kliq 3,755 Report post Posted November 20, 2017 19 minutes ago, Richdg said: and a bad back. But we are winning without him being a major producer. As far as we know his back is no different then last year, but the fact that we are winning despite him not carrying us is very good news. 2 krsmith17 and PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted November 20, 2017 Generally speaking, older players start slow and come on strong later, while young players start fast and fade off. 3 hours ago, DickieDunn said: Larkin and Mantha are in a multi-way tie at 31 in scoring league wide. Howard is #3 in save% and #4 in GAA for goalies playing in 10+ games. I'd say they are top 50 players in the league. They're still sitting out of the playoffs right now,and still one bad stretch away from being one of the worst teams in the East, and it's still fairly early int he season. If they improve to the point where they're top 3 in the division by more than an eyelash by the middle of January, I'll start believing a little bit. Until then, I'll stay skeptical. I was referring to the list the league came out with before the season. There wasn't a single Red Wing on it. And I agree that it's still very early. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted November 20, 2017 2 hours ago, DickieDunn said: The team hasn't given much reason to be optimistic the last few years. Maybe I'm just turning into a crusty old man, but I'll believe they're better when they can prove it over at least half a season. I mean, if we're being really honest, the team doesn't appear to be significantly better than last year's team, at least in terms of results. Record is very similar through 21 games, we've had a pretty soft schedule in terms of the quality of our opponents (what are the best teams we've faced this season and how many of those games have we won?), we're still getting routinely outshot, we're still leaning too much on our goaltending, and we're probably headed for another bottom ten finish. But there are signs of improvement -- or at least reasons for cautious optimism -- in certain areas, which is good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted November 20, 2017 I voted for the kids. It wasn't a choice, but I also wonder if the "streak" had anything to do with it. Last year the team was playing with the possibility that they could be the ones to end it hanging over their collective heads. Not good for dressing room morale for sure. By the trade deadline it was obvious that management had given up on the season and that couldn't have felt good to the guys. Now that the "streak" is over and the "rebuild" is on, there is less pressure and lowered expectations. The guys can just go out and play. I think that's also a part of it. Not really what you asked for, but I hope that's OK Kip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) Too early to say they're better. They were about the same last year in the standings, before falling apart during a home stand. The better answer is, because kipwinger isn't here anymore. Edited November 20, 2017 by GMRwings1983 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted November 20, 2017 3 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said: Too early to say they're better. They were about the same last year in the standings, before falling apart during a home stand. The better answer is, because kipwinger isn't here anymore. Through 21 games they are 10-8-3. Last year after 21 games they were 10-10-1 The big difference is last year they won 6 of their first 8, then went on to lose 9 out of 11. Standings wise it is too early to tell, but I think they look better on the ice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted November 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, kliq said: Through 21 games they are 10-8-3. Last year after 21 games they were 10-10-1 The big difference is last year they won 6 of their first 8, then went on to lose 9 out of 11. Standings wise it is too early to tell, but I think they look better on the ice. Yeah but we all know that eye ball tests don't work and unless you are a mathfreak you have no idea what you're talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, kickazz said: Yeah but we all know that eye ball tests don't work and unless you are a mathfreak you have no idea what you're talking about. Where is @shocky2002 when you need a good corsi analysis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted November 21, 2017 On 19/11/2017 at 4:21 PM, DickieDunn said: Larkin and Mantha are in a multi-way tie at 31 in scoring league wide. Howard is #3 in save% and #4 in GAA for goalies playing in 10+ games. I'd say they are top 50 players in the league. They're still sitting out of the playoffs right now,and still one bad stretch away from being one of the worst teams in the East, and it's still fairly early int he season. If they improve to the point where they're top 3 in the division by more than an eyelash by the middle of January, I'll start believing a little bit. Until then, I'll stay skeptical. Also green. He is among top defenceman points wise. Multi way tie for 3rd 2 PavelValerievichDatsyuk and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted November 21, 2017 Howard is healthy. Daley + Green (only 2 decent dmen we have) Kids have taken the reigns 2 krsmith17 and PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 21, 2017 9 hours ago, Euro_Twins said: Also green. He is among top defenceman points wise. Multi way tie for 3rd I can almost smell the 1st round draft pick... 2 amato and Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted November 21, 2017 Where’s the “because we got rid of Sheahan” option? 1 DickieDunn reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted November 21, 2017 More advantageous distribution of quantum effects. Prove me wrong. 1 Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted November 23, 2017 They aren’t any better. Look great one game then completely fall apart the next one or few. 2 Keep Your Stick On the Ice and F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted November 23, 2017 45 minutes ago, chaps80 said: They aren’t any better. Look great one game then completely fall apart the next one or few. To be fair, you can say this about almost any team in sports. This is what happens when you have parity. On 11/21/2017 at 6:59 PM, Buppy said: More advantageous distribution of quantum effects. Prove me wrong. I think someone just wanted to be able to say "advantageous distribution of quantum effects". 1 Buppy reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted November 23, 2017 The last 2 games are why I questioned it and said I wanted to see them play better over a longer sample of games. 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted November 23, 2017 We are 2 points ahead in the standings. But the team does look better and is playing better. There is far more energy on the ice most nights. We are much faster most nights. The last couple of years the team looked like if we gave up 3 goals they knew we would lose the game. They don't play like that anymore. They know they can score 3 or more goals. Doesn't mean we are going to win but the effort is there all 60 mins most nights. I still think with better coaching we win more, but that is another thread. 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted November 24, 2017 It seems like individually, most of the players are equal to or better than last year. Some players were upgraded (Daley for Smith). Shouldn't they then be better collectively than last year? I think that might be why it seems that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted November 27, 2017 Helene with some numbers and such: http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/11/26/detroit-red-wings-schedule/895794001/ It’s a great positive for the Wings that those two are leading the team in points, Larkin with 21, Mantha with 20. At the 24-game mark last year, Henrik Zetterberg led the team with 16 points. This season four Wings have more points than that, as Justin Abdelkader and Mike Green each have 17. Tomas Tatar had four goals among seven points last year at this point; today he has seven goals and 11 points. Seven players have at least five goals; last year, it was two. One area that really sticks out is power play production – Mantha has five goals, Tatar and Martin Frk each have three. That’s as many power play goals the Wings had as a whole team at this point last year, and puts the power play overall at 22.7 percent, ninth in the NHL. The increased production puts the team at 14th overall in GF and 21st overall in GF/GP. Better than last season, but definitely mediocre. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Learn2LuvIt 245 Report post Posted November 27, 2017 I think they look better this year for sure. The younger groups are starting to develop some chemistry and I think this is producing a better neutral zone transition game. Special teams has improved. Mantha has also been key, I believe he's becoming the core leader (on and off the ice) of this young group and giving them a lot of confidence and an identity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewK80 39 Report post Posted November 27, 2017 On 11/23/2017 at 10:29 AM, Richdg said: We are 2 points ahead in the standings. But the team does look better and is playing better. There is far more energy on the ice most nights. We are much faster most nights. The last couple of years the team looked like if we gave up 3 goals they knew we would lose the game. They don't play like that anymore. They know they can score 3 or more goals. Doesn't mean we are going to win but the effort is there all 60 mins most nights. I still think with better coaching we win more, but that is another thread. And then the Edmonton game happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted November 27, 2017 15 hours ago, Dabura said: Helene with some numbers and such: http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/11/26/detroit-red-wings-schedule/895794001/ It’s a great positive for the Wings that those two are leading the team in points, Larkin with 21, Mantha with 20. At the 24-game mark last year, Henrik Zetterberg led the team with 16 points. This season four Wings have more points than that, as Justin Abdelkader and Mike Green each have 17. Tomas Tatar had four goals among seven points last year at this point; today he has seven goals and 11 points. Seven players have at least five goals; last year, it was two. One area that really sticks out is power play production – Mantha has five goals, Tatar and Martin Frk each have three. That’s as many power play goals the Wings had as a whole team at this point last year, and puts the power play overall at 22.7 percent, ninth in the NHL. The increased production puts the team at 14th overall in GF and 21st overall in GF/GP. Better than last season, but definitely mediocre. Thanks. It seems then that statistically speaking, the numbers say the team is better, but that is not translating into wins? Is that correct? That sure seems like what I'm seeing this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted November 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: Thanks. It seems then that statistically speaking, the numbers say the team is better, but that is not translating into wins? Is that correct? That sure seems like what I'm seeing this season. I think last season's team overachieved a bit in October and November; we were bad and we were probably lucky to get as many wins as we did. I think this season's team has been more solidly average, a true middle-of-the-pack team. Looking at the numbers (basic stats and possession metrics), 10-9-5 is right where you'd expect the team to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted December 1, 2017 They aren't. Some individual players are better, the team as a whole isn't. 1 puckbags reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckbags 863 Report post Posted December 1, 2017 32 minutes ago, DickieDunn said: They aren't. Some individual players are better, the team as a whole isn't. Agreed. This team will hover around .500 and if we want to make the playoffs we will have to go on a run in the 2nd half that I'm not sure we are capable of. If we want a legitimate shot at landing some free agents we need to find a way to unload salary. I like Green but that 6 milly has to come off the books. Mrazek won't be back next year at this point. Thats another 4 milly. Problem is that 10 million will go to signing Larkin, Mantha and AA. We need teams desperate at the trade deadline willing to trade for veteran guys like Ericcson. and take some of these garbage salaries. If not we are in purgatory for a few years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites