Why no Mantha on the PK?

[Richdg 267]

I think most if not all of us agree that Mantha, Larkin, and AA are our future and tbh our present. In todays game where there are so many penalties, why isn't he being used on the PK? With his height and reach he breaks up a ton of passes and shots. Its not like he is slow either. Get him on the ice! Let him learn to become a good penalty killer while we stink. It isn't going to hurt us. Play the young studs Blashill! In all situations! If that is how he needs to be used to get him 20 mins per game then do it! Might add a few more short handed goals.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Because he's not good there, and they have guys like Helm to do that.  Let Mantha save his energy for scoring.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Larkin, Nielsen, Helm and Glendening are all really good PKers so we use them. When one of them is in the box or injured, Abby's the next best option.

Mantha's getting better on the defensive side of thing, but that's not his strength - don't know why you think he should be on the PK.

[kickazz 5,459]

There are a few reasons to have a forward on the PK. One if he's good, two if he's fast, and three if he's a centerman.

Mantha is neither of those things. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Fixed.

Agreed. That's probably why Miller was on that thing. 

[brett 1,029]

why no mantha in the last minute of game when a goal is needed?

[Richdg 267]

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he is a good penalty killer. But since he is NEVER used on the PK we don't know what he can/can not do either. But today he was 9th amoung the F's in ice time. AA had even less. Both should be getting 20+. If that means PP, 5 on 5, or PK, give it to them. That is how young players learn and develop. Not by sitting on the bench listening to the coach pretend to be Babcock.

The fact he never saw the ice the last 90 seconds in a game where we trail by 1 goal is 100% on our piss poor coaching. Lets not put our best scorer out there and hope no knees Kronwall and hands of stone Abby and alwqays knocked to the ice Nyquist can get it done. The end of the game should have been Mantha, Larkin, AA, Z and Green. Our 5 best offensive threats/fastest players. One can make an arguement that Tatar over AA but that is it.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Richdg said:

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he is a good penalty killer. But since he is NEVER used on the PK we don't know what he can/can not do either. But today he was 9th amoung the F's in ice time. AA had even less. Both should be getting 20+. If that means PP, 5 on 5, or PK, give it to them. That is how young players learn and develop. Not by sitting on the bench listening to the coach pretend to be Babcock.

The fact he never saw the ice the last 90 seconds in a game where we trail by 1 goal is 100% on our piss poor coaching. Lets not put our best scorer out there and hope no knees Kronwall and hands of stone Abby and alwqays knocked to the ice Nyquist can get it done. The end of the game should have been Mantha, Larkin, AA, Z and Green. Our 5 best offensive threats/fastest players. One can make an arguement that Tatar over AA but that is it.

You don't know that. Maybe Blashill has tried him on the PK during training camp/ practices to see how he does and he might have not been good at it. We don't know about the ins and outs of what goes on behind the scenes. If anyone has played a team sport here then we should all know that coaches try tons of combos and ideas during practices and based off what they feel about players act upon it during the game. Team practice is the best place to see players strengths and weaknesses and roles. 

It's easier to assume things from your seat at home when you have no idea about what goes on in these players/coaches environment behind the scenes. 

As far as the last 90 seconds, I agree with you, I would have put Mantha out there.

Edited December 24, 2017 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

4 hours ago, brett said:

why no mantha in the last minute of game when a goal is needed?

Da Process and the Swedish Mafia

[Richdg 267]

2 hours ago, kickazz said:

You don't know that. Maybe Blashill has tried him on the PK during training camp/ practices to see how he does and he might have not been good at it. We don't know about the ins and outs of what goes on behind the scenes. If anyone has played a team sport here then we should all know that coaches try tons of combos and ideas during practices and based off what they feel about players act upon it during the game. Team practice is the best place to see players strengths and weaknesses and roles. 

It's easier to assume things from your seat at home when you have no idea about what goes on in these players/coaches environment behind the scenes. 

As far as the last 90 seconds, I agree with you, I would have put Mantha out there.

No we dont know what happens in practice. But as a former player and coach in many different sports I also know that no practice can be the same as game conditions. You simply can't do it. There are practice players-guys that are great monday through friday and suck on sunday to use a football term, and gamers-the guys that hate practice yet show up every game. Lil bert is a PO monster in the AHL. he produces as many points in the PO's as he does in the entire regular season. Why? No one knows. But it does point to what I am talking about. Until player X is put into game situations-multiple times, you have no idea on how they will perform. Good or bad.

But again I ask the question. What do we have to lose? Nothing.

No all PKers are not C's. Some are not even fast. Z was a great PKer and has never been a fast guy. Well Mantha is fast, maybe the 4th fastest F we have after the 3 speed guys. His size takes up a ton of space and he plays good D overall.

BTW I am just as upset about the way AA is being used or should I say misused.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Richdg

[DickieDunn 2,571]

2 minutes ago, Richdg said:

No we dont know what happens in practice. But as a former player and coach in many different sports I also know that no practice can be the same as game conditions. You simply can't do it. There are practice players-guys that are great monday through friday and suck on sunday to use a football term, and gamers-the guys that hate practice yet show up every game. Lil bert is a PO monster in the AHL. he produces as many points in the PO's as he does in the entire regular season. Why? No one knows. But it does point to what I am talking about. Until player X is put into game situations-multiple times, you have no idea on how they will perform. Good or bad.

While that's true, there's still no good reason to play Mantha on the PK when there are several other forwards capable of doing it, while the number of  players who can do what he CAN do is limited.  Save him for the PP and even strength, offensive or neutral zone starts.  Not every player is capable of playing 20 minutes a night.  There are only 20 forwards who are averaging that this year, all of them are better than Mantha, and most of them are centers.

[kickazz 5,459]

9 hours ago, Richdg said:

No we dont know what happens in practice. But as a former player and coach in many different sports I also know that no practice can be the same as game conditions. You simply can't do it. There are practice players-guys that are great monday through friday and suck on sunday to use a football term, and gamers-the guys that hate practice yet show up every game. Lil bert is a PO monster in the AHL. he produces as many points in the PO's as he does in the entire regular season. Why? No one knows. But it does point to what I am talking about. Until player X is put into game situations-multiple times, you have no idea on how they will perform. Good or bad.

But again I ask the question. What do we have to lose? Nothing.

No all PKers are not C's. Some are not even fast. Z was a great PKer and has never been a fast guy. Well Mantha is fast, maybe the 4th fastest F we have after the 3 speed guys. His size takes up a ton of space and he plays good D overall.

BTW I am just as upset about the way AA is being used or should I say misused.

Sure, but this isn't amateur hockey. You either give 100% in practice and earn your spot and play-time or you get scratched or lose ice-time. You really think Blashill is going to put in Mantha with the mentality of "Well you're terrible at the PK during practice but MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, you might be good during a game" ? These coaches and players are pros, the job description comes with at least some form of rationality. 

Anyways, what the hell is the point of putting Mantha on PK? I doubt he's even remotely interested in it. He's a goal scorer and for the most part he's being utilized as one. Would you rather have Blash tell him to be on PK, focus on his 200 foot game and ultimately reduce his 5 on 5 time? I guarantee you, you'd just end up bitching about it 5 months from now.  For the first time since Bowman era this franchise is actually letting a goal scorer be an actual goal scorer... Just be happy with it.. 

Anyways, all the other PKers we have are better at it than Mantha is. Larkin, Helm, Glendening, Nielsen, Abdelkader. And if for some reason none of those guys can't to go then my next option would be AA... not Mantha. 

Hell if for some weird reason if none of those 5 nor AA can go then you put Zetterberg in to kill the penalty. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by kickazz

[Jacksoni 418]

2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Anyways, what the hell is the point of putting Mantha on PK?

None. It is not his strong point. On top of that he's big, equating to heavy. He is not ideal on the rush and the PK would sap his strength for what he is needed.

I would surmise, and would be willing to bet if he by some miracle was to play PK extensively, that his numbers would fall in almost direct correlation to the amount of time on the penalty kill.
Any takers?

[kickazz 5,459]

9 hours ago, Richdg said:

No all PKers are not C's. Some are not even fast. Z was a great PKer and has never been a fast guy. Well Mantha is fast, maybe the 4th fastest F we have after the 3 speed guys. His size takes up a ton of space and he plays good D overall.

 

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying he's neither of those 3 things. Not a center, not as good defensively (compared to his teammates like Larkin, Nielsen, Glend, Helm etc). And in terms of speed AA, Helm, Larkin are the fastest. I'd put Nyquist in 4th and Mantha/Abby/Tatar are probably around the same speed.  

[Richdg 267]

3 hours ago, kickazz said:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying he's neither of those 3 things. Not a center, not as good defensively (compared to his teammates like Larkin, Nielsen, Glend, Helm etc). And in terms of speed AA, Helm, Larkin are the fastest. I'd put Nyquist in 4th and Mantha/Abby/Tatar are probably around the same speed.  

In a full lap around the rink Mantha blows Nyquist away. Not even close. Nyquist does have better agility in traffic.

[Richdg 267]

3 hours ago, kickazz said:

Sure, but this isn't amateur hockey. You either give 100% in practice and earn your spot and play-time or you get scratched or lose ice-time. You really think Blashill is going to put in Mantha with the mentality of "Well you're terrible at the PK during practice but MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, you might be good during a game" ? These coaches and players are pros, the job description comes with at least some form of rationality. 

Anyways, what the hell is the point of putting Mantha on PK? I doubt he's even remotely interested in it. He's a goal scorer and for the most part he's being utilized as one. Would you rather have Blash tell him to be on PK, focus on his 200 foot game and ultimately reduce his 5 on 5 time? I guarantee you, you'd just end up bitching about it 5 months from now.  For the first time since Bowman era this franchise is actually letting a goal scorer be an actual goal scorer... Just be happy with it.. 

Anyways, all the other PKers we have are better at it than Mantha is. Larkin, Helm, Glendening, Nielsen, Abdelkader. And if for some reason none of those guys can't to go then my next option would be AA... not Mantha. 

Hell if for some weird reason if none of those 5 nor AA can go then you put Zetterberg in to kill the penalty. 

The HoF's in all sports are FILLED with guys that hated practice, came to practice drunk, skipped practice, brought pillows to practice, etc.... Now we have no idea of who is working or not working at it.

Giving Mantha 14 mins per game vs Tatar 18, Abby 18, Helm 18, and so on is not using your talent properly. It is wasting it. In this day with so many penalties being called, stars almost have to play special teams to get the minutes they need. Again, nothing to lose.

As for Blashill, LOL!!!!! He is still trying to win and thinks that playing old, broken down, expensive players is the way to do it. Last game Mantha had 14 mins of ice time and AA had 8. Think about that. Both of those guys should be 20 mins. There is 0 justification for less. None. Zip. Nada. That is 100% piss poor coaching.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

33 minutes ago, Richdg said:

The HoF's in all sports are FILLED with guys that hated practice, came to practice drunk, skipped practice, brought pillows to practice, etc.... Now we have no idea of who is working or not working at it.

Giving Mantha 14 mins per game vs Tatar 18, Abby 18, Helm 18, and so on is not using your talent properly. It is wasting it. In this day with so many penalties being called, stars almost have to play special teams to get the minutes they need. Again, nothing to lose.

As for Blashill, LOL!!!!! He is still trying to win and thinks that playing old, broken down, expensive players is the way to do it. Last game Mantha had 14 mins of ice time and AA had 8. Think about that. Both of those guys should be 20 mins. There is 0 justification for less. None. Zip. Nada. That is 100% piss poor coaching.

 

What are you talking about? There are only 20 forwards in the entire league that average 20min/night. Mostly superstars. 

Once again, an issue you're so passionate about yet know nothing about. Maybe do some research first before you act like you know better.

 

[kliq 3,755]

19 minutes ago, Son of a Wing said:

 

What are you talking about? There are only 20 forwards in the entire league that average 20min/night. Mostly superstars. 

Once again, an issue you're so passionate about yet know nothing about. Maybe do some research first before you act like you know better.

 

He makes stats up in an attempt to make his points.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Richdg said:

The HoF's in all sports are FILLED with guys that hated practice, came to practice drunk, skipped practice, brought pillows to practice, etc.... Now we have no idea of who is working or not working at it.

Giving Mantha 14 mins per game vs Tatar 18, Abby 18, Helm 18, and so on is not using your talent properly. It is wasting it. In this day with so many penalties being called, stars almost have to play special teams to get the minutes they need. Again, nothing to lose.

As for Blashill, LOL!!!!! He is still trying to win and thinks that playing old, broken down, expensive players is the way to do it. Last game Mantha had 14 mins of ice time and AA had 8. Think about that. Both of those guys should be 20 mins. There is 0 justification for less. None. Zip. Nada. That is 100% piss poor coaching.

You're blinded by your creepy love for Mantha. Larkin is earning 20 minutes per game and neither Mantha nor AA are earning it. So your whole "Blashill is playing old broken down players" statement is false. The only older forward who plays a lot of minutes is Zetterberg. Otherwise Larkin, Nyquist and Tatar lead the forwards in ice time. 

You need to fact check yourself Rich. 

1 hour ago, Richdg said:

In a full lap around the rink Mantha blows Nyquist away. Not even close. Nyquist does have better agility in traffic.

 As far as I can tell from what we see on TV and in the arena, Nyquist is quicker than Mantha. And even if I can't prove it with a video or a speed test, it makes sense based off his center of gravity and weight. Until then you don't really have much to prove on your end. 

I'm glad Mantha isn't on the PK. Last thing we need is him losing 5 on 5 time because Richdg came up with a "coaching" strategy.  

Edited December 24, 2017 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Richdg said:

The HoF's in all sports are FILLED with guys that hated practice, came to practice drunk, skipped practice, brought pillows to practice, etc.... Now we have no idea of who is working or not working at it.

Giving Mantha 14 mins per game vs Tatar 18, Abby 18, Helm 18, and so on is not using your talent properly. It is wasting it. In this day with so many penalties being called, stars almost have to play special teams to get the minutes they need. Again, nothing to lose.

As for Blashill, LOL!!!!! He is still trying to win and thinks that playing old, broken down, expensive players is the way to do it. Last game Mantha had 14 mins of ice time and AA had 8. Think about that. Both of those guys should be 20 mins. There is 0 justification for less. None. Zip. Nada. That is 100% piss poor coaching.

Mantha is averaging 17 minutes a game this season. Where are you cooking up this crap from? Like 1-2 games? Look at the overall season. There's still more games to play. 

[kliq 3,755]

6 hours ago, kickazz said:

Mantha is averaging 17 minutes a game this season. Where are you cooking up this crap from? Like 1-2 games? Look at the overall season. There's still more games to play. 

I'm not joking, he literally makes up stats to try to prove his points

[ami 273]

On 12/24/2017 at 1:30 PM, kickazz said:

Mantha is averaging 17 minutes a game this season.

but it feels like it's less than 5. he's effort, I mean...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

And why no Booth on the PP?

Hes been there b4 when he was a force in Florida. And he brings a lot of energy with him to the ice (something our PP desperately needs). In Florida he was averaging about 16 min a night on the PP!

Have I played a lot of sports? Yes. Have I coached a lot of sports? Yes. Are Dehaan and Cole a thing? No.

But one thing ive learned is some players are good at practice and some guys are good on the PP. Are we gonna win the cup this year? No. So should we instead be using this time to experiment with David Booth on the PP? Yes. Booth has flirted with 30 PP goals in a season before. Why wont blashill try him there, too busy dressing up in suits JUST LIKE MIKE BABCOCK???? Yes.

Booth could show these kids a thing or two about how to conduct yourself in this league. Have you seen he even wears his wedding ring under his glove during games? Yes. What a class act. Hope that rubs off on the kids. I wonder what his wife thinks too. Shes so lucky. That cheesey smile. That long beach boy haircut. That Detroit swagger. Those big strong yet gentle arms... OMG just play on my PP David, ill be forever yours.

Edited December 27, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

And why no Booth on the PP?

Hes been there b4 when he was a force in Florida. And he brings a lot of energy with him to the ice (something our PP desperately needs). In Florida he was averaging about 16 min a night on the PP!

Have I played a lot of sports? Yes. Have I coached a lot of sports? Yes. Are Dehaan and Cole a thing? No.

But one thing ive learned is some players are good at practice and some guys are good on the PP. Are we gonna win the cup this year? No. So should we instead be using this time to experiment with David Booth on the PP? Yes. Booth has flirted with 30 PP goals in a season before. Why wont blashill try him there, too busy dressing up in suits JUST LIKE MIKE BABCOCK???? Yes.

Booth could show these kids a thing or two about how to conduct yourself in this league. Have you seen he even wears his wedding ring under his glove during games? Yes. What a class act. Hope that rubs off on the kids. I wonder what his wife thinks too. Shes so lucky. That cheesey smile. That long beach boy haircut. That Detroit swagger. Those big strong yet gentle arms... OMG just play on my PP David, ill be forever yours.

 @kliq what I tell you 

Edited December 27, 2017 by kickazz

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

18 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

And why no Booth on the PP?

Hes been there b4 when he was a force in Florida. And he brings a lot of energy with him to the ice (something our PP desperately needs). In Florida he was averaging about 16 min a night on the PP!

Have I played a lot of sports? Yes. Have I coached a lot of sports? Yes. Are Dehaan and Cole a thing? No.

But one thing ive learned is some players are good at practice and some guys are good on the PP. Are we gonna win the cup this year? No. So should we instead be using this time to experiment with David Booth on the PP? Yes. Booth has flirted with 30 PP goals in a season before. Why wont blashill try him there, too busy dressing up in suits JUST LIKE MIKE BABCOCK???? Yes.

Booth could show these kids a thing or two about how to conduct yourself in this league. Have you seen he even wears his wedding ring under his glove during games? Yes. What a class act. Hope that rubs off on the kids. I wonder what his wife thinks too. Shes so lucky. That cheesey smile. That long beach boy haircut. That Detroit swagger. Those big strong yet gentle arms... OMG just play on my PP David, ill be forever yours.