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Jonas Mahonas

Mike Green - worth?

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3 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I'd say Green's value dropped after last night.

For sure.  The empty seats in the arena looked better than he did.  

On 12/12/2017 at 10:50 AM, DickieDunn said:

No.  He's worth more in a trade.  If he really wants to come back and be a part of a rebuild, he can always do that.

We're not rebuilding.  This is just a process.  

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17 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I'd say Green's value dropped after last night.

Why? A player's value doesn't rise or drop from one good or bad shift / game. Green is as advertised; a very good offensive defenseman, that struggles in the defensive zone. Any team that will be trying to acquire him at the trade deadline will know exactly what they're getting. He's also not nearly as bad as some people like to claim he is defensively. All of the subtle plays he makes with the puck, make up for the gaffs without the puck.

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9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Why? A player's value doesn't rise or drop from one good or bad shift / game. Green is as advertised; a very good offensive defenseman, that struggles in the defensive zone. Any team that will be trying to acquire him at the trade deadline will know exactly what they're getting. He's also not nearly as bad as some people like to claim he is defensively. All of the subtle plays he makes with the puck, make up for the gaffs without the puck.

You're right.  He's worse.  We're just not very good at articulating it.  Nobody here is Tolstoy.  

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11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Why? A player's value doesn't rise or drop from one good or bad shift / game. Green is as advertised; a very good offensive defenseman, that struggles in the defensive zone. Any team that will be trying to acquire him at the trade deadline will know exactly what they're getting. He's also not nearly as bad as some people like to claim he is defensively. All of the subtle plays he makes with the puck, make up for the gaffs without the puck.

Its home town bias. People are usually over the top when it comes to assessing their own team/players. Its because they can't remove emotion from their thought process (ie. Green made a mistake last night so I am mad and and going to bash him because it will make me feel better).

I completely agree with you assessment. Green was used perfectly on Washington, he played third pairing (ie. went up against 3rd/4th liners), and played the PP where he excelled. 

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14 minutes ago, kliq said:

Its home town bias. People are usually over the top when it comes to assessing their own team/players. Its because they can't remove emotion from their thought process (ie. Green made a mistake last night so I am mad and and going to bash him because it will make me feel better).

I completely agree with you assessment. Green was used perfectly on Washington, he played third pairing (ie. went up against 3rd/4th liners), and played the PP where he excelled. 

His best years there were too long ago, though.  

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35 minutes ago, kliq said:

Its home town bias. People are usually over the top when it comes to assessing their own team/players. Its because they can't remove emotion from their thought process (ie. Green made a mistake last night so I am mad and and going to bash him because it will make me feel better).

I completely agree with you assessment. Green was used perfectly on Washington, he played third pairing (ie. went up against 3rd/4th liners), and played the PP where he excelled. 

Yeah, Green is playing higher in the lineup than we'd ideally like, but we don't have the same luxury that Washington had to play him on the 3rd pair behind Carlson, Alzner, Niskanen and Orpik. He's no longer a top pair defenseman in this league, but I don't think he's regressed so much that he's a bottom pair defenseman either.

I still think Green is a very good middle pair defenseman. I'd even go as far as to say a solid 2/3 guy. If he had a stud number one to play along side, he'd look great as a number 2, but as a number 3, he still has the ability to carry a number 4 on the 2nd pair.

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Green will get us a 1st if moved. he is worth more than Smith. Hell we sent a 1st to get KFQ at one point.

Come Jan 1, the RW's should be telling everyone in the league that Green, Nyquist, Helm, Neilsson, Mrazek, and Tatar are available. See what we can get for each. We need picks and prospects. Grab as much as we can and free up cap.

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27 minutes ago, Richdg said:

Green will get us a 1st if moved. he is worth more than Smith. Hell we sent a 1st to get KFQ at one point.

Come Jan 1, the RW's should be telling everyone in the league that Green, Nyquist, Helm, Neilsson, Mrazek, and Tatar are available. See what we can get for each. We need picks and prospects. Grab as much as we can and free up cap.

Green is a goner Helm and Nielsen have full NTC and aren't going any where Nyquist to a contender maybe Nashville or St Louis for the right offer not dealing Tatar just yet.

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7 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

His best years there were too long ago, though.  

Agreed as he is no longer a Norris contender, but the guy is still a top offensive D-man. On the right team his weaknesses can be hidden. On Detroit they are exposed as he is playing a bit above what he should (like everyone else).

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I remember when Green was playing his last year in Washington and there was debate over whether the Caps should keep him for the playoffs and lose him for nothing in free agency or trade him at the deadline and get something for him since he was expendable, playing on the 3rd pairing.

I remember how the Caps fans were wanting ridiculous returns for him, arguing how great his offense was, how his defense was underrated, and how he was actually much better than a 3rd pairing defenseman, he was only stuck there because the team was so deep on RH D. (All of which were true.)

Some of them actually believed that Green was going to re-sign with the Caps in free agency to 3rd pair money knowing he was going to continue to be stuck there.  Because playing there for spare change on the 3rd pair was sooo much better than playing anywhere else in the top 4 for more money.

Then when Green signed in Detroit for more money and more ice time, those same fans were talking about how stupid Holland was and how overrated Green was, that his defense was atrocious and that's why he was on the 3rd pairing. Suddenly he was nothing more than a defensively liable powerplay specialist.

Truth is, Green is top pairing on this team because there is nothing better. Even on a contending team, he is still a solid 2nd pair. He is RH, good offensively, good on the powerplay, and decent defensively. There will be demand for his services come trade deadline. There is a GM of playoff team who will give up their first for him. It only takes one. And there will be.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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3 hours ago, LoveMyRedWings56 said:

Green is a goner Helm and Nielsen have full NTC and aren't going any where Nyquist to a contender maybe Nashville or St Louis for the right offer not dealing Tatar just yet.

We have until the end of this season to trade him. Tatar's NTC starts July 1st or whatever the date is that offically starts the 2018/2019 season. Move him now while it is much easier.

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On 12/13/2017 at 5:00 PM, krsmith17 said:

Why not? Most players moved at the deadline are rentals. Very rarely do you see players extended in that scenario, and I would think most teams would prefer it that way. Come help us with a run in the playoffs, if things work out well for both sides, we can discuss an extension in the summer.

Shattenkirk, while admittedly a slightly better and younger player than Green at this stage of their careers, was traded from St. Louis to Washington purely as a rental (was not re-signed). He was traded for a 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, conditional pick, and two mediocre prospects. If Shattenkirk can garner all of that, I'd think Green could garner a late 1st / early 2nd...

Minor correction:

The return for Shattenkirk was a 1st + a conditional pick (which was not excercized) + Zack Sanford. Phoenix Copley for Brad Malone was a separate deal. 

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5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Green is honestly such a moot subject.

If we keep him: Awesome we have our best defensive piece locked up

If we lose him: Awesome we sold our most trade-able piece.

It's honestly only about return. If Ken gets weak sauce for him feel free to tantrum and s***.

I disagree with this. Green should be traded to the highest bidder regardless how big or small the return, with the understanding that we'd love nothing more than for him to win a Cup (unless it's with Toronto), and we're interested in possibly re-signing him in the offseason if he's interested. If he gets us a 1st, awesome. If he gets us a 3rd and s*** prospect, you still do it. I think he'll get us a 2nd, plus, at the bare minimum...

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20 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I disagree with this. Green should be traded to the highest bidder regardless how big or small the return, with the understanding that we'd love nothing more than for him to win a Cup (unless it's with Toronto), and we're interested in possibly re-signing him in the offseason if he's interested. If he gets us a 1st, awesome. If he gets us a 3rd and s*** prospect, you still do it. I think he'll get us a 2nd, plus, at the bare minimum...

Green to Toronto for future considerations. That's cool with you?

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3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Green to Toronto for future considerations. That's cool with you?

C'mon man, there's a zero percent chance that would be the highest bid... Worst case scenario would be a 3rd round pick, and yes I'd take that. I still think we'll get a late 1st or close to it though. Brendan Smith got us a 2nd and a 3rd for f**** sake...

Edited by krsmith17

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

C'mon man, there's a zero percent chance that would be the highest bid... Worst case scenario would be a 3rd round pick, and yes I'd take that. I still think we'll get a late 1st or close to it though. Brendan Smith got us a 2nd and a 3rd for f**** sake...

You said regardless of return, not me. At some point return matters.

Yeah but Smith was a top4 puck moving Dman... Green might never reach that level

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54 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You said regardless of return, not me. At some point return matters.

Yeah but Smith was a top4 puck moving Dman... Green might never reach that level

Well, no s***. Regardless of *realistic* return. That better?

6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

1st round or nothing. We won't get a deal with a bottom dweller, so a 2nd is not good enough considering it'd be a very low 2nd.

Not good enough? So if the Leafs (or any playoff team) offers us a 2nd rounder, and that's the best offer, you'd turn it down???

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10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Well, no s***. Regardless of *realistic* return. That better?

Not good enough? So if the Leafs (or any playoff team) offers us a 2nd rounder, and that's the best offer, you'd turn it down???

Better? I guess. You havent defined what realistic is... As you can see already, realistic return is different to you and Lefty.

You said we should at least get a 3rd? Does that mean you wouldnt accept a 4th or lower?

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1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Better? I guess. You havent defined what realistic is... As you can see already, realistic return is different to you and Lefty.

You said we should at least get a 3rd? Does that mean you wouldnt accept a 4th or lower?

A realistic expectation on a return for Green should be anything from a 1st or 2nd, or some sort of equivalent. A 3rd is a lowball offer, and there will be a team that will offer more than that. Why even talk about the possibility of a 4th or a conditional 7th?... It's not going to happen.

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