Wings Recall Hicketts

[kipwinger 8,524]

13 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

First bold: Agreed.

2nd bold: Disagree here. Glendening has a much higher FO% and he's the only RH on the team that takes faceoffs IIRC.

3rd bold: True, but the league is moving away from 4th line scrubs. And they are becoming more and more expensive. Glendening is cheaper than a lot of them. From a cap perspective, that's a good thing.

4th Bold: Disagree. Wilson was traded twice already this year. Sheahan, who was playing on the 4th line this year, was also traded. Ott was traded last year. And that's just the Wings. It's not rare.

5th bold: Yes, the Wings are in a rebuild. But that doesn't mean that they should conduct a fire sale. Glendening is worth more than a 5th rounder IMO. Trading him for that is not only selling low, its bad management if they can get a better pick by holding out. Plus, after the Tatar haul, the last thing I want is for other GMs to smell blood in the water because they're giving players away.

6th bold: True, we need picks. But if we are 3-5 years from being good, why not trade players when you get the most back? He'll be easier to trade (and get a better return) the closer he gets to the end of his contract. Why be in a hurry?

7th bold: Glendening is 28. He averages only 12-13 minutes a game. He'll be 31-33 in 3-5 years. As a 4th liner, I doubt he'll be too old to contribute. It's not likes he's a scoring forward skating 20 minutes a night . Most teams have veterans on their 4th lines, even young, rebuilding ones. In 3-5 years, Glendening will be a cost effective, veteran depth forward.

Summary: Trading Glendening now for a 5th rounder would be a mistake IMO. What is the percentage of 5th rounders that ever even play a game in the NHL? If he's not hurting the team by his play or contract, and he's contributing, why trade him for so little? I would rather keep a guy who's 28, a 1.8 mil cap hit, 4th line and PK contributor, RH center who's a known commodity (although not spectacular), over an absolute long shot. I am not saying don't trade him, but unless it's for a good return, I wouldn't.

 

 

 

Your entire position is based on the premise that we would only get a 5th rounder for him, i'm not sure where this comes from.   Given the prices that other similar talents have fetched I'd say he'd return more (despite the fact that a 5th might have been the initial ask). I mean,  if he's as valuable as you say why wouldn't he get a bigger return?

Secondly,  our penalty kill is ranked 22nd in the league,  and we are 23rd in faceoffs.   So a) it's not like these are team strengths that we need to maintain in order to have a competitive advantage,  and b) you're probably overestimating how good he really is at these things because he happens to be marginally better than a bad cast.  For instance,  his 58% FO is pretty high but it's really only because he doesn't take that many faceoffs.   Riley Sheahan has a 54% record but has taken about 320 more faceoffs this season than Glendening.   Compare these to truly exceptional FO men and you'll see why it's overblown.   Ryan O'Reilly has won 60% of 1949 faceoffs.  That's 1306 more faceoffs than Glendening has even taken.   So while Glendening is one of the better FO guys on our s***ty team,  he's not actually all that good in absolute terms. Certainly not good enough to keep around on a rebuilding team when picks (especially this year and next) are so valuable for a quicker rebuild. 

[lomekian 201]

If KH got offered a 2nd for Glendening, he'd have been traded. Probably also if he'd been offered a 3rd & a 4th. For anything less than that, trading him would have been pointless and counter-productive. He's a 4th liner who is good on faceoffs, defensively responsible, scored 10+  goals and is on pace for a career year. He's also a guy who can look decent on a wing, and even fill in on the 3rd line in a push and not look hopeless. Also his cap hit isn't nearly as bad as people make out.

He's also the perfect example of the undrafted unwanted guy made good in the modern game, and as such is no bad thing as a sign-post.

Back on topic, it makes more sense to look at Hicketts at NHL than Hronek. Hronek we know will get looks at the NHL level, but we also know he's positionally poor at present. Hicketts for his limitations has been an all situations guy, did well in preseason, and is closer to his ceiling. So it makes more sense to look at him and see what we've got, in order to inform moves this summer. Hronek will like be on GR next year anyway due to his defensive shortcomings, so its less urgent to look at him.

[kliq 3,755]

41 minutes ago, lomekian said:

If KH got offered a 2nd for Glendening, he'd have been traded. Probably also if he'd been offered a 3rd & a 4th. For anything less than that, trading him would have been pointless and counter-productive. He's a 4th liner who is good on faceoffs, defensively responsible, scored 10+  goals and is on pace for a career year. He's also a guy who can look decent on a wing, and even fill in on the 3rd line in a push and not look hopeless. Also his cap hit isn't nearly as bad as people make out.

He's also the perfect example of the undrafted unwanted guy made good in the modern game, and as such is no bad thing as a sign-post.

Back on topic, it makes more sense to look at Hicketts at NHL than Hronek. Hronek we know will get looks at the NHL level, but we also know he's positionally poor at present. Hicketts for his limitations has been an all situations guy, did well in preseason, and is closer to his ceiling. So it makes more sense to look at him and see what we've got, in order to inform moves this summer. Hronek will like be on GR next year anyway due to his defensive shortcomings, so its less urgent to look at him.

I highly doubt he's traded for a 4th. Maybe a 3rd, definitely a 2nd.

I think T.O would have traded for him had they no landed Plekanec. Babs loves him.

Edited March 30, 2018 by kliq

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 3/29/2018 at 11:14 AM, kipwinger said:

Your entire position is based on the premise that we would only get a 5th rounder for him, i'm not sure where this comes from.   Given the prices that other similar talents have fetched I'd say he'd return more (despite the fact that a 5th might have been the initial ask). I mean,  if he's as valuable as you say why wouldn't he get a bigger return?

Secondly,  our penalty kill is ranked 22nd in the league,  and we are 23rd in faceoffs.   So a) it's not like these are team strengths that we need to maintain in order to have a competitive advantage,  and b) you're probably overestimating how good he really is at these things because he happens to be marginally better than a bad cast.  For instance,  his 58% FO is pretty high but it's really only because he doesn't take that many faceoffs.   Riley Sheahan has a 54% record but has taken about 320 more faceoffs this season than Glendening.   Compare these to truly exceptional FO men and you'll see why it's overblown.   Ryan O'Reilly has won 60% of 1949 faceoffs.  That's 1306 more faceoffs than Glendening has even taken.   So while Glendening is one of the better FO guys on our s***ty team,  he's not actually all that good in absolute terms. Certainly not good enough to keep around on a rebuilding team when picks (especially this year and next) are so valuable for a quicker rebuild. 

First bold: 5th round pick was the rumor. 

2nd Bold: He's not "valuable". He's just worth more than a 5th (If that is in fact what was offered.) Obviously a 2nd was reaching for the sky, but I would have traded him for a 3rd.

As to your 2nd paragraph, I mostly agree. However, I would ask: Would you not agree that there are situations where having a RH takes faceoffs is a benefit. I am not saying that it has to be Glendening, but if you not him then who? Is that one reason alone enough to keep him? No. But its one more reason not to undersell. The next 2 years may be deep drafts, but I don't think they're that deep that a 5th rounder amounts to anything.

2 hours ago, lomekian said:

If KH got offered a 2nd for Glendening, he'd have been traded. Probably also if he'd been offered a 3rd & a 4th. For anything less than that, trading him would have been pointless and counter-productive. He's a 4th liner who is good on faceoffs, defensively responsible, scored 10+  goals and is on pace for a career year. He's also a guy who can look decent on a wing, and even fill in on the 3rd line in a push and not look hopeless. Also his cap hit isn't nearly as bad as people make out.

He's also the perfect example of the undrafted unwanted guy made good in the modern game, and as such is no bad thing as a sign-post.

Back on topic, it makes more sense to look at Hicketts at NHL than Hronek. Hronek we know will get looks at the NHL level, but we also know he's positionally poor at present. Hicketts for his limitations has been an all situations guy, did well in preseason, and is closer to his ceiling. So it makes more sense to look at him and see what we've got, in order to inform moves this summer. Hronek will like be on GR next year anyway due to his defensive shortcomings, so its less urgent to look at him.

Thanks. You kinda summed up in one paragraph what took me 2 long-winded posts to say.

[kipwinger 8,524]

On 3/30/2018 at 9:47 PM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

First bold: 5th round pick was the rumor. 

2nd Bold: He's not "valuable". He's just worth more than a 5th (If that is in fact what was offered.) Obviously a 2nd was reaching for the sky, but I would have traded him for a 3rd.

As to your 2nd paragraph, I mostly agree. However, I would ask: Would you not agree that there are situations where having a RH takes faceoffs is a benefit. I am not saying that it has to be Glendening, but if you not him then who? Is that one reason alone enough to keep him? No. But its one more reason not to undersell. The next 2 years may be deep drafts, but I don't think they're that deep that a 5th rounder amounts to anything.

 

Not really.  Any faceoff that's important enough to match up righty/lefty is important enough to send out your best FO guy, regardless of which hand he is.  In 2008 we were the best FO team in the league with Dats, Z, Filppula, and Draper.  All lefties.  I don't really think in the long run it matters much.  I realize that in some really particular instances you might want to win a FO to a particular spot, but over the course of the season I don't think that matters all that much. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

 

[marcaractac 3,963]

13 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 

Because f*** development, I guess

[LeftWinger 4,959]

because playoffs.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

Because f*** development, I guess

Meh, it's only a couple games. Both should be with the Wings full time to start next season. I say we should have sent them down a couple weeks ago to improve our lottery odds... Hopefully they can help the Griffins win another Calder Cup. I'm assuming Bertuzzi and Coreau will be sent down in the next week as well.

Edited April 4, 2018 by krsmith17