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Richdg

Why no Mantha on the PK?

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Mantha isn't on the PK and shouldn't be on the PK because there are at least 4 other forwards on the roster who are more suited for it.

The best analogy I can think of is the mid 90's Lions. Barry Sanders is the best RB to ever play the game. He was certainly better than Mel Gray. Despite that, the Lions didn't use Sanders as a kick returner, that's what they had Mel Gray for. Could you imagine the uproar if the Lions threw Sanders out there on a kick return and he suffered a catastrophic injury? That's why you have special teams guys. The PK is basically a special team. That's why you have guys like Helm, Miller, Glendening, etc. You don't put Mantha out there.

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49 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Mantha isn't on the PK and shouldn't be on the PK because there are at least 4 other forwards on the roster who are more suited for it.

The best analogy I can think of is the mid 90's Lions. Barry Sanders is the best RB to ever play the game. He was certainly better than Mel Gray. Despite that, the Lions didn't use Sanders as a kick returner, that's what they had Mel Gray for. Could you imagine the uproar if the Lions threw Sanders out there on a kick return and he suffered a catastrophic injury? That's why you have special teams guys. The PK is basically a special team. That's why you have guys like Helm, Miller, Glendening, etc. You don't put Mantha out there.

I agree that Mantha shouldn't be used in a penalty killing role. Like so many have already mentioned, he needs to save his energy for the offensive zone (even strength / power-play). However, I don't think that just the grinder type players (Helm, Miller, Glendening, etc.) should be used on the penalty kill and skilled players shouldn't. Larkin has been arguably our best penalty killer, and in the same way, I believe Athanasiou would be a very good penalty killer. If this thread were called "Why no Athanasiou on the PK?", I'd probably agree. Mantha, not so much.

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2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree that Mantha shouldn't be used in a penalty killing role. Like so many have already mentioned, he needs to save his energy for the offensive zone (even strength / power-play). However, I don't think that just the grinder type players (Helm, Miller, Glendening, etc.) should be used on the penalty kill and skilled players shouldn't. Larkin has been arguably our best penalty killer, and in the same way, I believe Athanasiou would be a very good penalty killer. If this thread were called "Why no Athanasiou on the PK?", I'd probably agree. Mantha, not so much.

Im fine with Larkin/AA on the PK. Theyre young just like Dats/Z back in the day.

But i think the goal is to find competent PKers who can take those duties away from those players, so those players can focus on more offensive duties. Z and Dats had Hull, Yzerman, etc ahead of them. Larkin and AA dont. In fact they have the opposite, a team loaded with more middle teir players. Players that can already take those PK duties. 

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Im fine with Larkin/AA on the PK. Theyre young just like Dats/Z back in the day.

But i think the goal is to find competent PKers who can take those duties away from those players, so those players can focus on more offensive duties. Z and Dats had Hull, Yzerman, etc ahead of them. Larkin and AA dont. In fact they have the opposite, a team loaded with more middle teir players. Players that can already take those PK duties. 

Do I think Larkin is a good PKer? Yes. Does it look like he needs more help? Yes. Would AA be the right man for the job? He could be. Does that mean Mantha could help out too? No. So what can Mantha do then? Spend more time with his gf. Would she appreciate that? Yes. Would I spend time with Mantha’s gf? Yes. His gf gave me some statistics that Zetterberg’s son Love is top 5 from MULTIPLE sources for 2033 draft. Now does this mean we should draft him? Yes. How would @Euro_Twins feel about that? Good. Why? Because he wants the son of Zetterberg and the son of Datsyuk to play together and be drafted as the new Euro Twins. Does that mean it’s going to happen? No. Does @kliq want this to happen? Yes. Would he want to fight Bret The Hitman Hart? No. Does that mean @Jonas Mahonas is in love with me? Probably. Does this mean @Bill Berzeench and Drew Miller were actually the same person? NOT LIKELY!!!!!

Edited by kickazz

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8 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Im fine with Larkin/AA on the PK. Theyre young just like Dats/Z back in the day.

But i think the goal is to find competent PKers who can take those duties away from those players, so those players can focus on more offensive duties. Z and Dats had Hull, Yzerman, etc ahead of them. Larkin and AA dont. In fact they have the opposite, a team loaded with more middle teir players. Players that can already take those PK duties. 

I guess I'm just a proponent of using skilled guys in all situations. I'm not a fan of the pure grinders with little to no skill (Miller). I'm okay with Helm and even Glendening in that role because they're both fast and can provide some offense. Larkin has been unreal on the penalty kill, so I'm okay with keeping him there until we find a player that can effectively replace him. Athanasiou looked good there in his limited time, so I'd try that again.

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uh oh 

7 hours ago, kickazz said:

Do I think Larkin is a good PKer? Yes. Does it look like he needs more help? Yes. Would AA be the right man for the job? He could be. Does that mean Mantha could help out too? No. So what can Mantha do then? Spend more time with his gf. Would she appreciate that? Yes. Would I spend time with Mantha’s gf? Yes. His gf gave me some statistics that Zetterberg’s son Love is top 5 from MULTIPLE sources for 2033 draft. Now does this mean we should draft him? Yes. How would @Euro_Twins feel about that? Good. Why? Because he wants the son of Zetterberg and the son of Datsyuk to play together and be drafted as the new Euro Twins. Does that mean it’s going to happen? No. Does @kliq want this to happen? Yes. Would he want to fight Bret The Hitman Hart? No. Does that mean @Jonas Mahonas is in love with me? Probably. Does this mean @Bill Berzeench and Drew Miller were actually the same person? NOT LIKELY!!!!!

Like baby Mario and baby Luigi in mario kart. I would love that!

Edited by Euro_Twins

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22 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree that Mantha shouldn't be used in a penalty killing role. Like so many have already mentioned, he needs to save his energy for the offensive zone (even strength / power-play). However, I don't think that just the grinder type players (Helm, Miller, Glendening, etc.) should be used on the penalty kill and skilled players shouldn't. Larkin has been arguably our best penalty killer, and in the same way, I believe Athanasiou would be a very good penalty killer. If this thread were called "Why no Athanasiou on the PK?", I'd probably agree. Mantha, not so much.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying you don't put skill players on the PK. Z and D could do it, because they were both really good 2 way players. Larkin fits into that mold which is why he is used.

Mantha is more of a power forward type, and you don't really see guys like that on the PK. He's more in the mold of a Hull or Shanahan, and I don't recall either of those 2 ever being used on the PK. Mantha may be decent defensively, but like Hull or Shanny, I wouldn't describe him as a 2 way forward.

AA is more of a speed guy like Helm, but with more offensive ability. Not sure I would prefer AA on the PK until he improves his defense. If/when he does, he would be a good fit there. And unlike Helm, he hopefully pots a few shorties on his breakaway chances.

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5 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying you don't put skill players on the PK. Z and D could do it, because they were both really good 2 way players. Larkin fits into that mold which is why he is used.

Mantha is more of a power forward type, and you don't really see guys like that on the PK. He's more in the mold of a Hull or Shanahan, and I don't recall either of those 2 ever being used on the PK. Mantha may be decent defensively, but like Hull or Shanny, I wouldn't describe him as a 2 way forward.

AA is more of a speed guy like Helm, but with more offensive ability. Not sure I would prefer AA on the PK until he improves his defense. If/when he does, he would be a good fit there. And unlike Helm, he hopefully pots a few shorties on his breakaway chances.

Shanahan was used on the PK quite often. Had the most short handed goals in the 02 season actually.

Another power-forward ish guy on the PK was Johan Franzen. Though not often because D and Z were more than enough to work with Draper and Maltby.

But Franzen was a natural center so it made sence to use him  on pk once in a while.

Shanny was put on PK because Bowman did whatever he wanted to do. Just ask 65 goal scoring turned into Selke trophy winner Steve Yzerman.

But Mantha is no Shanahan, he’s no center, he’s no Zetterberg, nor is he Datsyuk. He’s good, but he’s not that level, and might never be. Shanny is a hall of famer. He was more than just elite. He could do whatever he wanted if he really wanted. He just preferred cherry picking Federov’s passes and scoring goals. 

Edited by kickazz

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52 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I think you stopped short of a good point - that a big forward with a big reach and a danger to break away and actually score can be useful to a pk.  Yah?

He could be, but he has to be good defensively in order to be on the PK. Shanahan was and so was Franzen. People just don't talk about it much because Shanahan was more known for his 656 goals and Franzen was known to score all those goals in the playoffs. 

 

 

Edited by kickazz

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18 hours ago, kickazz said:

Shanahan was used on the PK quite often. Had the most short handed goals in the 02 season actually.

Another power-forward ish guy on the PK was Johan Franzen. Though not often because D and Z were more than enough to work with Draper and Maltby.

But Franzen was a natural center so it made sence to use him  on pk once in a while.

Shanny was put on PK because Bowman did whatever he wanted to do. Just ask 65 goal scoring turned into Selke trophy winner Steve Yzerman.

But Mantha is no Shanahan, he’s no center, he’s no Zetterberg, nor is he Datsyuk. He’s good, but he’s not that level, and might never be. Shanny is a hall of famer. He was more than just elite. He could do whatever he wanted if he really wanted. He just preferred cherry picking Federov’s passes and scoring goals. 

Really? Where was I? Z, D, Draper, Maltby, I remember them doing it. But I honestly don't remember Shanahan on the PK? I mean I'm not surprised. It was Bowman after all. He could put Paul Coffey on the PK and noone would question it. It definitely gives me a greater appreciation for Shanny tho.

BTW, does Hossa ever play on the PK? Or was it just that bum Franzen that Kenny chose over him?:lol:

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15 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Really? Where was I? Z, D, Draper, Maltby, I remember them doing it. But I honestly don't remember Shanahan on the PK? I mean I'm not surprised. It was Bowman after all. He could put Paul Coffey on the PK and noone would question it. It definitely gives me a greater appreciation for Shanny tho.

BTW, does Hossa ever play on the PK? Or was it just that bum Franzen that Kenny chose over him?:lol:

Oh yea. Hossa was a great Pker in his career for sure. 

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2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I heard it gives you a "mysterious" skin condition that only flares up when ur contract is greater than your desire to play.

Dumbest reason ever to stop playing hockey. And they made stupid excuses too. There's are ways around allergies but you know, not if  you're trying to LTIR someone. 

Edited by kickazz

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16 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Hossa had been dealing with it for awhile, it got worse.

Got worse at age 38. Not 35 or 36, or 37.

38 was the magic number. After a 20 year hockey career. The year to call it was age 38.

Not 37.

38. 

When he looked considerably slower on ice than the year before. Clearly looked like he was showing signs of age in the 16/17 season. That was the same year where the allergy got so terrible he could no longer handle it.  

Edited by kickazz

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1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Doesn't mean it wasn't a legitimate condition.  I'm pretty sure the NHL wouldn't have let it go otherwise

No one says he's lying. But a lot of players are allergic to the material in those equipment and it's not a condition that would make him unable to play hockey. Besides, he can be treated for it. They're using a loop-hole of "It's best to avoid the allergen". No difference than a doctor saying "it's best to avoid the sun so you never get skin cancer". And no different than saying "it's best to not ever drive if you don't want to get killed in a car crash". Well no s hit. 

Bottom line is it's not a life threaning or career ending injury. It actually isn't an injury at all. No part of his body is injured. Hence he shouldn't be on an "Injured reserve" list. It's simply him quitting because of inconvenience and also to avoid recapture penalty for the Hawks. 

In this case the LTIR being used more for early retirement and inconveniences. They should just change the name to Long-term retirement plan. LTRP. 

That way, even though Zetterberg's back is fine medically speaking, he can just get on that ASAP and say "well it's best for me to stop palying hockey because even though my back is technically 100% healed, hockey is such a dangerous sport that I can injure it again".

And then every 38 year old player can do the same thing. "Well you know, my wife is telling me I'm getting older, and I need to spend my time with my kids, she wants me to be around and be a father. Hockey being such a dangerous sport could take my life away and my kids wouldn't have a father anymore, this is why I feel as though I can no longer play, it would be an inconvenience to me and my family". And the doctor could give the report saying "Hockey is a high-contact sport that can cause injuries and be life-threatening, in my expert medical opinion he has a good reason to be placed on the injured reserve". 

Pronger was a start to the LTIR exploitation, Hossa's situation just made it dumber. More will come. Trust me. And I'd say in 10-15 years LTIR will have new rules so teams can't use it as a cap circumvention. Something along the lines of teams still having to have it partly  count towards their cap. 

Edited by kickazz

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4 hours ago, kickazz said:

No one says he's lying. But a lot of players are allergic to the material in those equipment and it's not a condition that would make him unable to play hockey. Besides, he can be treated for it. They're using a loop-hole of "It's best to avoid the allergen". No difference than a doctor saying "it's best to avoid the sun so you never get skin cancer". And no different than saying "it's best to not ever drive if you don't want to get killed in a car crash". Well no s hit. 

Bottom line is it's not a life threaning or career ending injury. It actually isn't an injury at all. No part of his body is injured. Hence he shouldn't be on an "Injured reserve" list. It's simply him quitting because of inconvenience and also to avoid recapture penalty for the Hawks. 

In this case the LTIR being used more for early retirement and inconveniences. They should just change the name to Long-term retirement plan. LTRP. 

That way, even though Zetterberg's back is fine medically speaking, he can just get on that ASAP and say "well it's best for me to stop palying hockey because even though my back is technically 100% healed, hockey is such a dangerous sport that I can injure it again".

And then every 38 year old player can do the same thing. "Well you know, my wife is telling me I'm getting older, and I need to spend my time with my kids, she wants me to be around and be a father. Hockey being such a dangerous sport could take my life away and my kids wouldn't have a father anymore, this is why I feel as though I can no longer play, it would be an inconvenience to me and my family". And the doctor could give the report saying "Hockey is a high-contact sport that can cause injuries and be life-threatening, in my expert medical opinion he has a good reason to be placed on the injured reserve". 

Pronger was a start to the LTIR exploitation, Hossa's situation just made it dumber. More will come. Trust me. And I'd say in 10-15 years LTIR will have new rules so teams can't use it as a cap circumvention. Something along the lines of teams still having to have it partly  count towards their cap. 

Yep. Everyone knows its bogus. His allergy is he's older, less effective, and taking up cap space. The league can't do much about it though, they can't really prove it and they're probably afraid of a grievance/lawsuit from the NHLPA.

LTIR is becoming the equivalent of a "therapy" dog. There are legitimate service animals out there, which is fine, but then you have those crazy ladies at Walmart or Meijer who don't have a legitimate claim to one. They just want to take their pet with them to the store so they just claim its a "therapy" dog even tho they have no documentation or proof of it. And the stores won't really do much about it, they're too afraid of "offending" them to require any sort of proof. Instead lets just make the rest of us have to worry about finding pet hair in our food or having our pet allergies aggravated because someone has an unhealthy attachment to their animals.

PET PEEVE! PUN INTENDED!

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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