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Jonas Mahonas

Ovechkin to 1,000 Goals?

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Just now, kickazz said:

Troll post.

Ignored.

Not trolling at all. I honestly thought the OP was trolling, but apparently not. I don't agree with the whole premise of the discussion. I guess I should have bowed out of the conversation. Could Ovechkin hit 1000 goals? Sure. But in my opinion, it's so unlikely, it's pointless to discuss. I'm out. Carry on.

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12 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

If you want to place a bet with me, I'll take your money and give you 20-1 odds if you want.

Perfect.  $100 bones.  Payable 1/1/2030.  I will pay pal a neutral to hold it if you want.  Number 9 welched on a 20 dollar bet we made for Howard getting 35 wins in a season.  I want my 2Gs when Ovi hits 895.

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IDK, if the 1000 goal plateau was going to be broken, I think it would have been done during the high scoring 80's era. Even Gretzky finished with only 894 and he played during that era.

Gretzky also played in 208 playoff games in is career to get there.Thru his first 13 seasons in the NHL, Gretzky played in 156 playoff games. Ovie has only played in 97 so far; and while the Caps are good now, how long will that last? Ovie will have to play a lot of playoff hockey to even come close.

Gretzky also had 4 seasons where he scored over 50 goals, 1 over 60, 2 over 70, and 1 over 80 and a ridiculous 92 in '81-'82. Ovie has had 6 seasons at 50 or more, and only one season over 60.

In Ovie's 13 years in the NHL, he has scored 578 goals. After 13 years, Gretzky had 749. Ovie is already 171 behind Gretzky.

I realize the scenario involves Ovie playing until he's 46. I can only think of 2 players in my time that accomplished that feat: Chelios and soon, Jagr. What are the odds Ovechkin does it? Not good. Even Gretzky didn't make it to 40 and he played during a skill era. Guys are just bigger and stronger now. I just don't see him holding up that long.

What works in Ovechkin's favor is that Gretzky's numbers dropped significantly during the end of his career, and I think Ovie plays longer than he did. I also don't think Ovie's numbers drop like Gretzky's did. 

I think best case for Ovechkin is that he plays until 42. During that time he has 2 more seasons of 50+ goals, 2 seasons of 40+ goals, and 5 seasons at 30+ goals before finally retiring.

That would put him at 900+. More than Howe and Gretzky, but still short of 1000. Had Oveckin played during Gretzky's era, than yes. But the defense is better now and so are the goalies.

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8 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

IDK, if the 1000 goal plateau was going to be broken, I think it would have been done during the high scoring 80's era. Even Gretzky finished with only 894 and he played during that era.

Gretzky also played in 208 playoff games in is career to get there.Thru his first 13 seasons in the NHL, Gretzky played in 156 playoff games. Ovie has only played in 97 so far; and while the Caps are good now, how long will that last? Ovie will have to play a lot of playoff hockey to even come close.

Gretzky also had 4 seasons where he scored over 50 goals, 1 over 60, 2 over 70, and 1 over 80 and a ridiculous 92 in '81-'82. Ovie has had 6 seasons at 50 or more, and only one season over 60.

In Ovie's 13 years in the NHL, he has scored 578 goals. After 13 years, Gretzky had 749. Ovie is already 171 behind Gretzky.

I realize the scenario involves Ovie playing until he's 46. I can only think of 2 players in my time that accomplished that feat: Chelios and soon, Jagr. What are the odds Ovechkin does it? Not good. Even Gretzky didn't make it to 40 and he played during a skill era. Guys are just bigger and stronger now. I just don't see him holding up that long.

What works in Ovechkin's favor is that Gretzky's numbers dropped significantly during the end of his career, and I think Ovie plays longer than he did. I also don't think Ovie's numbers drop like Gretzky's did. 

I think best case for Ovechkin is that he plays until 42. During that time he has 2 more seasons of 50+ goals, 2 seasons of 40+ goals, and 5 seasons at 30+ goals before finally retiring.

That would put him at 900+. More than Howe and Gretzky, but still short of 1000. Had Oveckin played during Gretzky's era, than yes. But the defense is better now and so are the goalies.

Just to clarify, goal totals in general don't usually include playoffs, and in this case, Gretzky's 894 goals is only including regular season. If you include playoffs, Gretzky actually did break the 1000 goal plateau, with 1016.

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Techically if we’re just looking at season and overall goals between NHL and WHA (before they combined with NHL), Gordie Howe still holds the goals record, not Gretzky.

Gretzky’s true total is 940 and Howe’s true total is 975. So if Ovie truly wants to be accomplished then 975 is the number to beat. That’s probably not happening.

Edited by kickazz

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On 05/12/2017 at 11:10 AM, krsmith17 said:

Sure, why not... But why stop there? If Ovechkin plays for another 18 years and stays healthy until he's 50, does he hit 1200 goals? 

Who's to say chelios doesn't come back and score 815 goals in 5 seasons to become the first 1000 goal scorer?

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On 12/7/2017 at 6:50 AM, krsmith17 said:

Just to clarify, goal totals in general don't usually include playoffs, and in this case, Gretzky's 894 goals is only including regular season. If you include playoffs, Gretzky actually did break the 1000 goal plateau, with 1016.

No they don't include playoff numbers in career totals or they count them separately in most sports, which is stupid. It's like it doesn't count or something. Regulation or overtime, regular season or playoffs. A goal is a goal.

Anyway the goals listed for Gretzky are regular season and the goals and projections listed for Ovechkin are as well. Sorry for the confusion.

I think Ovie can pass 900 (regular season) and beat Gretzky's 894, but I don't think he reaches the 1000 mark unless you include playoff goals. Which as you pointed out, Gretzky already did.

On 12/7/2017 at 3:46 PM, brett said:

better question is, is he ever going to win a cup?

and how much does he hurt his legacy if he doesnt

I hope he does finally get one. He and Caps fans deserve it. IF it happens, I hope they beat the Pens in the Conference Finals and then the Racist Indian Head Team in the Cup finals to do it.

If he doesn't win a cup, it does hurt his legacy IMO. All the great ones have their names on the Cup. Ovechkin will become the Dan Marino of the NHL. On the bright side, maybe then he'll get to star in an over-the-top comedy headlined by an overacting comedian where he'll be kidnapped for a fictional error he never actually committed.

images.jpg.0b0539a9d6a3f924e5b6669b536791f3.jpg

 

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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If he can do it in the era he’s played/currently plays in, that’s a hell of a feat. Gretzky did it in a high scoring era where goalies aren’t nearly as good as they are now. Stand up style, and smaller stature as well. Leaky D was common too.  Plus he had McSorley and Semenko keeping the flies off him.

Ovie is much stronger, can take hits, dish them out, and has all the scoring skill. Plays in a faster paced era with much better defenders, world class goalies and really has no one watching his back,not that he needs it. 

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4 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

If he can do it in the era he’s played/currently plays in, that’s a hell of a feat. Gretzky did it in a high scoring era where goalies aren’t nearly as good as they are now. Stand up style, and smaller stature as well. Leaky D was common too.  Plus he had McSorley and Semenko keeping the flies off him.

Ovie is much stronger, can take hits, dish them out, and has all the scoring skill. Plays in a faster paced era with much better defenders, world class goalies and really has no one watching his back,not that he needs it. 

Well said.  Ovechkin is Gordie Howe reborn.

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7 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, not even close...

No. Gordie was feared for more than his goal scoring. Best all around player of all time, no doubt. He’d score goals, hit everything in sight, brushed hits off, then fight the oppositions toughest guy and bloody him. He feared no one. Built like a brick s***house and played hard. The epitome of ‘power forward’. Great leader, set an example for every player on the team along with Lindsay, and didn’t tolerate half assing it. 

But I can see what Jonas means by that statement in regards to Ovie’s scoring ability, his build, being able to brush off hits and dish them. He plays hard and fears no one. He doesn’t fight or seems to be a big leader, but He might be the best example of Gordie there currently is (kinda sad), although he’s missing elements of Gordie’s game and leadership.

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2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Sorry, I don't see any similarities between Gordie Howe and Alex Ovechkin, other than they are / were both NHL wingers. I guess if that's the only criteria, Drew Doughty is Nicklas Lidstrom reborn.

Both strong as tanks, power forwards who were/who are consistently putting up high points totals. Play hard with no fear, take hits and give hits. Just saying there are SOME similarities. But that’s as far as it goes. Far from the same type of players, like I said above.

Guys that have the size and talent combination they did/do, play like they did/do, and are consistently putting up high points are rare. Bertuzzi was like that in Vancouver, but only for a short time. 

Bertuzzi may have been more like Gordie in his 40-50 goal Vancouver years because he had a mean streak to go with everything else. Guy was a terror on the ice. Ovie does not.

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While there are some comparables, Ovie is NOT a Howe clone. Ovechkin has had 2 fights in his 13 year career. That's one more than Lidstrom. I think if a guy is going to be another Gordie Howe, he would actually have to perform Gordie Howe Hat Tricks.

Alex Ovechkin Hat Trick: One Even Strength Goal, One Powerplay Goal, One post in same game.

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On 5/12/2017 at 10:17 AM, krsmith17 said:

Not trolling at all. I honestly thought the OP was trolling, but apparently not. I don't agree with the whole premise of the discussion. I guess I should have bowed out of the conversation. Could Ovechkin hit 1000 goals? Sure. But in my opinion, it's so unlikely, it's pointless to discuss. I'm out. Carry on.

DQzfkrlWAAILAjU.jpg

that post disappointed Ovi...

Edited by NerveDamage

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7 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

While there are some comparables, Ovie is NOT a Howe clone. Ovechkin has had 2 fights in his 13 year career. That's one more than Lidstrom. I think if a guy is going to be another Gordie Howe, he would actually have to perform Gordie Howe Hat Tricks.

Alex Ovechkin Hat Trick: One Even Strength Goal, One Powerplay Goal, One post in same game.

Exactly what I said, basically.

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2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

While there are some comparables, Ovie is NOT a Howe clone. Ovechkin has had 2 fights in his 13 year career. That's one more than Lidstrom. I think if a guy is going to be another Gordie Howe, he would actually have to perform Gordie Howe Hat Tricks.

Alex Ovechkin Hat Trick: One Even Strength Goal, One Powerplay Goal, One post in same game.

Interestingly, Gordie earned exactly 1 Gordie Howe hattrick over his entire 32 year career

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