Standings, the good the bad and the ugly

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 11/28/2017 at 9:28 PM, Dabura said:

Yep. But a lot can change in the playoffs.

It's that kind of thinking that got us into this mess!!!!!!!!! 

[Dabura 12,207]

13 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

It's that kind of thinking that got us into this mess!!!!!!!!! 

Fair enough, but I'm not saying the Wings should be buyers at the deadline or anything like that. I'm just saying if we somehow make the playoffs, we might be capable of pulling off an upset in the first round.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Dabura

[Buppy 1,720]

22 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Unless Howard or Mrazek start playing like in his prime Hasek and they win every game 2-1 or 1-0 this team is sunk.  They have a stretch of games coming up where every opponent but one is ahead of or even with them in the standings.  They could easily be 3-8 through those 11 games if they don't start playing better

They could easily go 3-8 in any 11 games, regardless of opponent. Or 8-3. Such is parity.

[Dabura 12,207]

8 minutes ago, Buppy said:

They could easily go 3-8 in any 11 games, regardless of opponent. Or 8-3. Such is parity.

Fixed that for you.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

14 hours ago, Dabura said:

Fair enough, but I'm not saying the Wings should be buyers at the deadline or anything like that. I'm just saying if we somehow make the playoffs, we might be capable of pulling off an upset in the first round.

I know what you meant. I was just hearing Holland's Ghost of Playoffs Past voice in my head when you posted that.

[Dabura 12,207]

6 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I know what you meant. I was just hearing Holland's Ghost of Playoffs Past voice in my head when you posted that.

Understandable, lol.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Good has left the building (unless you want them to have the best possible shot at #1 overall).  They're now 5th in the Atlantic, every team behind them has played fewer games.  Ottawa and Florida could both catch ans pass them with their games in hand.  2 points behind Montreal with one game in hand, 1 point behind Boston, Bruins have 3 games in hand.  Of the teams behind them in the East, only Buffalo has no chance of catching them with their games in hand.  Edmonton and Arizona are the only teams behind them in the West.  

[Dabura 12,207]

2 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Good has left the building (unless you want them to have the best possible shot at #1 overall).  They're now 5th in the Atlantic, every team behind them has played fewer games.  Ottawa and Florida could both catch ans pass them with their games in hand.  2 points behind Montreal with one game in hand, 1 point behind Boston, Bruins have 3 games in hand.  Of the teams behind them in the East, only Buffalo has no chance of catching them with their games in hand.  Edmonton and Arizona are the only teams behind them in the West.  

[kjw25 104]

On 11/29/2017 at 11:20 PM, Dabura said:

Fair enough, but I'm not saying the Wings should be buyers at the deadline or anything like that. I'm just saying if we somehow make the playoffs, we might be capable of pulling off an upset in the first round.

Pulling an upset? Will it be are subpar defense that makes 12 turnovers a game that does it? Maybe it will be our "elite" offensive that does it. This team is bad and won't make the playoffs, but by some miracle they do, they will lose in first round. So tired of the "we need to play a full 60 minutes blah blah." This team is bad and that's all there is to it. We have 3 good young players, 2 of which management gives its digs to (Martha, aa) yet management never looks in the mirror and evaluates itself. Oh what a great day when Blashill and Kenny go and the team can at least go a new direction instead of pretending they are "one trade away from being elite." Does anyone else just wanna punch Blashills face with all his stupid sayings????????? "Ultra competitive" "elite" "process"  "real good hockey player" blASShill must go!!!!!!!

[kliq 3,755]

19 minutes ago, kjw25 said:

Pulling an upset? Will it be are subpar defense that makes 12 turnovers a game that does it? Maybe it will be our "elite" offensive that does it. This team is bad and won't make the playoffs, but by some miracle they do, they will lose in first round. So tired of the "we need to play a full 60 minutes blah blah." This team is bad and that's all there is to it. We have 3 good young players, 2 of which management gives its digs to (Martha, aa) yet management never looks in the mirror and evaluates itself. Oh what a great day when Blashill and Kenny go and the team can at least go a new direction instead of pretending they are "one trade away from being elite." Does anyone else just wanna punch Blashills face with all his stupid sayings????????? "Ultra competitive" "elite" "process"  "real good hockey player" blASShill must go!!!!!!!

We are an average team, to say we are awful is just an emotional response made out of frustration which I get.

I cant see us winning a 1st round matchup if we got in, but not because "we suck" but because if we get in, we are likely facing an elite team.

[Dabura 12,207]

If we make the playoffs, we're likely playing the Leafs in the first round. The Leafs are not an elite team. They have a thin defense; their leaders are young and green; they're built around one player; Marner and Nylander have struggled this season (relative to the expectations placed on them); know one knows if Frederik Andersen can get it done in the playoffs; know one knows how this young Leafs team would handle the pressure of being the favorite in a playoff series (the Toronto market is ruthless and ridiculous); and, as we all know, Babcock teams are not unbeatable.

[kliq 3,755]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

If we make the playoffs, we're likely playing the Leafs in the first round. The Leafs are not an elite team. They have a thin defense; their leaders are young and green; they're built around one player; Marner and Nylander have struggled this season (relative to the expectations placed on them); know one knows if Frederik Andersen can get it done in the playoffs; know one knows how this young Leafs team would handle the pressure of being the favorite in a playoff series (the Toronto market is ruthless and ridiculous); and, as we all know, Babcock teams are not unbeatable.

Good point. I was thinking if we got in we would get the final wild card and face TB, and we have all seen that play out twice.

Agreed, if we get the 3 spot, we could beat the Leafs.

[Dabura 12,207]

9 minutes ago, kliq said:

Good point. I was thinking if we got in we would get the final wild card and face TB, and we have all seen that play out twice.

Agreed, if we get the 3 spot, we could beat the Leafs.

Granted, a lot can change between now and postseason time. Maybe multiple Metro teams falter and the Atlantic surges and, consequently, getting in as a wild card becomes our only hope.

Though, even then, I think there are a couple top Metro teams that we could hold our own against in a best-of-seven series.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

10 hours ago, kliq said:

Agreed, if we get the 3 spot, we could beat the Leafs.

No.

10 hours ago, Dabura said:

Granted, a lot can change between now and postseason time. Maybe multiple Metro teams falter and the Atlantic surges and, consequently, getting in as a wild card becomes our only hope.

Though, even then, I think there are a couple top Metro teams that we could hold our own against in a best-of-seven series.

And lose in 6 games instead of 4.  That's almost as good as the Cup to Holland.

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

No.

Yes

Step out of the role as "cynical Wings fan" for just a moment and use some logic. They could beat the Leafs as their back-end is weak, and in a 7 game series I do believe Howard would out play Anderson (unless he he injures him self and becomes mediocre) and I dont mean they have a .00000001% shot so no need for a Lloyd Christmas meme. Do I think they would? No. Could they?

Yes.  

If you look at that match-up without wearing rose coloured or s*** coloured glasses, I think most say Leafs have the advantage but Wings could do it if the kids are on, and Howard plays to his ceiling. I could also see Z taking his game to the next level if he got back to the playoffs again (at least in the 1st round).

Edited December 3, 2017 by kliq

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Pre-2013, only the worst 5 finishers qualified for a lottery pick. That sucked for the teams that finished 6-14. It was worth it to make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed. That's no longer the case.  Back then, I would have said go for the playoffs if you aren't bad enough for the lottery. That's not the case anymore. Even the worst team has less than a 20% chance to snag #1.

The odds for the 2017 wild card teams to win the Cup were between 2.4 to 3.2%. The odds of picking in the top 3 even if you finish just outside the playoffs are between 1.0 and >4%. So if the odds are nearly the same, would you rather squeak into the playoffs and draft in the bottom half of the 1st round or finish outside the playoffs and have an equal chance to draft in the top 3?

So while the incentive to make the playoffs isn't there anymore, neither is the incentive to tank. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

9 hours ago, kliq said:

Yes

Step out of the role as "cynical Wings fan" for just a moment and use some logic. They could beat the Leafs as their back-end is weak, and in a 7 game series I do believe Howard would out play Anderson (unless he he injures him self and becomes mediocre) and I dont mean they have a .00000001% shot so no need for a Lloyd Christmas meme. Do I think they would? No. Could they?

Yes.  

If you look at that match-up without wearing rose coloured or s*** coloured glasses, I think most say Leafs have the advantage but Wings could do it if the kids are on, and Howard plays to his ceiling. I could also see Z taking his game to the next level if he got back to the playoffs again (at least in the 1st round).

 

You say it could happen because Toronto's blueline is weak.  What do you call Detroit's?  Toronto is better in every spot, including coaching.

IF everything goes perfect they could win a playoff series against Toronto.  The odds of that happening are about the same as me winning the Powerball. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

At least they have core players like Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, and Dekeyser locked up long term.

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

 

You say it could happen because Toronto's blueline is weak.  What do you call Detroit's?  Toronto is better in every spot, including coaching.

IF everything goes perfect they could win a playoff series against Toronto.  The odds of that happening are about the same as me winning the Powerball. 

And there is the hyperbole. Can't argue with hyperbole because nothing I say will matter.

 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Howard/Mrazek would have to play lights out, the defense would have to play far better as a unit than they have since Lidstrom retired, Zetterberg would have to find the fountain of youth, AA, Larkin, and Mantha would have to be at their very best, Nyquist and Larkin would both have to be on the top of their games, and Blashill would have to actually learn how to be an effective NHL coach, AND the Leafs would have to play under their capability for the Wings to beat them in a playoff series, assuming the even make the playoffs which is looking doubtful.

But you're right, saying they have virtually no chance is hyperbole. 

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Howard/Mrazek would have to play lights out, the defense would have to play far better as a unit than they have since Lidstrom retired, Zetterberg would have to find the fountain of youth, AA, Larkin, and Mantha would have to be at their very best, Nyquist and Larkin would both have to be on the top of their games, and Blashill would have to actually learn how to be an effective NHL coach, AND the Leafs would have to play under their capability for the Wings to beat them in a playoff series, assuming the even make the playoffs which is looking doubtful.

But you're right, saying they have virtually no chance is hyperbole. 

Wow! I guess I didn’t realize how high on the Leags you are? Can I ask, how many leafs games have you seen this year? 

As someone who has watched a ton, you need to stop drinking the Matthews koolaid. The leafs have a ton of potential, but you are giving them wayyyy to much credit in the here and now. The wings could beat the leafs.

But you’re right, no hyperbole from you. Wings beating the leafs in the first round if they play are definitely the same odds as you winning the lottery. You must have killed it in stats! 

Edited December 3, 2017 by kliq

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

9 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

 

You say it could happen because Toronto's blueline is weak.  What do you call Detroit's?  Toronto is better in every spot, including coaching.

IF everything goes perfect they could win a playoff series against Toronto.  The odds of that happening are about the same as me winning the Powerball. 

Mental note: Buy Powerball tickets NOW!

[DickieDunn 2,571]

20 hours ago, kliq said:

Wow! I guess I didn’t realize how high on the Leags you are? Can I ask, how many leafs games have you seen this year? 

As someone who has watched a ton, you need to stop drinking the Matthews koolaid. The leafs have a ton of potential, but you are giving them wayyyy to much credit in the here and now. The wings could beat the leafs.

But you’re right, no hyperbole from you. Wings beating the leafs in the first round if they play are definitely the same odds as you winning the lottery. You must have killed it in stats! 

Your argument was Detroit could win because the Leafs blueline is weak.  So is Detroit's, and Toronto has more talent and better coaching.

[kliq 3,755]

5 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Your argument was Detroit could win because the Leafs blueline is weak.  So is Detroit's, and Toronto has more talent and better coaching.

I remember fans like you when I was growing up. In 1994 so many people said "Sharks have ZERO chance beating the Wings, we are going to kill them!" Flash forward to Osgood making a stupid pass up the boards and I believe Larionov scoring the series winning goal. 

In 2003, "This ducks team is crap! We will sweep them!" Fast forward to us losing 4 straight.

Same thing against Calgary in 04, and Edmonton is 06.

I am not saying we could win the cup, I am saying we COULD win ONE playoff series. If history has shown us anything, its that any team can beat any other team in a best of 7 if a few things go their way. 

If you really dont understand how its hyperbole to say that the Wings beating the Leafs in a best of 7 is THE SAME as you winning the powerbowl, then either you truly don't understand what hyperbole means, or you are just being stubborn and over the top on purpose. (I'm guessing the later because I dont believe you are dumb).

Granted the examples I used above were fans saying we had no chance to lose, but saying the Wings have no chance to lose, is the same thing as saying they have no chance to win. Both are examples of being way to overconfident in a specific result, which history has taught us can easily bite you in the ass. Its professional sports, and its the NHL.

Either way, I dont think that we would beat the Leafs, I think we could. Despite Howards bad week, I do believe that a healthy Howard could outplay Andersson in a best of 7. I also believe that Z playing in his final playoffs, could neutralise Auston Mathews as I think he would put 110% out there which we all know he is capable of. If those things happen, and our kids play the way they are capable, we could win. What happens next? We likely get smoked by TB, but that is a different conversation. 

Not trying to be a jerk here Dickie, I just hate when fans have such arrogance in a result of a series/game as I have seen countless times where things dont go the way they so claim are a "sure thing".

 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Somehow they're still 5th in the division.  I guess that's one "advantage" of being in the worst division in your league.

Every team in the Metro division is better than they are.  Only Edmonton and Arizona are worse in the west.  Only Buffalo and Arizona are significantly behind them.

At this point the only chance at the playoffs is jumping Montreal and Boston while holding off Florida and Ottawa.  Being 3rd worst in the NHL and guaranteeing a pick in the top 6 is easily within reach.

A couple weeks ago I said they could easily go 3-8 over the 11 game stretch coming up.  Looks like I was overly optimistic.