• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

HockeytownRules19

Cholowski playing really well

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

On 1/2/2018 at 11:59 PM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Talk about glass half empty. 8th in scoring for an 19 year old defensemen is promising in any league. He's playing against 20 and 21 year olds. Besides he's a defenseman, so I'd rather he maybe be good at say...defense.

What are you talking about?  Are you at all familiar with the WHL or CHL in general?  You make it seem like he's a young guy playing against older players for the most part.  It's actually the exact opposite.

Firstly, he'll be 20 in a month, so suggesting he's a 19 year is accurate, but misleading.  Secondly, suggesting he's playing against 20 and 21 year olds is completely false.  There is not a single 21 year old in the league, because the age cut of is 20.  Not only that, each team is limited to only three 20 year olds.  15 year olds can play in the league (for up to 5 games anyway).  

He's a guy that will be 20 next month and playing against mostly 17 and 18 year olds.  Average age in the league is right around 18.

I always discount performance in junior from guys who are 19 and 20 years olds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

What are you talking about?  Are you at all familiar with the WHL or CHL in general?  You make it seem like he's a young guy playing against older players for the most part.  It's actually the exact opposite.

Firstly, he'll be 20 in a month, so suggesting he's a 19 year is accurate, but misleading.  Secondly, suggesting he's playing against 20 and 21 year olds is completely false.  There is not a single 21 year old in the league, because the age cut of is 20.  Not only that, each team is limited to only three 20 year olds.  15 year olds can play in the league (for up to 5 games anyway).  

He's a guy that will be 20 next month and playing against mostly 17 and 18 year olds.  Average age in the league is right around 18.

I always discount performance in junior from guys who are 19 and 20 years olds.

Ummm...not quite.

1st bold: He turns 20 on Feb 15th. The season started on Sept 21st and ends on March 18th. He was 19 1/2 (is that accurate enough?) when the season started and he will be 20 all of one month when the season ends. He was essentially an 18 year old for all of last season. So yeah he's playing the season as pretty much a 19 year old, right?

Underlined bold: Although I admittedly don't follow the CHL, I do do research before I post. Here is the link I am basing ages on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_ice_hockey

Some tidbits from the article:

"Junior hockey is ice hockey competition generally for players between 16 and 21 years of age."

"The CHL currently places a cap of three 20-year-old or overage players per team, while only four 16-year-olds are permitted. "

Have I checked every teams roster to see how old every single player is? No. But common sense would dictate that teams would try to get as many older players on the team as they could. And being that Cholowski is going to be a 20 year old, it stands to reason that there are already guys in the league who started the season at 20 and will be 21 before the season is over. That would make them older with more years played, Right? And as I believe was already stated by kickazz(?) the guys who are above him in points are older and been in the league longer? Am I right? So how old are those guys?

2nd bold: Not according to the link I posted.

3rd bold: So then being 6th? in the league right now means nothing then?

Finally, my points were that he is playing well for the league he's in. Do you agree? He's a defenseman, so I am more concerned about his defense than points. Am I wrong?  One can argue the fine details all they want, but it doesn't change or delegitimize  anything I posted.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Ummm...not quite.

1st bold: He turns 20 on Feb 15th. The season started on Sept 21st and ends on March 18th. He was 19 1/2 (is that accurate enough?) when the season started and he will be 20 all of one month when the season ends. He was essentially an 18 year old for all of last season. So yeah he's playing the season as pretty much a 19 year old, right?

Underlined bold: Although I admittedly don't follow the CHL, I do do research before I post. Here is the link I am basing ages on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_ice_hockey

Some tidbits from the article:

"Junior hockey is ice hockey competition generally for players between 16 and 21 years of age."

"The CHL currently places a cap of three 20-year-old or overage players per team, while only four 16-year-olds are permitted. "

Have I checked every teams roster to see how old every single player is? No. But common sense would dictate that teams would try to get as many older players on the team as they could. And being that Cholowski is going to be a 20 year old, it stands to reason that there are already guys in the league who started the season at 20 and will be 21 before the season is over. That would make them older with more years played, Right? And as I believe was already stated by kickazz(?) the guys who are above him in points are older and been in the league longer? Am I right? So how old are those guys?

2nd bold: Not according to the link I posted.

3rd bold: So then being 6th? in the league right now means nothing then?

Finally, my points were that he is playing well for the league he's in. Do you agree? He's a defenseman, so I am more concerned about his defense than points. Am I wrong?  One can argue the fine details all they want, but it doesn't change or delegitimize  anything I posted.

 

What you're forgetting is it's a development league for youth. Not many players with an NHL future will play more than 2-3 seasons there (18/19yrs old). Some skip it entirely. The older players in the league usually do not make it very far professionally as they would have moved on already if they could. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get what the argument is here. 

Chowloski is ranked 6th among defense points and it's his first season in that league. The rest of the guys on top 10 have been in the league longer than him. Age wise only 2 of the players on the top 10 are younger than Cholowski, the rest older or the same age, but still all of them have been in the league longer. 

Regardless of how you cut it, Cholowski doesn't have any more significant advantage than the other 9 players, if anything the others have more experience in that league than he does. 

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Son of a Wing said:

What you're forgetting is it's a development league for youth. Not many players with an NHL future will play more than 2-3 seasons there (18/19yrs old). Some skip it entirely. The older players in the league usually do not make it very far professionally as they would have moved on already if they could. 

Totally valid point and I don't disagree with you. The guys over 19 still playing there are probably lesser players. (You could say that just about any league besides the NHL is full of lesser players.) But they also have more experience, which is a developmental advantage. My point was that Cholowski is playing against guys who ARE older (literally and developmentally) and have MORE experience at that level even if they have lower potential.

Not saying anyone is wrong or I'm right. I just see Cholowski's development as a positive and I am optimistic. Being 6th in points shouldnt be viewed as disappointment. Besides, I haven't heard Devellano complaining yet.

3 hours ago, kickazz said:

I don't get what the argument is here. 

Chowloski is ranked 6th among defense points and it's his first season in that league. The rest of the guys on top 10 have been in the league longer than him. Age wise only 2 of the players on the top 10 are younger than Cholowski, the rest older or the same age, but still all of them have been in the league longer. 

Regardless of how you cut it, Cholowski doesn't have any more significant advantage than the other 9 players, if anything the others have more experience in that league than he does. 

Haters gonna hate.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont get why people are disputing anything here. For the kid to be good at the NHL level, ideally he needs to play well in the WHL, then if/when he goes to the AHL he needs to play well also. Nobody is saying that success at the WHL level guarantees success at the NHL level, but its a good first step.

Can't we just leave it at that? All we can evaluate the kid by is his performance at the WHL level because that's where he is playing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, kliq said:

I dont get why people are disputing anything here. For the kid to be good at the NHL level, ideally he needs to play well in the WHL, then if/when he goes to the AHL he needs to play well also. Nobody is saying that success at the WHL level guarantees success at the NHL level, but its a good first step.

Can't we just leave it at that? All we can evaluate the kid by is his performance at the WHL level because that's where he is playing.

He's not dominating against 18 year olds, so he sucks.

4 hours ago, kickazz said:

I mean if that's what you think. Bottom line is I have a hotter wife and a cooler son. 

Prove it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/9/2018 at 11:36 AM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Ummm...not quite.

1st bold: He turns 20 on Feb 15th. The season started on Sept 21st and ends on March 18th. He was 19 1/2 (is that accurate enough?) when the season started and he will be 20 all of one month when the season ends. He was essentially an 18 year old for all of last season. So yeah he's playing the season as pretty much a 19 year old, right?

Underlined bold: Although I admittedly don't follow the CHL, I do do research before I post. Here is the link I am basing ages on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_ice_hockey

Some tidbits from the article:

"Junior hockey is ice hockey competition generally for players between 16 and 21 years of age."

"The CHL currently places a cap of three 20-year-old or overage players per team, while only four 16-year-olds are permitted. "

Have I checked every teams roster to see how old every single player is? No. But common sense would dictate that teams would try to get as many older players on the team as they could. And being that Cholowski is going to be a 20 year old, it stands to reason that there are already guys in the league who started the season at 20 and will be 21 before the season is over. That would make them older with more years played, Right? And as I believe was already stated by kickazz(?) the guys who are above him in points are older and been in the league longer? Am I right? So how old are those guys?

2nd bold: Not according to the link I posted.

3rd bold: So then being 6th? in the league right now means nothing then?

Finally, my points were that he is playing well for the league he's in. Do you agree? He's a defenseman, so I am more concerned about his defense than points. Am I wrong?  One can argue the fine details all they want, but it doesn't change or delegitimize  anything I posted.

My main point is that I ignore stats for the most part of older players in juniors because it really doesn't mean much.  If a player at that age isn't putting up big numbers than it's a problem for sure.  I get that he's a defensemen, but if he wasn't high in the scoring list for Dmen, this thread wouldn't exist, so that's why I focus on discounting the stats in the context of this thread.  I haven't seen him play in junior to judge otherwise anyway.

So, just to provide more statistical age evidence, I did go through ever roster and of the 710 players that have played at least 1 game, he's older than 620 (or 87%) of them.  The 87% is actually probably low in reality though because of the small group of players that are older than him, there is a good chunk of them that haven't played many games (literally some with 1 game) due to age restrictions.

I don't have this year's stats, but assuming similar to last year....at start of season, average age for player in WHL was 17.98 years.  He started the season at 19.6 years.  Most sole point was that he's playing against younger guys, which is normally a big deal at that age level, so I wouldn't place too much weight on his production in terms of future projections.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, toby91_ca said:

My main point is that I ignore stats for the most part of older players in juniors because it really doesn't mean much.  If a player at that age isn't putting up big numbers than it's a problem for sure.  I get that he's a defensemen, but if he wasn't high in the scoring list for Dmen, this thread wouldn't exist, so that's why I focus on discounting the stats in the context of this thread.  I haven't seen him play in junior to judge otherwise anyway.

So, just to provide more statistical age evidence, I did go through ever roster and of the 710 players that have played at least 1 game, he's older than 620 (or 87%) of them.  The 87% is actually probably low in reality though because of the small group of players that are older than him, there is a good chunk of them that haven't played many games (literally some with 1 game) due to age restrictions.

I don't have this year's stats, but assuming similar to last year....at start of season, average age for player in WHL was 17.98 years.  He started the season at 19.6 years.  Most sole point was that he's playing against younger guys, which is normally a big deal at that age level, so I wouldn't place too much weight on his production in terms of future projections.

Average age is 17.98 and his age was 19.6 you’re nitpicking for the sake of arguing.

Not much of a physical difference between an average age and his age.  

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kickazz said:

Average age is 17.98 and his age was 19.6 you’re nitpicking for the sake of arguing.

Not much of a physical difference between an average age and his age.  

I actually wasn't nitpicking at all here....difference between 19.6 years old and 18 years old is massive.

Go look at a bunch of players that played in junior for 3 or years and check their production difference from 18 to 19 years old.  I'd be you'll see a lot increase production 50+ % in that one year and the difference we are talking about is closer to 2 years than it is to 1.

I've seen it, over and over and over again.  The quick and easy example is Mantha...at 18 he scored 89 points in 67 games, at 19, he scored 120 points in 57 games.....increased his production by 59%.

I'm not saying it's always like this, but it's quite ordinary.  It's hard to do this by looking at the good NHL players because most of them never play in junior by the time they are 19.  The best of the best are in the NHL a year earlier, the good players may stay back a year in junior, but for the most part, it's rare to play in junior 2 years after draft age for guys that ultimately become NHL stars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now