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Jonas Mahonas

Ovechkin to 1,000 Goals?

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2 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

 

Wayne Gretzky, himself, has said it was easier to score in the 80s and alluded to guys like Fedorov and Crosby tearing it up if they played back then.

 

Everybody thinks of Mike Gartner as oner of the best skaters and goal scorers of all time.  He's on everyone's top 10 for those.

 

Backstrom and Kuznetsov: hold my beer

Gartner is on nobody's list of best goal scorers ever.  He was an accumulator.  He only scored 50 goals once despite playing in a high scoring era.  I can think of at least 20 guys who I think were better goal scorers.  

Backstrom never got Ovechkin anywhere.  It wasn't until they added Kuznetsov that they found a one two punch at the center ice position.  

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13 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Are you talking about women or hockey? Cuz he was second to Feds in both.

Na, Feds breached 50 goals once. Bure did that 5 times and hit 60 goals twice. Bure played on way worse teams too. On the 2000/01 Panthers Bure had 92 pts and 59 goals, the next highest scorer on the team had 37 pts. He basically did everything himself and still managed to outscore Feds that year. Feds also basically sucked after leaving a stacked Wings team.

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12 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Larry Robinson would b to 7'3" and have a plus minus of +6,500 for his career if he played in the 2030s and 2040s.  WTHF are you talking about, G?

How many guys back in the 70's were Larry Robinson's size?  How many players are there nowadays his size?  See the difference?  

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4 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

How many guys back in the 70's were Larry Robinson's size?  How many players are there nowadays his size?  See the difference?  

There are only a few guys Ovi's size.  You understand he is about 40 lbs heavier and 3" taller than league avg, right?

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12 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Gartner is on nobody's list of best goal scorers ever.  He was an accumulator.  He only scored 50 goals once despite playing in a high scoring era.  I can think of at least 20 guys who I think were better goal scorers.  

Backstrom never got Ovechkin anywhere.  It wasn't until they added Kuznetsov that they found a one two punch at the center ice position.  

https://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/goals_career.html

#8

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2 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

I know where he ranks.  He's an accumulator.  Bure isn't anywhere on that list and he was a much better goal scorer.  Francis is a better point scorer than Lemieux also.    

9 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

There are only a few guys Ovi's size.  You understand he is about 40 lbs heavier and 3" taller than league avg, right?

Heavier, yes.  Height wise, the league average is around 6'1 to 6'2.  

Edited by GMRwings1983

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5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Na, Feds breached 50 goals once. Bure did that 5 times and hit 60 goals twice. Bure played on way worse teams too. On the 2000/01 Panthers Bure had 92 pts and 59 goals, the next highest scorer on the team had 37 pts. He basically did everything himself and still managed to outscore Feds that year. Feds also basically sucked after leaving a stacked Wings team.

That '89 draft was probably the best Red Wings draft of all time, getting Lidstrom, Fedorov and Konstantinov, etc. And to think they also wanted to draft Bure in the 5th round, but were told he wasn't eligible, only to have Vancouver take him anyway in the 6th round... Imagine those Red Wings team's in the late 90's, early 2000's with Bure added to the mix... We likely would have won a Cup before '97, and more Cups than the 3 in those 6 years...

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6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

That '89 draft was probably the best Red Wings draft of all time, getting Lidstrom, Fedorov and Konstantinov, etc. And to think they also wanted to draft Bure in the 5th round, but were told he wasn't eligible, only to have Vancouver take him anyway in the 6th round... Imagine those Red Wings team's in the late 90's, early 2000's with Bure added to the mix... We likely would have won a Cup before '97, and more Cups than the 3 in those 6 years...

See man, the leagues' had it in for us for decades....  we'll certainly lose the rigged lotto...  If we draft behind Toronto or Montreal  %&*@

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On 1/22/2020 at 2:17 PM, Scott R Lucidi said:

There are only a few guys Ovi's size.  You understand he is about 40 lbs heavier and 3" taller than league avg, right?

Ovechkin is not 6'4.5 and 245lbs

On 1/22/2020 at 2:23 PM, Scott R Lucidi said:

Honestly, showing someone in the top 8 of all time goal scoring isn't much evidence that he should be thought of as one of the best goal scorers of all time.  It's some evidence for sure, but it doesn't tell nearly the whole story.  For example.....you'd probably find it difficult to find any knowledgeable hockey guy that would have Mike Bossy outside of the top 3 goal scorers of all-time and he doesn't even crack the top 20 on that list.

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7 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

Ovechkin is not 6'4.5 and 245lbs

Honestly, showing someone in the top 8 of all time goal scoring isn't much evidence that he should be thought of as one of the best goal scorers of all time.  It's some evidence for sure, but it doesn't tell nearly the whole story.  For example.....you'd probably find it difficult to find any knowledgeable hockey guy that would have Mike Bossy outside of the top 3 goal scorers of all-time and he doesn't even crack the top 20 on that list.

You gonna welch on our bet from 2 years ago?

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On 1/22/2020 at 3:41 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Na, Feds breached 50 goals once. Bure did that 5 times and hit 60 goals twice. Bure played on way worse teams too. On the 2000/01 Panthers Bure had 92 pts and 59 goals, the next highest scorer on the team had 37 pts. He basically did everything himself and still managed to outscore Feds that year. Feds also basically sucked after leaving a stacked Wings team.

Feds got Babcocked when he left Detroit.

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51 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

He has almost as many goals as the Red Wings this season...

He is on a tear right now.  I think the main difference with him and other scorers is what he can do when he's hot.  Never seen a player change his season pace so rapidly before.  I think you alluded to that in a way a few pages into this thread.

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2 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

He is on a tear right now.  I think the main difference with him and other scorers is what he can do when he's hot.  Never seen a player change his season pace so rapidly before.  I think you alluded to that in a way a few pages into this thread.

Maybe, maybe not.  I think, as a general rule, goal scorers are streaky.  I don't think you'll find very many 50 goal scorers who basically accumulate their 50 goals consistently game by game.  This is based on zero analysis on my part though.....perhaps his streakiness is more prominent, not sure.  All I know is that I hear all the time from experts how goal scorers are always streaky, so I've just taken it as fact.

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7 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

Maybe, maybe not.  I think, as a general rule, goal scorers are streaky.  I don't think you'll find very many 50 goal scorers who basically accumulate their 50 goals consistently game by game.  This is based on zero analysis on my part though.....perhaps his streakiness is more prominent, not sure.  All I know is that I hear all the time from experts how goal scorers are always streaky, so I've just taken it as fact.

I watched Shanny anf Robitaille a lot from early 90s to early 2000s, and I dont remember them being as inconsistent.  But like you said, this is eyeball and memory.  The stats may say otherwise.

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17 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

I watched Shanny anf Robitaille a lot from early 90s to early 2000s, and I dont remember them being as inconsistent.  But like you said, this is eyeball and memory.  The stats may say otherwise.

They have to be streaky. If a guy scores 40 goals for the season, that's basically one goal every 2 games. But we all know it doesn't happen that way. If he scores 2 goals in one game, then he has to add 2 more scoreless games to average out that 40 goal total. A hat trick one game, then he has to go scoreless in 5 other games, etc. Goal scorers would have to pot like 70 goals to be consistent, and no one does that anymore.

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13 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

They have to be streaky. If a guy scores 40 goals for the season, that's basically one goal every 2 games. But we all know it doesn't happen that way. If he scores 2 goals in one game, then he has to add 2 more scoreless games to average out that 40 goal total. A hat trick one game, then he has to go scoreless in 5 other games, etc. Goal scorers would have to pot like 70 goals to be consistent, and no one does that anymore.

FWIW the longest Ovechkin has gone without a goal this year is three games.  He's got 4 hatties.  I'd say he's both consistent AND scores in bunches.  Hence why he's the best ever. 

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9 hours ago, greenrebellion said:

Goal scorers are not streaky, its simply the human mind trying to find patterns in randomness.

This. As long as they are still generating scoring chances while not scoring, I find it hard to call streaky. Streaky in my mind would be a guy who scores in bunches, then completely disappears for a few games in between. 

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3 hours ago, marcaractac said:

This. As long as they are still generating scoring chances while not scoring, I find it hard to call streaky. Streaky in my mind would be a guy who scores in bunches, then completely disappears for a few games in between. 

You speak of Franzen?

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On 2/5/2020 at 4:04 AM, marcaractac said:

Feds got Babcocked when he left Detroit.

Brian Burke said Feds purely just wanted to be in LA and live like a superstar celebrity. Stopped caring about hockey the moment his plane landed there. Which was why he swapped him for Francois Beauchemin the very next season. Said he even kept baby Perry and Getzlaf in the AHL for longer than he wouldve liked to just so they wouldn't have any chance to learn from and hang with a cancerous Fedorov.

It was a blessing disguise that Fedorov left us, and his traitorous 91 will never hang in the rafters so long as I'm s*** posting on the interweb.

13 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

You speak of Franzen?

People: Franzen is streaky and therefore awful
Also people: Goal-scorers are streaky by nature

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5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Brian Burke said Feds purely just wanted to be in LA and live like a superstar celebrity. Stopped caring about hockey the moment his plane landed there. Which was why he swapped him for Francois Beauchemin the very next season. Said he even kept baby Perry and Getzlaf in the AHL for longer than he wouldve liked to just so they wouldn't have any chance to learn from and hang with a cancerous Fedorov.

It was a blessing disguise that Fedorov left us, and his traitorous 91 will never hang in the rafters so long as I'm s*** posting on the interweb.

Burke is a f***ing moron. Also, as far as I know, Fedorov never caused those sorts of problems in Detroit, and he likely never would have under the ownership / management of Ilitch / Holland. We may have won another Cup if Fedorov stuck around...

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7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

People: Franzen is streaky and therefore awful

Also people: Goal-scorers are streaky by nature

I put this whole "Franzen is streaky and therefore awful" thing to bed years ago on LGW.  I'm not going to spend the time digging it up now, but I went through a bunch of seasons and verified that Zetterberg (a guy nobody said was streaky) had just as many goalless droughts (of similarly long durations).  Yet the narrative was always "Franzen is streaky" and never "Zetterberg was streaky".  Leading me to believe that "streakyness" was just a post hoc reason for people to who didn't like Franzen (e.g. Leftwinger) to s*** on him.  If streakyness was indeed the reason for the hate, that hate would have applied equally to Zetterberg...and yet it didn't. 

Sports fans are a notoriously fickle and stupid bunch.  And they'll believe stupid and fickle s*** to validate their even stupider and more fickle viewpoints.  That was basically the story of Franzen.  Any reasonable assessment of Franzen would conclude that for about 4 years he was a VERY good player whose career was then derailed by multiple concussions.  Anything else is stupid...and fickle. 

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