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Jonas Mahonas

Mike Green - worth?

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10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

A realistic expectation on a return for Green should be anything from a 1st or 2nd, or some sort of equivalent. A 3rd is a lowball offer, and there will be a team that will offer more than that. Why even talk about the possibility of a 4th or a conditional 7th?... It's not going to happen.

I agree with you. But if you get offered only a 4th do you take it?

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21 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I agree with you. But if you get offered only a 4th do you take it?

Sure. However for Green to fall to 3+ rounds would involve him in a rape case raised just before the trading window begins.

Your logic intrigues me, so I am willing to offer you a wager, if you agree:

If Green is dealt, and the return is a pick round 1-3 I shall recieve 100 dollars from you.

If Green is dealt, and the return is a pick round 4+ you shall recieve 2500 dollars from me. Or a thousand bucks and a years silence on this forum.

Agreed?

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At the end of the deadline, you have to take the best offer on the table. Unless Holland plans to re-sign him, but it’s not prudent. Moving him opens up a good chunk of cap for the rebuild. I want to see this team go into next season with a decent amount of open cap too. No free agents. 

I think there will be a bidding war on him. Hopefully get a 1st or 2nd, but if the highest offer is lower, you still gotta take it. But I can’t see it being that low.

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12 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

At the end of the deadline, you have to take the best offer on the table. Unless Holland plans to re-sign him, but it’s not prudent. Moving him opens up a good chunk of cap for the rebuild. I want to see this team go into next season with a decent amount of open cap too. No free agents. 

I think there will be a bidding war on him. Hopefully get a 1st or 2nd, but if the highest offer is lower, you still gotta take it. But I can’t see it being that low.

I would think that the floor is 2nd rounder, ceiling is 1st rounder.

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3 hours ago, kliq said:

I would think that the floor is 2nd rounder, ceiling is 1st rounder.

I agree. There will be enough interest that Holland will get his asking price.

Just saying that on the off chance he doesn’t, he can’t refuse the best offer just because. Many expected Vanek to fetch more than he did, but Holland had to wait down to the wire and take what he could get. 

Not saying Green isn’t a more valuable asset. Just an example of how the deadline can be unpredictable sometimes.

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22 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I agree. There will be enough interest that Holland will get his asking price.

Just saying that on the off chance he doesn’t, he can’t refuse the best offer just because. Many expected Vanek to fetch more than he did, but Holland had to wait down to the wire and take what he could get. 

Not saying Green isn’t a more valuable asset. Just an example of how the deadline can be unpredictable sometimes.

Agreed

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12 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes. Please ask me if I'd take a 5th...

Would you take a 5th?

12 hours ago, Jacksoni said:

Sure. However for Green to fall to 3+ rounds would involve him in a rape case raised just before the trading window begins.

Your logic intrigues me, so I am willing to offer you a wager, if you agree:

If Green is dealt, and the return is a pick round 1-3 I shall recieve 100 dollars from you.

If Green is dealt, and the return is a pick round 4+ you shall recieve 2500 dollars from me. Or a thousand bucks and a years silence on this forum.

Agreed?

Lol NOT AGREED. Smitty originally said you take the best trade regardless of return. To his credit, he meant like a 3rd at the lowest. I just want to know where the threshold is. When does he become not worth moving to you? Is it a 5th? a 6th? Lower?

I'd personally consider anything lower than a late 2nd an insult. Would just keep him at that point. Maybe a super high 3rd would sway me... maybe.

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4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Would you take a 5th?

Lol NOT AGREED. Smitty originally said you take the best trade regardless of return. To his credit, he meant like a 3rd at the lowest. I just want to know where the threshold is. When does he become not worth moving to you? Is it a 5th? a 6th? Lower?

I'd personally consider anything lower than a late 2nd an insult. Would just keep him at that point. Maybe a super high 3rd would sway me... maybe.

I agree, anything below a 2nd would be an insult. Some team will offer at least a 2nd though, I'm not worried about that. I'd even say, if we're not getting a 1st, it better be multiple pieces coming our way. I either want a team's 1st round pick, or a 2nd plus another 2nd or 3rd or prospect(s).

I know it would never happen, but I'd love to be able to convince a team like Tampa or Toronto to trade us Foote or Liljegren... I'd give up Green plus for either of those guys.

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So some of you would rather hang on to Green if the offer was half assed (which it won’t be but weird thing do happen) and have him walk July 1 instead of getting something for him? Why? Cause it’s insulting? That’s not really a good enough reason for Holland to be a dick about the situation. “You can’t have him cause the offer insults me, so i’ll keep him instead of adding an other pick and when he hits the market July 1 you can take a shot at him.” Hahaha no.

You grab the pick(s), because I highly doubt he resigns in Detroit with the team in the situation they’re in, even if there was an offer, which there shouldn’t be. He will want just as much money, and i’m sure winning a Cup is high on his list. Maybe if the roster wasn’t full of so much dead weight, he could be resigned. But it is. The contracts Holland has handed out to vets have kept younger guys from moving up, and shedding $6 million per is pretty much a must do. Too bad it couldn’t be Errorsson or Kronwall’s contracts expiring instead, but it’s Green’s. How she goes.Time to embrace the true rebuild. Every vet contract that is expiring, you let it expire.

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21 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

So some of you would rather hang on to Green if the offer was half assed (which it won’t be but weird thing do happen) and have him walk July 1 instead of getting something for him? Why? Cause it’s insulting? That’s not really a good enough reason for Holland to be a dick about the situation. “You can’t have him cause the offer insults me, so i’ll keep him instead of adding an other pick and when he hits the market July 1 you can take a shot at him.” Hahaha no.

You grab the pick(s), because I highly doubt he resigns in Detroit with the team in the situation they’re in, even if there was an offer, which there shouldn’t be. He will want just as much money, and i’m sure winning a Cup is high on his list. Maybe if the roster wasn’t full of so much dead weight, he could be resigned. But it is. The contracts Holland has handed out to vets have kept younger guys from moving up, and shedding $6 million per is pretty much a must do. Too bad it couldn’t be Errorsson or Kronwall’s contracts expiring instead, but it’s Green’s. How she goes.Time to embrace the true rebuild. Every vet contract that is expiring, you let it expire.

I agree to a degree. While you want to get the best offer available, you dont want to appear to be a team that is pushed around easily either.

For example, it will never happen but hypothetically if the best we were offered was a 6th rounder, you walk away. To take a 6th for Green would make you look extremely weak, and teams would pounce on that later. I would trade him for only a 3rd or higher.

This is all a moot point anyways though because he likely goes for a 1st or a combination of 2nd & 3rd's

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On 12/20/2017 at 1:30 PM, krsmith17 said:

Well, no s***. Regardless of *realistic* return. That better?

Not good enough? So if the Leafs (or any playoff team) offers us a 2nd rounder, and that's the best offer, you'd turn it down???

If Vegas is in the hunt and wanted him, I'd take a 3rd and Nic Hague. :ninja:

 

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6 hours ago, kliq said:

I agree to a degree. While you want to get the best offer available, you dont want to appear to be a team that is pushed around easily either.

For example, it will never happen but hypothetically if the best we were offered was a 6th rounder, you walk away. To take a 6th for Green would make you look extremely weak, and teams would pounce on that later. I would trade him for only a 3rd or higher.

This is all a moot point anyways though because he likely goes for a 1st or a combination of 2nd & 3rd's

Yeah if it’s a 6th, that team can f*** off for sure. Haha

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13 hours ago, chaps80 said:

So some of you would rather hang on to Green if the offer was half assed (which it won’t be but weird thing do happen) and have him walk July 1 instead of getting something for him? Why? Cause it’s insulting? That’s not really a good enough reason for Holland to be a dick about the situation. “You can’t have him cause the offer insults me, so i’ll keep him instead of adding an other pick and when he hits the market July 1 you can take a shot at him.” Hahaha no.

You grab the pick(s), because I highly doubt he resigns in Detroit with the team in the situation they’re in, even if there was an offer, which there shouldn’t be. He will want just as much money, and i’m sure winning a Cup is high on his list. Maybe if the roster wasn’t full of so much dead weight, he could be resigned. But it is. The contracts Holland has handed out to vets have kept younger guys from moving up, and shedding $6 million per is pretty much a must do. Too bad it couldn’t be Errorsson or Kronwall’s contracts expiring instead, but it’s Green’s. How she goes.Time to embrace the true rebuild. Every vet contract that is expiring, you let it expire.

 

6 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Yeah if it’s a 6th, that team can f*** off for sure. Haha

I'm confused. You argue for taking the best offer regardless of value, but then say lol F the team who offers a 6th. Which is it?

What percentage of 6th rounders become NHLers? Its not high. At some point it becomes more valuable to hang on to Green for a variety of reasons. Surprised this is hotly debated honestly. 

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

I'm confused. You argue for taking the best offer regardless of value, but then say lol F the team who offers a 6th. Which is it?

What percentage of 6th rounders become NHLers? Its not high. At some point it becomes more valuable to hang on to Green for a variety of reasons. Surprised this is hotly debated honestly. 

Only if he's going to re-sign here.  A 6th, or even a 7th, a the deadline is better than nothing if he walks if free agency

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23 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Only if he's going to re-sign here.  A 6th, or even a 7th, a the deadline is better than nothing if he walks if free agency

Are you thick? You can trade his rights for a 6th on draft day. But in the end who cares anyway? A 6 almost never pans out. It's worth saving the reputation and holding on to, instead of bending over and taking it from another team.

I dunno how much real business experience you have,  but it's not all paper and numbers. The majority is positioning, politics, and personality. You nerds always seem to willfully ignore real world implications.

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14 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Are you thick? You can trade his rights for a 6th on draft day. But in the end who cares anyway? A 6 almost never pans out. It's worth saving the reputation and holding on to, instead of bending over and taking it from another team.

I dunno how much real business experience you have,  but it's not all paper and numbers. The majority is positioning, politics, and personality. You nerds always seem to willfully ignore real world implications.

Does it matter if they get a 6th a the deadline or if they get it at the draft?  A 6th rounder is a 6th rounder.  If anything, trading him sooner improves their draft odds.

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On 20/12/2017 at 3:39 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I agree with you. But if you get offered only a 4th do you take it?

I certainly wouldn't. With such a low ball offer, I try to re-sign him for a year or two. Try again next year. Anything less than a 2nd should be a no go. Even that would be getting ripped off. I'm confident in saying Green is worth a late first or a couple of seconds to a contender.

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8 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

And then if he's going to leave, which I think is likely, trade his rights for a 6th.  So does it matter when you get the 6th?

This is stupid af.

If they aren't getting much for him you resign him and try to flip him the following year. Not like this guy is Brenden Smith. Having him around could be beneficial for any D that come thru, Green's an excellent defenseman.

Only problem would be our cap. But since they are raising the cap by a good amount, it may be fine. 

 

Edited by kickazz

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