Wings Recall Hicketts

[krsmith17 7,191]

Hicketts recalled again. Will likely be up for the rest of the season (hopefully playing over Ouellet)...

 

 

[kipwinger 8,524]

I'd rather see Hronek.  Hicketts has no future in Detroit.  Maybe if he could skate, but alas.  Small and slow really doesn't have much use in the NHL, despite how good his story is. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

19 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'd rather see Hronek.  Hicketts has no future in Detroit.  Maybe if he could skate, but alas.  Small and slow really doesn't have much use in the NHL, despite how good his story is. 

I think Hicketts will be a decent bottom pairing defenseman. I agree though, Hronek has a much higher ceiling and has been the much better player this year in GR. It would have been fun to see what he could do in a short stint.

[kipwinger 8,524]

I don't think he'll even be a bottom pairing guy.  He's smaller and slower than any of Ouellet, Jensen, or Sproul were, and isn't noticeably better offensively.  I see no reason to believe he'd fare any better than any of them have.  Small guys can make it in today's NHL (Ryan Ellis), but you have to be able to skate.  This kid is going to get dominated if he plays consistently for us.  But it's just like the Red Wings to hold back a better player because Hicketts "earned" it or whatever. 

I was watching the Montreal feed of the game last night and their announcers were going on and on about how awful our defense was.  Particularly how slow and susceptible to the forecheck we are.  In response we called up a guy who's both slow and small.  Bang up job with personnel management this team is doing. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

17 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't think he'll even be a bottom pairing guy.  He's smaller and slower than any of Ouellet, Jensen, or Sproul were, and isn't noticeably better offensively.  I see no reason to believe he'd fare any better than any of them have.  Small guys can make it in today's NHL (Ryan Ellis), but you have to be able to skate.  This kid is going to get dominated if he plays consistently for us.  But it's just like the Red Wings to hold back a better player because Hicketts "earned" it or whatever. 

I was watching the Montreal feed of the game last night and their announcers were going on and on about how awful our defense was.  Particularly how slow and susceptible to the forecheck we are.  In response we called up a guy who's both slow and small.  Bang up job with personnel management this team is doing. 

Hicketts is definitely smaller than any of those guys, but I wouldn't say he's slower. I never seen him as a noticeably slow defenseman. Granted, I've only seen him play 2, maybe 3 games this year, but I watched him a ton last season. I'd bet on him in a race against Ouellet for sure though. Hicketts also plays a very sound defensive game, hits and blocks shots. I know you don't put a ton of stock into that, and you're all about possession (I am too), but I believe there is still a place for a Hicketts type defenseman on this squad. I was impressed with him in the one game he played with the Wings this season, and I'm okay with him getting another look. But again, it would have been nice to see Hronek get the call. If Hicketts doesn't pan out, I won't be too broke up about it, because like I said, he's a bottom pairing guy at best, and they're a dime a dozen, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't rooting for the guy...

Luckily I had the Wings feed, so I didn't have to suffer through the Canadiens bulls***, but I'm not sure they have much room to talk down on our defense... Petry is the only defenseman on that team I'd take over any defenseman on our team...

[kipwinger 8,524]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Hicketts is definitely smaller than any of those guys, but I wouldn't say he's slower. I never seen him as a noticeably slow defenseman. Granted, I've only seen him play 2, maybe 3 games this year, but I watched him a ton last season. I'd bet on him in a race against Ouellet for sure though. Hicketts also plays a very sound defensive game, hits and blocks shots. I know you don't put a ton of stock into that, and you're all about possession (I am too), but I believe there is still a place for a Hicketts type defenseman on this squad. I was impressed with him in the one game he played with the Wings this season, and I'm okay with him getting another look. But again, it would have been nice to see Hronek get the call. If Hicketts doesn't pan out, I won't be too broke up about it, because like I said, he's a bottom pairing guy at best, and they're a dime a dozen, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't rooting for the guy...

Luckily I had the Wings feed, so I didn't have to suffer through the Canadiens bulls***, but I'm not sure they have much room to talk down on our defense... Petry is the only defenseman on that team I'd take over any defenseman on our team...

I presume you mean aside from Weber, but your point is taken.  They weren't really talking trash, just pointing out the obvious (our defense is awful and slow and unskilled) in its current iteration.  They referred to our defense as "old school", which is true, but probably the most damning indictment of the current state of the Wings.  In an era where everyone else is doing what we used to do (drafting on skill and speed instead of size), we're trying to be the 1995 New Jersey Devils.  Ugh.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I presume you mean aside from Weber, but your point is taken.  They weren't really talking trash, just pointing out the obvious (our defense is awful and slow and unskilled) in its current iteration.  They referred to our defense as "old school", which is true, but probably the most damning indictment of the current state of the Wings.  In an era where everyone else is doing what we used to do (drafting on skill and speed instead of size), we're trying to be the 1995 New Jersey Devils.  Ugh.

I'd take Weber over any of our defensemen today, but I don't think I'd want that contract on the books for another 8 seasons... Weber isn't exactly fast now, imagine how slow he'll be in 4-5 years. I don't see that contract aging well.

I agree. Our defense is an obvious concern. Dahlin would go a long way in helping in that regard. Hronek should (hopefully) be a top 3. Same with Cholowski. Kronwall, Ericsson and Daley will be gone in two years tops. We're getting younger, and with that, we should get faster. 

I'd be okay with something like this in a couple years...

*Dahlin* - Hronek

Cholowski - Sambrook

DeKeyser - Jensen

[kipwinger 8,524]

I hope Dekeyser gets traded, or falls in a well, or something between now and then.  I genuinely cannot believe that teams were interested in him, Helm, and Glendening at the trade deadline and none of them got traded.  FML

[martyrme19 73]

27 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I hope Dekeyser gets traded, or falls in a well, or something between now and then.  I genuinely cannot believe that teams were interested in him, Helm, and Glendening at the trade deadline and none of them got traded.  FML

Welp, Dekeyser and Helm both have NTCs....so either could've enforced them, who knows?

Someone, somewhere ( I forget who and where so take it for what it's worth) said TOR was offering a 5th round for Glendening but Holland wanted a 2nd. Maybe he was trying to play hardball to get a 4th or 3rd....but I'd have even taken the 5th!

[BigWillieStyle 662]

Should've brought up McIllrath. At least we'd have some entertainment value for the last 6 games. 

 

And yeah, I know that he can't fight worth a damn, but at least he will fight, and he's expendable if the league feels that punching Malkin in the face wasn't warranted.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd take Weber over any of our defensemen today, but I don't think I'd want that contract on the books for another 8 seasons... Weber isn't exactly fast now, imagine how slow he'll be in 4-5 years. I don't see that contract aging well.

I agree. Our defense is an obvious concern. Dahlin would go a long way in helping in that regard. Hronek should (hopefully) be a top 3. Same with Cholowski. Kronwall, Ericsson and Daley will be gone in two years tops. We're getting younger, and with that, we should get faster. 

I'd be okay with something like this in a couple years...

*Dahlin* - Hronek

Cholowski - Sambrook

DeKeyser - Jensen

Not holding out much hope for Saarajarvi?

1 hour ago, martyrme19 said:

Welp, Dekeyser and Helm both have NTCs....so either could've enforced them, who knows?

Someone, somewhere ( I forget who and where so take it for what it's worth) said TOR was offering a 5th round for Glendening but Holland wanted a 2nd. Maybe he was trying to play hardball to get a 4th or 3rd....but I'd have even taken the 5th!

Why trade him for that? At 1.8 AAV he's not really hurting the cap situation. He's a 28 year old RH C who's a good 4th liner and penalty killer. His faceoff pct has gone up every year and is currently at just below 59%. That's invaluable for PK and defensive zone faceoffs. I'm not saying he's worth a 2nd, and I would trade him for the right price; but a 5th rounder is way less than what he's worth. I wouldn't take a 4th either. Compared to what other 4th liners are making, I don't really see a need to trade him unless its an overpayment. If I am looking to clear out bottom 6 forwards, he would be last on my list.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/columbus-blue-jackets/mark-letestu-6382/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/matt-martin-7167/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/new-york-islanders/cal-clutterbuck-6217/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/washington-capitals/jay-beagle-7199/

 

[martyrme19 73]

13 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Not holding out much hope for Saarajarvi?

Why trade him for that? At 1.8 AAV he's not really hurting the cap situation. He's a 28 year old RH C who's a good 4th liner and penalty killer. His faceoff pct has gone up every year and is currently at just below 59%. That's invaluable for PK and defensive zone faceoffs. I'm not saying he's worth a 2nd, and I would trade him for the right price; but a 5th rounder is way less than what he's worth. I wouldn't take a 4th either. Compared to what other 4th liners are making, I don't really see a need to trade him unless its an overpayment. If I am looking to clear out bottom 6 forwards, he would be last on my list.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/columbus-blue-jackets/mark-letestu-6382/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/matt-martin-7167/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/new-york-islanders/cal-clutterbuck-6217/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/washington-capitals/jay-beagle-7199/

 

All valid points, and you're probably right. I'm just a dude on a hockey forum spewing stuff after giving it 3 seconds of thought. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

18 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Not holding out much hope for Saarajarvi?

Nah, I'm not that high on him. I hope he proves me wrong.

[e_prime 1,936]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Not holding out much hope for Saarajarvi?

Why trade him for that? At 1.8 AAV he's not really hurting the cap situation. He's a 28 year old RH C who's a good 4th liner and penalty killer. His faceoff pct has gone up every year and is currently at just below 59%. That's invaluable for PK and defensive zone faceoffs. I'm not saying he's worth a 2nd, and I would trade him for the right price; but a 5th rounder is way less than what he's worth. I wouldn't take a 4th either. Compared to what other 4th liners are making, I don't really see a need to trade him unless its an overpayment. If I am looking to clear out bottom 6 forwards, he would be last on my list.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/columbus-blue-jackets/mark-letestu-6382/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/matt-martin-7167/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/new-york-islanders/cal-clutterbuck-6217/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/washington-capitals/jay-beagle-7199/

 

Not singling you out Martyrme19.  ...but just remember this conversation when someone says, "Remember when Holland didn't trade Glendennnning for x.  He sucks.  He's gotta go." This is typical behavior for LGRW. 

Need I recall the names? 

Pick the least of our problems -- typically a fourth line, veteran character guy with some specific skill set -- and harp on it needlessly.  Is Ken Holland out of his ******* mind if he thinks he's getting a second round pick for Glendennnning?  Absolutely.

Should we trade away a guy for a fifth -- a guy who's doing his job, not hurting the team in any way -- just for s***s and giggles and to make a rival better?  Nope.

If Hicketts is in the lineup and we get to see what he's got, I'm all for it.  There's no time like the present to give these guys a shot.  Certainly not gonna hurt our chances at improving that draft pick.

Edited March 27, 2018 by e_prime

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, martyrme19 said:

All valid points, and you're probably right. I'm just a dude on a hockey forum spewing stuff after giving it 3 seconds of thought. 

No worries. We all do it sometimes. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Not holding out much hope for Saarajarvi?

Why trade him for that? At 1.8 AAV he's not really hurting the cap situation. He's a 28 year old RH C who's a good 4th liner and penalty killer. His faceoff pct has gone up every year and is currently at just below 59%. That's invaluable for PK and defensive zone faceoffs. I'm not saying he's worth a 2nd, and I would trade him for the right price; but a 5th rounder is way less than what he's worth. I wouldn't take a 4th either. Compared to what other 4th liners are making, I don't really see a need to trade him unless its an overpayment. If I am looking to clear out bottom 6 forwards, he would be last on my list.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/columbus-blue-jackets/mark-letestu-6382/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/matt-martin-7167/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/new-york-islanders/cal-clutterbuck-6217/

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/washington-capitals/jay-beagle-7199/

 

Because while he's not a problem,  he's not a solution either.   And because Helm can do the same job and is harder to trade.   And because even the best 4th liners are replaceable.   And because they're replaceable it's rare that anyone offers anything for one so you should jump at it if you have an extra one you don't need.   And because if we want to accelerate the rebuild (as Holland and Draper and Martin have said) then we need picks sooner rather than later.  

I don't dislike Glendening,  but he's not so good that we can't live without him.  Right now we need the picks.  I'd SERIOUSLY entertain any offer for guys over 25-26 who can get us picks now and who will likely be too old to be helpful in 3 to 5 years when we are good again. 

[martyrme19 73]

1 hour ago, e_prime said:

Not singling you out Martyrme19.  ...but just remember this conversation when someone says, "Remember when Holland didn't trade Glendennnning for x.  He sucks.  He's gotta go." This is typical behavior for LGRW. 

Need I recall the names? 

Pick the least of our problems -- typically a fourth line, veteran character guy with some specific skill set -- and harp on it needlessly.  Is Ken Holland out of his ******* mind if he thinks he's getting a second round pick for Glendennnning?  Absolutely.

Should we trade away a guy for a fifth -- a guy who's doing his job, not hurting the team in any way -- just for s***s and giggles and to make a rival better?  Nope.

If Hicketts is in the lineup and we get to see what he's got, I'm all for it.  There's no time like the present to give these guys a shot.  Certainly not gonna hurt our chances at improving that draft pick.

No worries. Some days I'm defensive of Holland where I think that the rebuild is just a necessary evil and missing the playoffs and having bad contracts is part of the process. Which honestly, it is always eventually. Other days I'm like "WTF Holland....Trade Zetterberg! Trade Kronwall! Trade Abdelkader! - Sign Martin St. Louis out of retirement and trade him for a 2nd rd! - Sign Jagr - I don't care if it doesn't make sense!"
 

[Juklitz 85]

It´s fine to give Hicketts some shots. Next year he´s going to compete for a spot together with Hronek, Cholo, maybe Sulak and maybe other guys, guess he´s going to be on shorter side of the leash. Yeah, he´s fine, but have serious doubts about his ceiling. 

Don´t forget next year is last one for Kroner, XO and also Jensen, so 18/19 will be interesting season to see who really wants to make NHL. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, Juklitz said:

It´s fine to give Hicketts some shots. Next year he´s going to compete for a spot together with Hronek, Cholo, maybe Sulak and maybe other guys, guess he´s going to be on shorter side of the leash. Yeah, he´s fine, but have serious doubts about his ceiling. 

Don´t forget next year is last one for Kroner, XO and also Jensen, so 18/19 will be interesting season to see who really wants to make NHL. 

Hronek could be ready. Assuming he continues producing at a decent clip down in GR, I'd like to see him given a look sooner than later. Unless Cholowski blows everyone away in training camp, I think he should probably play a full season with the Griffins next year. I'm not that high on Sulak, already being 24 years old, but who knows. He'll likely get a look down the stretch for the Griffins, and possibly in the playoffs.

What do you mean, you have serious doubts about Hicketts' ceiling? His ceiling isn't that high. Very few might think he's a mid-pair defenseman, but most see him as a bottom pair defenseman. You have serious doubts he can be a bottom pair guy?

I don't think there's any question Kronwall should / will retire after next season. I'm hoping Ouellet will be traded / waived this summer. I'd re-sign Jensen though. Anything under around $1.5M for a few years would be good with me. It's also possible that we could move one of Ericsson or Daley at next year's deadline, although that will probably wait until the following season.

[kickazz 5,459]

17 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I hope Dekeyser gets traded, or falls in a well, or something between now and then.  I genuinely cannot believe that teams were interested in him, Helm, and Glendening at the trade deadline and none of them got traded.  FML

Hahahahah god I’ve bitched about this same thing for 2 years now. 

[Juklitz 85]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

What do you mean, you have serious doubts about Hicketts' ceiling? His ceiling isn't that high. Very few might think he's a mid-pair defenseman, but most see him as a bottom pair defenseman. You have serious doubts he can be a bottom pair guy?

 

When he can be bottom pair guy? Now? For sure he can. Maybe mid-pair, I can imagine him playing mid-pair right now. 

In some bright future version of Red Wings? I´m really not sure. Fact he´s over XO now doesn´t mean he´s proper bottom pairing guy for a team which maximum is more than ´to be in the mix´. 

I just don´t know it and current roster is missing these comparables. Knowing recent history of D youngsters we have - yes, I have doubts. But that´s nothing against Hicketts, I like him and yes, I hope he proves me wrong.

[krsmith17 7,191]

18 minutes ago, Juklitz said:

When he can be bottom pair guy? Now? For sure he can. Maybe mid-pair, I can imagine him playing mid-pair right now. 

In some bright future version of Red Wings? I´m really not sure. Fact he´s over XO now doesn´t mean he´s proper bottom pairing guy for a team which maximum is more than ´to be in the mix´. 

I just don´t know it and current roster is missing these comparables. Knowing recent history of D youngsters we have - yes, I have doubts. But that´s nothing against Hicketts, I like him and yes, I hope he proves me wrong.

I'm not speaking relative to our team though. I'm talking league wide, I see Hicketts as a bottom pair defenseman. I don't see that as being "seriously doubtful".

I'm hoping we'll have 6 defensemen better than him, but that's more so hoping we have a top end D core, than anything to do with Hicketts himself.

[puckbags 863]

I will take a guy like Hicketts over most of the scrubs we have playing D. In the time he's been up he's made good decisions, good passes, plays his position well and plays much bigger than his size.   He was our best d man last night hands down which says a lot for a guy who has played less than 5 games in the NHL. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

12 minutes ago, puckbags said:

I will take a guy like Hicketts over most of the scrubs we have playing D. In the time he's been up he's made good decisions, good passes, plays his position well and plays much bigger than his size.   He was our best d man last night hands down which says a lot for a guy who has played less than 5 games in the NHL. 

I agree, but it's also a very small sample size. Any young player full of piss and vinegar can come in and play one or two really good games. He did look good moving that puck though, especially in the offensive zone. I see him as a bottom pair defenseman, if he can become anything more than that, it's a huge bonus.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 3/27/2018 at 7:23 PM, kipwinger said:

Because while he's not a problem,  he's not a solution either.   And because Helm can do the same job and is harder to trade.   And because even the best 4th liners are replaceable.   And because they're replaceable it's rare that anyone offers anything for one so you should jump at it if you have an extra one you don't need.   And because if we want to accelerate the rebuild (as Holland and Draper and Martin have said) then we need picks sooner rather than later.  

I don't dislike Glendening,  but he's not so good that we can't live without him.  Right now we need the picks.  I'd SERIOUSLY entertain any offer for guys over 25-26 who can get us picks now and who will likely be too old to be helpful in 3 to 5 years when we are good again. 

First bold: Agreed.

2nd bold: Disagree here. Glendening has a much higher FO% and he's the only RH on the team that takes faceoffs IIRC.

3rd bold: True, but the league is moving away from 4th line scrubs. And they are becoming more and more expensive. Glendening is cheaper than a lot of them. From a cap perspective, that's a good thing.

4th Bold: Disagree. Wilson was traded twice already this year. Sheahan, who was playing on the 4th line this year, was also traded. Ott was traded last year. And that's just the Wings. It's not rare.

5th bold: Yes, the Wings are in a rebuild. But that doesn't mean that they should conduct a fire sale. Glendening is worth more than a 5th rounder IMO. Trading him for that is not only selling low, its bad management if they can get a better pick by holding out. Plus, after the Tatar haul, the last thing I want is for other GMs to smell blood in the water because they're giving players away.

6th bold: True, we need picks. But if we are 3-5 years from being good, why not trade players when you get the most back? He'll be easier to trade (and get a better return) the closer he gets to the end of his contract. Why be in a hurry?

7th bold: Glendening is 28. He averages only 12-13 minutes a game. He'll be 31-33 in 3-5 years. As a 4th liner, I doubt he'll be too old to contribute. It's not likes he's a scoring forward skating 20 minutes a night . Most teams have veterans on their 4th lines, even young, rebuilding ones. In 3-5 years, Glendening will be a cost effective, veteran depth forward.

Summary: Trading Glendening now for a 5th rounder would be a mistake IMO. What is the percentage of 5th rounders that ever even play a game in the NHL? If he's not hurting the team by his play or contract, and he's contributing, why trade him for so little? I would rather keep a guy who's 28, a 1.8 mil cap hit, 4th line and PK contributor, RH center who's a known commodity (although not spectacular), over an absolute long shot. I am not saying don't trade him, but unless it's for a good return, I wouldn't.