL ready. I disagree that sending a player up and down between the NHL and AHL is the best for his development though. Hronek has been lights out in Grand Rapids, and very good in Detroit. No, he hasn't been perfect, but neither has any other defenseman on the team. He's had more of a positive impact than negative impact though in my opinion.

I hear ya. I guess I just don't see anything really unique in the way our players -- old and young -- are being managed. Fans of every single team complain about how their coaches and GMs don't hold veteran players accountable and don't give young players a fair shake. It's actually one of the reasons I stopped reading stuff like SB Nation -- it's all the same talking points, all the same complaints, all the same stuff.

One thing that does separate the Wings from most organizations, I feel, is that we really don't have much in the pipeline. Or, at least, we don't have many prospects that are making extremely strong cases for full-time promotions. Hronek seems ready, but we didn't necessary know that at the beginning of the season. He's spent some time with the Wings and he's taken what he's learned from those stints and worked on increasingly specific things (e.g. PKing) in his stints with the Griffins. It's a pretty good situation for him, IMO.

I think one thing we really have to consider is the idea that being a rookie defenseman on a bad NHL team can easily become a negative, demoralizing experience. We know Hronek is extremely hard on himself (every coach he's played for has said so). Cholowski seems incredibly chill about everything, but I'm willing to bet he was starting to feel uncomfortable with the fact that he wasn't really helping the team all that much and was costing them goals against all over the place.

I'd like to see less of Vanek on the power play. I'd like to see less of Kronwall on the power play. I'd like to see a defense group that isn't running Windows 98. Overall tho? I'm good with where we're at and how players are being managed. But that's just me.

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13 hours ago, Dabura said:

I hear ya. I guess I just don't see anything really unique in the way our players -- old and young -- are being managed. Fans of every single team complain about how their coaches and GMs don't hold veteran players accountable and don't give young players a fair shake. It's actually one of the reasons I stopped reading stuff like SB Nation -- it's all the same talking points, all the same complaints, all the same stuff.

One thing that does separate the Wings from most organizations, I feel, is that we really don't have much in the pipeline. Or, at least, we don't have many prospects that are making extremely strong cases for full-time promotions. Hronek seems ready, but we didn't necessary know that at the beginning of the season. He's spent some time with the Wings and he's taken what he's learned from those stints and worked on increasingly specific things (e.g. PKing) in his stints with the Griffins. It's a pretty good situation for him, IMO.

I think one thing we really have to consider is the idea that being a rookie defenseman on a bad NHL team can easily become a negative, demoralizing experience. We know Hronek is extremely hard on himself (every coach he's played for has said so). Cholowski seems incredibly chill about everything, but I'm willing to bet he was starting to feel uncomfortable with the fact that he wasn't really helping the team all that much and was costing them goals against all over the place.

I'd like to see less of Vanek on the power play. I'd like to see less of Kronwall on the power play. I'd like to see a defense group that isn't running Windows 98. Overall tho? I'm good with where we're at and how players are being managed. But that's just me.

I disagree that we don't have much in the pipeline. We've consistently been ranked in the top 10 prospect pools in the league. Obviously not all of those players are NHL-ready right now, but they will be in the very near future.

Like I've been saying, I'm okay holding players back for the remainder of this season, but this organization better be making room for some of these young players to make the team next season. We've seen some youth slowly injected over the past several years, but we should be seeing a real shift in the next year or so. All of Nyquist, Vanek, Kronwall, and one of Ericsson or Daley should be gone next season. All of Zadina, Veleno, Hronek, Cholowski and our 2019 first round pick should be given every opportunity to take those spots. Svechnikov should be given every opportunity to make the roster over Ehn or de la Rose as well.

The way this organization has been run, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see any or even all four of the aforementioned back next season. That is the biggest reason I want to see Yzerman take over. I think he would want to make some changes right away. He's shown that he's willing to have young kids on the roster. Kucherov, Point, Cirelli and Vasilevskiy were all full time NHLers at the age of 20. Palat was 21 and Sergachev was 19. Yzerman is also willing to buy-out players if they're not living up to their contract. He used a compliance buy-out on Lecavalier, 7 years, $45M (no cap retention) and a regular buy-out on Carle, 2 years, $11M. I'm sure he'd have no problem buying out Ericsson or Daley with 1 year, $3-4M left on their contracts.

Again, I guess this is mostly frustration that we're one of the worst teams in the NHL, one of the oldest teams in the NHL, the highest paid team in the NHL, and rebuilding... That to me is not a recipe for success. We need to shed some of the overpaid vets and inject some youth if we want to make this a successful rebuild. Just my opinion...

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You all noticed yesterday that a vet was sat in favor of a rookie...

From here....https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2019/02/red-wings-anthony-mantha-answered-bell-in-fight-excelled-in-loss.html important points bolded well at least in my opinion. 

"Ericsson scratched

Jonathan Ericsson was a healthy scratch to make room for Filip Hronek, up for his third stint with the Red Wings. Hronek logged 14:18 (no points, one shot, minus-1) and apparently will remain in the lineup

“I thought he was good tonight,” Blashill said. “I like Fil. We sent Fil down earlier in the year, he didn’t have a great camp, needed to get better at things. I think he’s gotten better. We sent him down again, my message to him was be the best player on the ice in the American League, stand out, look like you should be in the NHL, and I think he did that to a large degree after he stopped yelling at refs.

“He’s strong, he seals, he creates stalls in the D-zone, he can create offense.”

Blashill wasn’t happy with his defense in Saturday’s game and explained why Ericsson was the odd-man out.

“He was, for me, the worst of the six (defensemen) last night,” Blashill said. “He struggled. I think he knew that.""

Hello buyout ...lol 

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37 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Ericsson scratched

...

Blashill wasn’t happy with his defense in Saturday’s game and explained why Ericsson was the odd-man out.

“He was, for me, the worst of the six (defensemen) last night,” Blashill said. “He struggled. I think he knew that.""

Hello buyout ...lol 

As much as I'd like to see this happen, I just don't see it with Holland still managing this team.

I'd like to see one of Ericsson or Daley bought out this summer. It doesn't matter which one to me. I think they've both been equally as bad...

If we buy out Ericsson, we'd carry a $1,416,667 cap hit for each of the next two seasons.

If we buy out Daley, we'd carry a $1,699,999 cap hit next season, and $733,333 the following season.

Both scenarios would be beneficial next season, and hardly crippling the following season.

Holland wouldn't do it. I think Yzerman might though...

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4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I disagree that we don't have much in the pipeline. We've consistently been ranked in the top 10 prospect pools in the league. Obviously not all of those players are NHL-ready right now, but they will be in the very near future.

Like I've been saying, I'm okay holding players back for the remainder of this season, but this organization better be making room for some of these young players to make the team next season. We've seen some youth slowly injected over the past several years, but we should be seeing a real shift in the next year or so. All of Nyquist, Vanek, Kronwall, and one of Ericsson or Daley should be gone next season. All of Zadina, Veleno, Hronek, Cholowski and our 2019 first round pick should be given every opportunity to take those spots. Svechnikov should be given every opportunity to make the roster over Ehn or de la Rose as well.

The way this organization has been run, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see any or even all four of the aforementioned back next season. That is the biggest reason I want to see Yzerman take over. I think he would want to make some changes right away. He's shown that he's willing to have young kids on the roster. Kucherov, Point, Cirelli and Vasilevskiy were all full time NHLers at the age of 20. Palat was 21 and Sergachev was 19. Yzerman is also willing to buy-out players if they're not living up to their contract. He used a compliance buy-out on Lecavalier, 7 years, $45M (no cap retention) and a regular buy-out on Carle, 2 years, $11M. I'm sure he'd have no problem buying out Ericsson or Daley with 1 year, $3-4M left on their contracts.

Again, I guess this is mostly frustration that we're one of the worst teams in the NHL, one of the oldest teams in the NHL, the highest paid team in the NHL, and rebuilding... That to me is not a recipe for success. We need to shed some of the overpaid vets and inject some youth if we want to make this a successful rebuild. Just my opinion...

When I say we don't have much in the pipeline, I'm talking about players that are undeniably ready to hold down full-time roster spots and help us win games. Ultimately, many of the prospects we've gotten excited about in recent years haven't panned out. Now that we're rebuilding, we're getting better young players than we're used to having (we are maybe-kinda-sorta *beginning* to find our Kucherovs and our Points and our Sergachevs and our Vasilevskiys), and I'd say they've all been managed more-or-less correctly thus far. Our forward group -- and the team itself -- is now driven largely by young players. Our defense group remains old, but we all know it's going to get younger over the next several years. Hronek and Cholowski are the tip of the youth movement spear on the back end. McIsaac and Lindstrom could be the next wave. I don't know if any of our other D prospects will make it as NHLers. Maybe we sign Trouba next summer. Maybe we get Byram or Broberg in the draft (though, neither one is clearly NHL-ready).

All of this is why I suspect we're going to need a couple more strong drafts before we can start thinking about legitimately contending. It's also why I think we shouldn't be too mad at the brass for continuing to favor veterans when maybe we as fans would prefer to see them lean more on youth. We're rebuilding and our team is what a rebuilding team should look like: getting younger, but still heavily veteran, because the young talent isn't quite there yet. The youth is slowly taking over, but we're not yet at the point where there's a clear, pressing need to free up lots of spots for kids. Zadina isn't quite ready right now and he probably won't be quite ready at the start of next season. Veleno's probably gonna need a year on the farm. Rasmussen should've spent this season on the farm, so it wouldn't necessarily be wrong to start him there next season. Hronek and Cholowski should both make the team out of camp, but even if they're not both on that opening night roster, it's really not a big deal. There will be injuries.

Basically, I think Yzerman looks at our organizational depth chart and says, "I'd love for this team to get younger in a hurry, but I don't feel the talent level and NHL-readiness is high enough to force immediate and significant roster turnover. That will come with time. This is a waiting game and I'm content to wait." I honestly believe that would be his attitude and I honestly believe he's in no hurry to take over as GM for that very reason. "Great, so we got Dach/Cozens/Zegras. It's going to be at least one year before he's a full-time NHLer and it's going to be at least two years before he's a legitimate NHL centerman and it's going to be at least three years before he's pushing Larkin for prime minutes and teams are gameplanning around him. I don't know what you want me to say, Chris. This team isn't ready for takeoff yet and there really isn't much that can be done to accelerate the process."

3 hours ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

You all noticed yesterday that a vet was sat in favor of a rookie...

From here....https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2019/02/red-wings-anthony-mantha-answered-bell-in-fight-excelled-in-loss.html important points bolded well at least in my opinion. 

"Ericsson scratched

Jonathan Ericsson was a healthy scratch to make room for Filip Hronek, up for his third stint with the Red Wings. Hronek logged 14:18 (no points, one shot, minus-1) and apparently will remain in the lineup

“I thought he was good tonight,” Blashill said. “I like Fil. We sent Fil down earlier in the year, he didn’t have a great camp, needed to get better at things. I think he’s gotten better. We sent him down again, my message to him was be the best player on the ice in the American League, stand out, look like you should be in the NHL, and I think he did that to a large degree after he stopped yelling at refs.

“He’s strong, he seals, he creates stalls in the D-zone, he can create offense.”

Blashill wasn’t happy with his defense in Saturday’s game and explained why Ericsson was the odd-man out.

“He was, for me, the worst of the six (defensemen) last night,” Blashill said. “He struggled. I think he knew that.""

Hello buyout ...lol 

Well, there you go.

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According to Khan, Red Wings considering sending Rasmussen back to the W (Tri-City), which would make him eligible for AHL playoffs with the Griffins.

Edit: I would assume he would have to remain in junior until they are eliminated from the playoffs. Tri-City are currently in a Wild Card spot.

Edited by krsmith17

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