The next captian: #39 Anthony Mantha!

[chaps80 1,591]

23 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Nah, I'd take the bet on Larkin being the next captain over Abdelkader. 

I know the captain doesn't necessarily have to be the best player, and it can go to a role player, as we've seen with Steve Ott captaining the Sabres, or Tim Taylor, the Lightning, or Andrew Ferrence, the Oilers... But are we willing to set our captaincy standard to that level? We're going to go from Steve Yzerman, to Nicklas Lidstrom, to Henrik Zetterberg, to Justin Abdelkader? I'd be very surprised if that were to happen, and to be honest, a little annoyed. Abby is a great alternate captain, I just wouldn't want him wearing the C...

Larkin will get the C when Zetterberg retires, Abdelkader will keep his A, and DeKeyser will get the other A when Kronwall retires. If we ever decide to go back to 3 alternates, maybe Mantha, Rasmussen or Cholowski get it...

Yzerman was a different type of captain compared to Lidstrom and Zetterberg though. I got the feeling that Lids wasn’t a big leadership guy in the dressing room, same as I do with Z. They showed/show it on the ice with their skill, but that’s not the same. Skill doesn’t automatically mean leadership ability. Yzerman had both. I wouldn’t see it as a decline in captaincy standards. If a guy is a vocal veteran and can lead, why not? He’s also one of the few guys on the team with a Cup ring. Larkin hasn’t done anything to earn the C yet. He’s still pretty young. I’d like to see the Wings wait on it. Just my opinion.

[krsmith17 7,191]

29 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Yzerman was a different type of captain compared to Lidstrom and Zetterberg though. I got the feeling that Lids wasn’t a big leadership guy in the dressing room, same as I do with Z. They showed/show it on the ice with their skill, but that’s not the same. Skill doesn’t automatically mean leadership ability. Yzerman had both. I wouldn’t see it as a decline in captaincy standards. If a guy is a vocal veteran and can lead, why not? He’s also one of the few guys on the team with a Cup ring. Larkin hasn’t done anything to earn the C yet. He’s still pretty young. I’d like to see the Wings wait on it. Just my opinion.

I know skill level doesn't determine whether or not you can captain a team. I said exactly that in the post you replied to. I disagree though that it wouldn't be a decline in captaincy standards...

Has Zetterberg announced his retirement and I missed it? It's still 3 1/2 years until he officially retires. He may leave before then, but he's here for at least another year or two. Larkin will be 23-24 by then. It's not like we'd be handing it off to a 19 year old kid... Larkin has also been being groomed to take over since day one, immediately given a stall next to Z.

Time will tell, but I'd make a wager on this one for sure.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

20 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

It’s not always the best player on the team that gets the C. Sometimes it’s purely leadership qualities. MacKenzie wears the C in FLA, and wore it in Columbus. And the Wings seem to have a tradition of passing the C onto veteran A’s. Big on loyalty. Abby is a vocal presence in the locker room and a great PR guy and very involved in the community.

Didnt Z say he wasn’t interested in playing the last two seasons of his contract? Front loaded, gets cut in half next season. Final two only makes a million per in each. Not much time left if he is going to bail after next season.

I dunno, I just don’t see Larkin getting handed the C after one more season.

Watching the recent game where Larkin was mic'd up, you could see how vocal Larkin already is in directing other players. He's quietly taking over the 1C position so far this year and I think he continues these trends of being central to the team, I think it will be him whenever Z retires.

I'd be very surprised if Abby is ever in consideration. I think Role players are usually chosen when a team's skilled players are too new to the team/league: eg, Mackenzie was chosen since Ekblad was in his 1st year there, Trocheck, Barkov in their 2nd year (+huberdeau was looking like a disappointment).

Z discounted that report and said he'll play until he's unable to. Even if he stopped with 2 years left, Larkin would be 4 years with the team/league and, I think, experienced/respected enough.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1. Kronner will retire before Z, so he wont be the next Captain.
2. The Wings don't just give the "C" to veterans. Yzerman was all of 21 when he was given the captaincy in '86, ahead of guys like Ogrodnick and Gallant (alternates) who were older and had more experience at that time. 
3. Abby won't be getting the "C". Guys like MacKenzie and Ott may have worn it, but they weren't being paid above what they were bringing. Abby is. Not a knock on Abby. The guy comes to play every game, which is admirable; but, you can't have ur captain making twice as much money while putting up half the points of the guys he's leading. Abby will continue as an alternate.
4. Larkin is the new "Yzerman". Has anyone at that age made the roster since Yzerman? He plays center. He puts up points. He leads by example. He's a quiet leader. Will he be as good as Stevie Y? No, but he will be the next Captain in the mold of Yzerman.

[kliq 3,755]

16 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

1. Kronner will retire before Z, so he wont be the next Captain.
2. The Wings don't just give the "C" to veterans. Yzerman was all of 21 when he was given the captaincy in '86, ahead of guys like Ogrodnick and Gallant (alternates) who were older and had more experience at that time. 
3. Abby won't be getting the "C". Guys like MacKenzie and Ott may have worn it, but they weren't being paid above what they were bringing. Abby is. Not a knock on Abby. The guy comes to play every game, which is admirable; but, you can't have ur captain making twice as much money while putting up half the points of the guys he's leading. Abby will continue as an alternate.
4. Larkin is the new "Yzerman". Has anyone at that age made the roster since Yzerman? He plays center. He puts up points. He leads by example. He's a quiet leader. Will he be as good as Stevie Y? No, but he will be the next Captain in the mold of Yzerman.

I agree with pretty much all of this, except the bold. While I agree Abby will not be captain, I dont think the GM and coach take caphit into consideration, and they shouldn't. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

9 minutes ago, kliq said:

I agree with pretty much all of this, except the bold. While I agree Abby will not be captain, I dont think the GM and coach take caphit into consideration, and they shouldn't. 

I was thinking more of the viewpoint from the players, not management. If ur boss at work was making a lot more money than you and had less work to show for it, how likely are you to listen to him/her? 

But then again, by that time Larkin, AA, and Mantha will have had their paydays and Abby will be on a new contract that hopefully is more reasonable so that may not matter.

[kliq 3,755]

16 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I was thinking more of the viewpoint from the players, not management. If ur boss at work was making a lot more money than you and had less work to show for it, how likely are you to listen to him/her? 

But then again, by that time Larkin, AA, and Mantha will have had their paydays and Abby will be on a new contract that hopefully is more reasonable so that may not matter.

I dont think players look at it that way, most player are happy for guys when they get their "payday" especially on a team like the Wings.

I get your point with the boss thing, but most people think they do more/know more then their boss, because most people have no clue what their boss does behind closed doors. Granted hockey is different as its all out there, but I really dont think players resent other players due to their contracts.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

21 hours ago, kliq said:

I dont think players look at it that way, most player are happy for guys when they get their "payday" especially on a team like the Wings.

I get your point with the boss thing, but most people think they do more/know more then their boss, because most people have no clue what their boss does behind closed doors. Granted hockey is different as its all out there, but I really dont think players resent other players due to their contracts.

No, not resentment. Don't think any of the kids are like that. Just think its easier for an overachiever to motivate than an underachiever is what I'm saying. Just my opinion tho.

[kliq 3,755]

31 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No, not resentment. Don't think any of the kids are like that. Just think its easier for an overachiever to motivate than an underachiever is what I'm saying. Just my opinion tho.

You can look at that two ways.

Abby is currently being paid 4+ mil per year and was signed to a 7 year contract which he is not playing up to, hence he is an underachiever.

Abby was drafted 42nd overall and was never supposed to amount to anything more then a 3rd/4th line grinder, yet was able to land himself a 7 year 30 million contract, plays in the top 6 and has become assistant captain. Hence he is an overachiever.

Truth probably lays somewhere in between. 

I guess it all depends on perspective. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

16 points (4 goals, 12 assists) in 21 games. Not too shAbby!

[kliq 3,755]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

16 points (4 goals, 12 assists) in 21 games. Not too shAbby!

Exactly! He’s not even underachieving this year.

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

The next captain should be the leader of the youth movement. Mantha or Larkin. 

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

5 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Captian, you mean.

Phone lost my Capital      "C"

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

19 hours ago, kliq said:

You can look at that two ways.

Abby is currently being paid 4+ mil per year and was signed to a 7 year contract which he is not playing up to, hence he is an underachiever.

Abby was drafted 42nd overall and was never supposed to amount to anything more then a 3rd/4th line grinder, yet was able to land himself a 7 year 30 million contract, plays in the top 6 and has become assistant captain. Hence he is an overachiever.

Truth probably lays somewhere in between. 

I guess it all depends on perspective. 

First bold: 100% agree. Not saying the players or organization believe that, but a lot of fans do. Exactly the reason he shouldn't be captain.

Second bold with italics: 100% agree. Exactly the reason he has earned, deserves to be an alternate.

Third bold underlined: 100% agree. It's the fact that BOTH can be said about him that he shouldn't be captain. Previous captains (Y, Z, Lids) all had impeccable records. No one could really argue that they didn't deserve it, hadn't earned it. None of them could be said to be "underachievers".

Abby doesn't fit that mold, so no "C".

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

11 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

16 points (4 goals, 12 assists) in 21 games. Not too shAbby!

I agree. He's not underachieving this year. I posted in another thread that before his injury, he was like 5th? in points among forwards. He is putting up 2nd line numbers and is outperforming both Nyquist and Tatar who are underacheiving this year IMO. Only a 1/4 of the way thru the season, and Abby has scored only 5 points less than he did all of last year. Definitely not underachieving this season. He's on pace for 64 points, his best ever. If he does that, the haters will be silenced, for now.

As I'm sure most of you already know, Abby's criticism comes from the fact that he dropped way down in points (21) last season from the season before (42). Based on his contract, I think some people's expectations were too high, that he was supposed to be a power forward with hands. He's not. I think he's better than last year's numbers, that it's an anomaly. And if he continues to score around 60 points a season, people's opinion of him will change (If they're being reasonable).

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I agree. He's not underachieving this year. I posted in another thread that before his injury, he was like 5th? in points among forwards. He is putting up 2nd line numbers and is outperforming both Nyquist and Tatar who are underacheiving this year IMO. Only a 1/4 of the way thru the season, and Abby has scored only 5 points less than he did all of last year. Definitely not underachieving this season. He's on pace for 64 points, his best ever. If he does that, the haters will be silenced, for now.

As I'm sure most of you already know, Abby's criticism comes from the fact that he dropped way down in points (21) last season from the season before (42). Based on his contract, I think some people's expectations were too high, that he was supposed to be a power forward with hands. He's not. I think he's better than last year's numbers, that it's an anomaly. And if he continues to score around 60 points a season, people's opinion of him will change (If they're being reasonable).

Abdelkader only missed one game on November 11th against Columbus. Since then, in the past 4 games he has 7 points (2 goals, 5 assists). He's obviously not going to keep anywhere close to that pace, nor is he likely to keep the *61* point pace. I'd love nothing more than to see him do it though and become an annual 60 point player, but I wouldn't bet on that. If he can hover around the 40-45 point range for the next 3-5 years, maybe top 50 in one season, I'll be happy.

I'm sure his down season last year has a lot to do with fans hating on him, but I think it has more to do with his contract. I personally love Abby. He's the type of player you want on your team, and he's a solid middle 6 winger. If he were paid about $0.5-1M less, on a 4-5 year contract, instead of 7, I don't think many fans would have a problem with him.

Anyway, I think Abdelkader is a good alternate captain, but I'd be shocked to ever see him wear the C in Detroit...

[kliq 3,755]

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

First bold: 100% agree. Not saying the players or organization believe that, but a lot of fans do. Exactly the reason he shouldn't be captain.

Second bold with italics: 100% agree. Exactly the reason he has earned, deserves to be an alternate.

Third bold underlined: 100% agree. It's the fact that BOTH can be said about him that he shouldn't be captain. Previous captains (Y, Z, Lids) all had impeccable records. No one could really argue that they didn't deserve it, hadn't earned it. None of them could be said to be "underachievers".

Abby doesn't fit that mold, so no "C".

For the record, I dont think he should be captain either. I just dont think the contract should have anything to do with it.

This isn't directed at your post, but to be fair, what do any of us really know. Leadership is the hardest skill for fans to judge, as unless players are talking to the media about, we have zero clue what happens in that locker room. Sure we see snippets here and there of players yelling something from the bench, but for the most part true leadership takes place behind closed doors, or on the ice hidden from us.

[kickazz 5,459]

13 minutes ago, kliq said:

For the record, I dont think he should be captain either. I just dont think the contract should have anything to do with it.

This isn't directed at your post, but to be fair, what do any of us really know. Leadership is the hardest skill for fans to judge, as unless players are talking to the media about, we have zero clue what happens in that locker room. Sure we see snippets here and there of players yelling something from the bench, but for the most part true leadership takes place behind closed doors, or on the ice hidden from us.

I think the teammates are the best indicators of who is a good leader. 

[kliq 3,755]

1 minute ago, kickazz said:

I think the teammates are the best indicators of who is a good leader. 

Agreed. Kind of like the time Toews had a temper tantrum against us in the playoffs and was melting down in the box and Seabrook came over and had a talking to him like a parent to a child. Im sure Towes would credit Seabrook with being a good leader in that moment. 

So I guess the moral here is that Toews sucks.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

2 hours ago, kliq said:

Agreed. Kind of like the time Toews had a temper tantrum against us in the playoffs and was melting down in the box and Seabrook came over and had a talking to him like a parent to a child. Im sure Towes would credit Seabrook with being a good leader in that moment. 

So I guess the moral here is that Toews sucks.

Without that father son chat they don't win the cup. Seabrook is a better leader than captain 40 points. 

[kickazz 5,459]

9 hours ago, kliq said:

Agreed. Kind of like the time Toews had a temper tantrum against us in the playoffs and was melting down in the box and Seabrook came over and had a talking to him like a parent to a child. Im sure Towes would credit Seabrook with being a good leader in that moment. 

So I guess the moral here is that Toews sucks.

 

6 hours ago, Euro_Twins said:

Without that father son chat they don't win the cup. Seabrook is a better leader than captain 40 points. 

Ya’ll just trolled the entire blackhawks fan base and the troll berzeench.

Savages

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

23 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Abdelkader only missed one game on November 11th against Columbus. Since then, in the past 4 games he has 7 points (2 goals, 5 assists). He's obviously not going to keep anywhere close to that pace, nor is he likely to keep the *61* point pace. I'd love nothing more than to see him do it though and become an annual 60 point player, but I wouldn't bet on that. If he can hover around the 40-45 point range for the next 3-5 years, maybe top 50 in one season, I'll be happy.

I'm sure his down season last year has a lot to do with fans hating on him, but I think it has more to do with his contract. I personally love Abby. He's the type of player you want on your team, and he's a solid middle 6 winger. If he were paid about $0.5-1M less, on a 4-5 year contract, instead of 7, I don't think many fans would have a problem with him.

Anyway, I think Abdelkader is a good alternate captain, but I'd be shocked to ever see him wear the C in Detroit...

It would have been more timely to say this yesterday, but isn't there a parade somewhere that you can rain on?

Edited November 25, 2017 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[chaps80 1,591]

On 2017-11-16 at 8:22 PM, NotTooAbby said:

Abby is going to be the next Captain... He's from Michigan, does a lot in the community, and if you haven't noticed gives a lot of interviews, which is a good sign for a captain.

When that happens, Larkin and DK will also get the A... Not only are they both from Michigan also, they will both have long-term contracts by that time, and be mainstays in the lineup/organization.

Yeah I really don’t see Abby getting passed over for it. This team doesn’t just hand the C to young players. People can use Yzerman to refute that, but he was given it during a really bad period in franchise history where they were looking for a young talented star to help turn things around and put asses in the seats again.

The Wings handing him the C is no different than the Crosby/Ovie/McDavid thing I posted before. Generational players. You wanna keep them happy, show your glad to have them on board and give them the reigns while you use them as a cornerstone to rebuild. Larkin isn’t on that level, and Wings aren’t in that bad of a spot. Pretty sure the C is Abby’s.

[Dabura 12,207]

The C is not Abby's. I'm genuinely surprised that people think this will be a thing.

I guess time will tell which of us is right.

(Srsly tho, I'm right. )

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

 

Ever been to O'Hare?  Giant mural of Toews there.  Pretty cool.

Spat on it and sent it to everyone on snap chat