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Hockey Fights 2017/18

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Not a fight, but Landeskog suspended 4 games for crosscheck to Matthew Tkachuk.

https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/avs-gabriel-landeskog-suspended-four-games-for-cross-checking-matthew-tkachuk/

So that's 14 games worth of suspensions Tkachuk's punked guys into in less than as many days. The kid is really becoming a d-bag. It's a shame that he has to resort to those kinds of tactics to be an NHL player because his name and skills aren't enough.

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1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Not a fight, but Landeskog suspended 4 games for crosscheck to Matthew Tkachuk.

https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/avs-gabriel-landeskog-suspended-four-games-for-cross-checking-matthew-tkachuk/

So that's 14 games worth of suspensions Tkachuk's punked guys into in less than as many days. The kid is really becoming a d-bag. It's a shame that he has to resort to those kinds of tactics to be an NHL player because his name and skills aren't enough.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think he has to resort to that style of play to be effective. It just comes natural to him, being the son of Keith. Like his father, Matt (and Brady) have a ton of skill, but can play that abrasive, in your face style of hockey. They can also back it up. These are the types of players that opponents and opposing fans hate, while teammates and local fans love. I'd say the only shame is that we weren't able to draft him. I think he'll be around a point per game player, that can do it all. I'm excited for Givani Smith, but unfortunately he doesn't have half the skill as Tkatchuk.

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think he has to resort to that style of play to be effective. It just comes natural to him, being the son of Keith. Like his father, Matt (and Brady) have a ton of skill, but can play that abrasive, in your face style of hockey. They can also back it up. These are the types of players that opponents and opposing fans hate, while teammates and local fans love. I'd say the only shame is that we weren't able to draft him. I think he'll be around a point per game player, that can do it all. I'm excited for Givani Smith, but unfortunately he doesn't have half the skill as Tkatchuk.

Secretly, I know you're right. I just can't like someone like that. I personally don't think he's anything like Keith tho. I actually liked his dad, respected him as a player. Tons of skill, tough, aggressive, but not dirty. Wanted him wearing the Winged Wheel. I can't say that about Matt. He's a punk IMO.

Besides, the Wings have a Turgeon and a Bertuzzi. We win.

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12 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Secretly, I know you're right. I just can't like someone like that. I personally don't think he's anything like Keith tho. I actually liked his dad, respected him as a player. Tons of skill, tough, aggressive, but not dirty. Wanted him wearing the Winged Wheel. I can't say that about Matt. He's a punk IMO.

Besides, the Wings have a Turgeon and a Bertuzzi. We win.

Keith definitely played with an edge. I'm not sure how many times he was suspended in his career, but I'd think he would have been several times in today's game. I wouldn't say he was a cheap shot artist, but he definitely got his jabs in when he could. Like I said though, he could back it up. I'm okay with players like that, as long as they don't cross the line. Matt may be towing that line now...

56 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I honestly disliked the old man Keith.

He held out a few times while in Winnipeg (was under contract, but wanted to re-negotiate to make more $$$).

He also was branded a 'power forward', but from what I recall - he never had any significant fights to grant him the title.

Keith had 18 fights in his career. He never would have been confused for an enforcer, but I think he was definitely considered a power-forward in his day. Your definition may be different from mine, but I don't think you need to be a heavy fighter to be a power-forward. To me, Ryan Getzlaf and Jamie Benn have been two of the better power-forwards in the game the past decade, and neither have ever been big time fighters, but can definitely hold their own. Blake Wheeler and Rick Nash are also pretty good examples of what I would consider power-forwards. Ovechkin is also considered to many to be the best power-forward in the game today, and he's only had 2 fights in his career. Franzen was also a pretty good power-forward in his own right, but when it came to fighting, he may have been one of the worst I've seen...

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14 hours ago, NerveDamage said:

Bieksa's 2nd One Punch KO of the season

Second TKO of the season.  There's a difference.  

40 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Keith definitely played with an edge. I'm not sure how many times he was suspended in his career, but I'd think he would have been several times in today's game. I wouldn't say he was a cheap shot artist, but he definitely got his jabs in when he could. Like I said though, he could back it up. I'm okay with players like that, as long as they don't cross the line. Matt may be towing that line now...

Keith had 18 fights in his career. He never would have been confused for an enforcer, but I think he was definitely considered a power-forward in his day. Your definition may be different from mine, but I don't think you need to be a heavy fighter to be a power-forward. To me, Ryan Getzlaf and Jamie Benn have been two of the better power-forwards in the game the past decade, and neither have ever been big time fighters, but can definitely hold their own. Blake Wheeler and Rick Nash are also pretty good examples of what I would consider power-forwards. Ovechkin is also considered to many to be the best power-forward in the game today, and he's only had 2 fights in his career. Franzen was also a pretty good power-forward in his own right, but when it came to fighting, he may have been one of the worst I've seen...

I think a power forward does need to fight.  Calling someone like Ovechkin or Franzen a power forward confuses the definition of what a power forward was branded in the 90's, with guys like Stevens, Tocchet, Shanahan, and Neely.  

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44 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

I think a power forward does need to fight.  Calling someone like Ovechkin or Franzen a power forward confuses the definition of what a power forward was branded in the 90's, with guys like Stevens, Tocchet, Shanahan, and Neely.  

So do you draw the line at Ovechkin and Franzen? If so, I'd somewhat agree. I do believe the other 4 I mentioned are / were legit power-forwards in this league though. If not, that's like saying guys like Ovechkin and Crosby (40-50) aren't goal scorers because it confuses the definition of what a goal scorer was branded in the 90's (60-70), with guys like Hull, Lemieux, Jagr, Selanne, and Bure. Who would you consider a true power-forward in today's game? Lucic? Simmonds? The league has changed and moved away from fighting (whether we like it or not), so I think the standard should change as well. Whether that's how many goals you need to score to be considered a goal scorer, how many assists you need to be considered a play maker, or how many fights you need to be considered a power forward...

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1 hour ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Second *One Punch TKO of the season.  There's a difference.  

I think a power forward does need to fight.  Calling someone like Ovechkin or Franzen a power forward confuses the definition of what a power forward was branded in the 90's, with guys like Stevens, Tocchet, Shanahan, and Neely.  

* fixed it.

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6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

So do you draw the line at Ovechkin and Franzen? If so, I'd somewhat agree. I do believe the other 4 I mentioned are / were legit power-forwards in this league though. If not, that's like saying guys like Ovechkin and Crosby (40-50) aren't goal scorers because it confuses the definition of what a goal scorer was branded in the 90's (60-70), with guys like Hull, Lemieux, Jagr, Selanne, and Bure. Who would you consider a true power-forward in today's game? Lucic? Simmonds? The league has changed and moved away from fighting (whether we like it or not), so I think the standard should change as well. Whether that's how many goals you need to score to be considered a goal scorer, how many assists you need to be considered a play maker, or how many fights you need to be considered a power forward...

Since fighting is down, it's even harder now than it used to be to describe a "power forward".  Benn had 4 fights last season, but power forwards in the early 90's would find that number pathetic.  Getzlaf is a big wimp.  I don't remember Nash or Wheeler fighting much.  Lucic and Simmonds are definitely more of a "power forward" than any of the players you described.    

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2 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Since fighting is down, it's even harder now than it used to be to describe a "power forward".  Benn had 4 fights last season, but power forwards in the early 90's would find that number pathetic.  Getzlaf is a big wimp.  I don't remember Nash or Wheeler fighting much.  Lucic and Simmonds are definitely more of a "power forward" than any of the players you described.

Again, it depends on ones definition of what a power forward is in today's game. To me, all of the players I mentioned (Getzlaf, Benn, Nash and Wheeler) are power-forwards of the modern era, and in their prime were much better players than Lucic or Simmonds. Benn and Wheeler are probably my two favorite non Wings players. 

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13 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Keith definitely played with an edge. I'm not sure how many times he was suspended in his career, but I'd think he would have been several times in today's game. I wouldn't say he was a cheap shot artist, but he definitely got his jabs in when he could. Like I said though, he could back it up. I'm okay with players like that, as long as they don't cross the line. Matt may be towing that line now...

Keith had 18 fights in his career. He never would have been confused for an enforcer, but I think he was definitely considered a power-forward in his day. Your definition may be different from mine, but I don't think you need to be a heavy fighter to be a power-forward. To me, Ryan Getzlaf and Jamie Benn have been two of the better power-forwards in the game the past decade, and neither have ever been big time fighters, but can definitely hold their own. Blake Wheeler and Rick Nash are also pretty good examples of what I would consider power-forwards. Ovechkin is also considered to many to be the best power-forward in the game today, and he's only had 2 fights in his career. Franzen was also a pretty good power-forward in his own right, but when it came to fighting, he may have been one of the worst I've seen...

Which I am fine with. That's not how I see Matt Tkachuk play tho. Take the Wit incident. He waited until Wit stepped off the ice to hit him with his stick knowing (or expecting) that Wit wouldn't/couldn't do anything about it (without getting suspended anyway). And where was he when Wit turned around and came back on the ice? Was he dropping his gloves and saying "Let's go"? No. He had an official and another player between them as he continued to bark at Witkowski. That's cowardice. Do you think he would do that on the ice to a player like Wit knowing that he would get the snot beat out of him for it? I don't. He's not a power forward at all like his father, because Keith would have dropped the gloves and at least held his own. Guys like Matt Tkachuk jab, poke, slash, and trash talk players who lack any fighting skills and then run away from the guys who can take them. I would rather have guys like Daniel Tkaczuk on this team (which we already do unfortunately) than Matthew any day.

Would love to see Tkachuk on the wrong end of this:

download.jpg.dfe73b88394f93980096c84b5e6f87d0.jpg

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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8 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Which I am fine with. That's not how I see Matt Tkachuk play tho. Take the Wit incident. He waited until Wit stepped off the ice to hit him with his stick knowing (or expecting) that Wit wouldn't/couldn't do anything about it (without getting suspended anyway). And where was he when Wit turned around and came back on the ice? Was he dropping his gloves and saying "Let's go"? No. He had an official and another player between them as he continued to bark at Witkowski. That's cowardice. Do you think he would do that on the ice to a player like Wit knowing that he would get the snot beat out of him for it? I don't. He's not a power forward at all like his father, because Keith would have dropped the gloves and at least held his own. Guys like Matt Tkachuk jab, poke, slash, and trash talk players who lack any fighting skills and then run away from the guys who can take them. I would rather have guys like Daniel Tkaczuk on this team (which we already do unfortunately) than Matthew any day.

Would love to see Tkachuk on the wrong end of this:

You seem to be describing a Marchand or Gallagher type. I don't see Tkatchuk as that type of player at all. We're talking about a 19 year old kid here, that's still developing and growing. He's already 6'2", 200lbs. and will likely be around 220lbs when he's done filling out. He's already been in 3 fights, and held his own in all 3. He has way too much skill to ever become an enforcer, but I don't think he'll be a dirty rat that hacks and slashes and cowers in the corner like you described either. He will likely play on the edge and back it up, very similarly to his old man in my opinion.

Do you really think Tkatchuk planned to jab Witkowski after he stepped off the ice, knowing that he couldn't come back on or it would be a 10 game suspension? I really don't believe that much planning went into it. He probably didn't want to fight Witkowski, being a prototypical enforcer that is in the NHL for the sole purpose to fight, but I'm sure he would have. Cramarossa and McNabb are both tough guys, and I'm sure he'll fight many more, if he wants to continue to play with an edge. You may not consider Tkatchuk to be a power-forward now (I do), but give it a year or two, and I think he will be known around the league as one of the better power-forwards in the NHL...

Love him or hate him, his style of play is very effective, and I'd love to have him on this team. Red Wings fans hated Chelios / Bertuzzi when they were in Chicago / Vancouver, but both quickly became fan favorites when they arrived in Detroit. I think Tkatchuk could be similar to Bertuzzi pre Moore incident.

* I'd also like to point out that I was way off on the total fights for Keith Tkatchuk... I said he had 18 fights... He actually had 51! No idea where I got the previous number...

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Tkachuk is certainly bigger and stronger and braver than the arch rat Marchand, but he's still a skilled agitator rather than an old school power forward because he looks to get under people's skin, do things that break 'the code' but not the rules and generally wind the opposition up rather than use his physical presence and toughness in a more intimidatory fashion. 

A proper power forward rarely resorts to his kind of antics. he's going to be really hated in this league, because he wants to be.

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50 minutes ago, lomekian said:

Tkachuk is certainly bigger and stronger and braver than the arch rat Marchand, but he's still a skilled agitator rather than an old school power forward because he looks to get under people's skin, do things that break 'the code' but not the rules and generally wind the opposition up rather than use his physical presence and toughness in a more intimidatory fashion. 

A proper power forward rarely resorts to his kind of antics. he's going to be really hated in this league, because he wants to be.

I disagree with pretty much all of this... Lucic is a dirt bag. Is he not a power forward? What about Perry? Is he not a power forward because he likes to get under people's skin?

I disagree that a power forward must be a great fighter and abide "the code". In my opinion, a power forward is a big, strong forward, that is hard to knock off the puck, goes hard to the net, digs in the corners, plays physically, fights when called upon, and produces points. All things that describe a young Matt Tkatchuk...

Anyway, regardless how people want to categorize his style of play, I'd love to have him on this team. Most Wings fans are excited for Tyler Bertuzzi, well imagine a much bigger, stronger, tougher, more skilled version of that...

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

You seem to be describing a Marchand or Gallagher type. I don't see Tkatchuk as that type of player at all. We're talking about a 19 year old kid here, that's still developing and growing. He's already 6'2", 200lbs. and will likely be around 220lbs when he's done filling out. He's already been in 3 fights, and held his own in all 3. He has way too much skill to ever become an enforcer, but I don't think he'll be a dirty rat that hacks and slashes and cowers in the corner like you described either. He will likely play on the edge and back it up, very similarly to his old man in my opinion.

Do you really think Tkatchuk planned to jab Witkowski after he stepped off the ice, knowing that he couldn't come back on or it would be a 10 game suspension? I really don't believe that much planning went into it. He probably didn't want to fight Witkowski, being a prototypical enforcer that is in the NHL for the sole purpose to fight, but I'm sure he would have. Cramarossa and McNabb are both tough guys, and I'm sure he'll fight many more, if he wants to continue to play with an edge. You may not consider Tkatchuk to be a power-forward now (I do), but give it a year or two, and I think he will be known around the league as one of the better power-forwards in the NHL...

Love him or hate him, his style of play is very effective, and I'd love to have him on this team. Red Wings fans hated Chelios / Bertuzzi when they were in Chicago / Vancouver, but both quickly became fan favorites when they arrived in Detroit. I think Tkatchuk could be similar to Bertuzzi pre Moore incident.

* I'd also like to point out that I was way off on the total fights for Keith Tkatchuk... I said he had 18 fights... He actually had 51! No idea where I got the previous number...

download.jpg.21ee5bec3f56800aa3b7a436f4bd1c3b.jpg

18..51..it doesn't change anything. Your point still holds true.

You're not wrong about Tkachuk, I just refuse to agree with you because of my blinding dislike for the guy.

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20 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I disagree with pretty much all of this... Lucic is a dirt bag. Is he not a power forward? What about Perry? Is he not a power forward because he likes to get under people's skin?

I disagree that a power forward must be a great fighter and abide "the code". In my opinion, a power forward is a big, strong forward, that is hard to knock off the puck, goes hard to the net, digs in the corners, plays physically, fights when called upon, and produces points. All things that describe a young Matt Tkatchuk...

Anyway, regardless how people want to categorize his style of play, I'd love to have him on this team. Most Wings fans are excited for Tyler Bertuzzi, well imagine a much bigger, stronger, tougher, more skilled version of that...

I'm not saying that Tkatchuk wouldn't be brilliant to have on this team. I just haven't seen enough of the qualities you describe to see him as a power forward. He probably will graduate to what I would recognise as one as he develops, but to date, I've seen more evidence of being a snide than of what you outline.

And yes Lucic IS a dirt-bag, but he is also an absolute beast when on his game, and is capable of totally physically dominating opponents. Tkatchuk isn't yet for me. As for Perry, I never really though of him as a power forward. A very good forward yes, but more of an all-rounder with an edge.

As for little Bert, he seems more like a small swiss army knife player with an agitator's streak. Sort of like Marchand lite, with the lite also being on the douchbaggery, as well as the speed and skill. Also, Bertuzzi seems to be increasingly focusing on putting up points rather than starting conflicts.

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19 minutes ago, lomekian said:

I'm not saying that Tkatchuk wouldn't be brilliant to have on this team. I just haven't seen enough of the qualities you describe to see him as a power forward. He probably will graduate to what I would recognise as one as he develops, but to date, I've seen more evidence of being a snide than of what you outline.

And yes Lucic IS a dirt-bag, but he is also an absolute beast when on his game, and is capable of totally physically dominating opponents. Tkatchuk isn't yet for me. As for Perry, I never really though of him as a power forward. A very good forward yes, but more of an all-rounder with an edge.

As for little Bert, he seems more like a small swiss army knife player with an agitator's streak. Sort of like Marchand lite, with the lite also being on the douchbaggery, as well as the speed and skill. Also, Bertuzzi seems to be increasingly focusing on putting up points rather than starting conflicts.

I agree that Tkachuk may not be there yet, but he's just 19 years old. I'm just saying he has all the qualities to become a great power-forward, and I certainly see him developing that way rather than just an agitator. I disagree on Perry. He was considered to be one of the best power-forwards in the league a few years ago. I completely agree on Bertuzzi. But to be clear, I don't think he will ever be a power forward, I was talking about his uncle when describing the power-forward. Bert will likely be a bottom 6 agitator type, in the mold of Maltby.

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On 11/30/2017 at 1:58 PM, GMRwings1983 said:

A fight between real power forwards

 

 

That's back when the NBA was still watchable.

On 12/1/2017 at 12:28 PM, Keep Your Stick On the Ice said:

We need a Derek Boogaard....who can also score. 

We already have too many dead guys on this team.

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7 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

That's back when the NBA was still watchable.

We already have too many dead guys on this team.

Ya....we ***** about parity in the NHL, but is the NBA better? Every year is the exact same thing, so boring to watch when only 2 teams (maybe 3 this year) stand a chance at winning a championship. 

I know people will mention Pittsburgh/Chicago/LA in the NHL, but in the NHL the other teams stand a chance. In the NBA, there is no way in hell Golden State loses to anyone other then maybe Houston and Cleveland, and even that's a stretch. 

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