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Jonas Mahonas

Zetterberg HOF Worthy?

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3 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

A similar situation would have to take place for Osgood where it's a 'slow' year for more deserving HOF candidates.

Yah, Z has a ring, a Selke, and a Conn Smythe.  1000 pts + those SHOULD get him in after a while and on a "slow" year.

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Yah, Z has a ring, a Selke, and a Conn Smythe.  1000 pts + those SHOULD get him in after a while and on a "slow" year.

He doesn't have a Selke.  He will also have 7 or so years as captain and a stellar reputation working in his favor, though

Edited by barabbas16

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He'll get in eventually.  Not a strong selection, but I think he'll still make it.  As I've said before, there won't be too many 1,000 point players anymore.  I doubt they're going to stop inducting people into the HHOF twenty years from now just because players won't have that point total.

 

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3 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

He'll get in eventually.  Not a strong selection, but I think he'll still make it.  As I've said before, there won't be too many 1,000 point players anymore.  I doubt they're going to stop inducting people into the HHOF twenty years from now just because players won't have that point total.

 

I bet he makes it as a first ballot

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2 hours ago, kickazz said:

I bet he makes it as a first ballot

He honestly doesn't deserve that.  One postseason All-Star selection, one finish in the top 10 in goals.  Only two finishes in the top 10 in scoring.  Not many trophy nominations.    

He's got the Conn Smythe and a Gold Medal, and has had four finishes in the top 10 in assists, but I don't think he separated himself enough from his peers to deserve a first ballot HHOF induction.  Datsyuk is more likely to be a first ballot induction with his Selke and Lady Byng trophies, but even he ultimately doesn't deserve that.  

Edited by GMRwings1983

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2 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

He honestly doesn't deserve that.  One postseason All-Star selection, one finish in the top 10 in goals.  Only two finishes in the top 10 in scoring.  Not many trophy nominations.    

He's got the Conn Smythe and a Gold Medal, and has had four finishes in the top 10 in assists, but I don't think he separated himself enough from his peers to deserve a first ballot HHOF induction.  Datsyuk is more likely to be a first ballot induction with his Selke and Lady Byng trophies, but even he ultimately doesn't deserve that.  

I say first ballot because he won’t be retiring with Ovechkin, Crosby or other generation talent he played with. If you remove those players from his prime then all of a sudden he becomes a top 3 player ish. It’s a good thing Ovie and Crosby are fairly younger than him or else he’d have no chance.

Instead his competition will be the Sedins, Marleau, Datsyuk, Thornton. I imagine most of them will be eligible around the same year. I don’t anticipate any other big names retiring around the same time as Z aside from the guys I mentioned. Maybe Jagr? 

Between him, Sedins, Marleau, I say he gets the nod because of his Stanley Cup win and MVP trophy. Between Thornton, him and Datsyuk I’d say Joe and Pav have the edge for sure. If we’re lucky both him and D get in together in 2023 or 2024 (assuming they both quit Hockey around 2020)

Edited by kickazz

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8 hours ago, kickazz said:

I say first ballot because he won’t be retiring with Ovechkin, Crosby or other generation talent he played with. If you remove those players from his prime then all of a sudden he becomes a top 3 player ish. It’s a good thing Ovie and Crosby are fairly younger than him or else he’d have no chance.

Instead his competition will be the Sedins, Marleau, Datsyuk, Thornton. I imagine most of them will be eligible around the same year. I don’t anticipate any other big names retiring around the same time as Z aside from the guys I mentioned. Maybe Jagr? 

Between him, Sedins, Marleau, I say he gets the nod because of his Stanley Cup win and MVP trophy. Between Thornton, him and Datsyuk I’d say Joe and Pav have the edge for sure. If we’re lucky both him and D get in together in 2023 or 2024 (assuming they both quit Hockey around 2020)

The Sedins have never won a Cup, but their stats and individual accomplishments are not unimpressive.  

Henrik Sedin has won both the Hart trophy and an Art Ross.  He's had four top 10 finishes in points and eight top 10 finishes in assists.  Daniel Sedin also has an Art Ross and a Ted Lindsay award.  I've always rated him below his brother, but he's still getting in the HHOF as well (likely they'll get in together).  

Zetterberg to me is better than both of these players, but you never know how the voters will view things.  Zetterberg just doesn't have a lot of hardware.

Marleau is an accumulator.  He doesn't really belong in the HHOF, but will get in because of the era he played in.      

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46 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

The Sedins have never won a Cup, but their stats and individual accomplishments are not unimpressive.  

Henrik Sedin has won both the Hart trophy and an Art Ross.  He's had four top 10 finishes in points and eight top 10 finishes in assists.  Daniel Sedin also has an Art Ross and a Ted Lindsay award.  I've always rated him below his brother, but he's still getting in the HHOF as well (likely they'll get in together).  

Zetterberg to me is better than both of these players, but you never know how the voters will view things.  Zetterberg just doesn't have a lot of hardware.

Marleau is an accumulator.  He doesn't really belong in the HHOF, but will get in because of the era he played in.      

I agree. But I’m certain Zetterberg is more respected than all of the players mentioned (Marleau, Sedins, even Hossa if he’s up for it). Just by the way some of the big name guys on that voting staff have talked about him (Bowman, McKenzie etc). Z will likely win with the voters if it was between those guys. 

Edited by kickazz

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45 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

The Sedins have never won a Cup, but their stats and individual accomplishments are not unimpressive.  

Henrik Sedin has won both the Hart trophy and an Art Ross.  He's had four top 10 finishes in points and eight top 10 finishes in assists.  Daniel Sedin also has an Art Ross and a Ted Lindsay award.  I've always rated him below his brother, but he's still getting in the HHOF as well (likely they'll get in together).  

Zetterberg to me is better than both of these players, but you never know how the voters will view things.  Zetterberg just doesn't have a lot of hardware.

Marleau is an accumulator.  He doesn't really belong in the HHOF, but will get in because of the era he played in.      

Can I ask what you mean by that? I assume our are alluding to the fact that he played in an era where scoring wasn't so easy, but I'm not sure.

3 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I agree. But I’m certain Zetterberg is respected than all of the players mentioned. He’ll win by votes probably. 

Agreed, Z is held in very high regards among his peers.

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Who else who would be eligible at that time deserves to be inducted over him? Noone that I can think of. He'll get in the first year he's eligible. He's not going to be one of those guys who sits around year after year waiting to eventually get called. I think the voters will look at him as a guy who wasn't a Crosby, but he wasn't a Bure either. His competition won't be strong enough to keep him out.

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3 hours ago, kliq said:

Can I ask what you mean by that? I assume our are alluding to the fact that he played in an era where scoring wasn't so easy, but I'm not sure.

Agreed, Z is held in very high regards among his peers.

That and the fact that this era is far behind the prior generation of Hall of Famers who have been inducted in the last 5 to 10 years.  That was a unique era of great players from the 80's and the European players who came into the league in the 90's (minus Jagr).  

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15 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I'd love to see Hank in on a 1st ballot (would be nice to see Osgood inducted along with him), but there seems to be a list of others who might push Hank back a year, or two...

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/top-10-candidates-for-the-hall-of-fame-class-of-2018

Thats for 2018. St Louis, Alfredsson, Brodeur will be in before Z even retires. The rest of the guys are no competition for Z.

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Just now, kickazz said:

Thats for 2018. St Louis, Alfredsson, Brodeur will be in before Z even retires. The rest of the guys are no competition for Z.

Right, but my point is/was - there's a list of players who could be nominated over the next handful of seasons.

Who knows what the voters will select when Hank is eligible?

Would be nice he gets in with a few former teammates.

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3 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

That and the fact that this era is far behind the prior generation of Hall of Famers who have been inducted in the last 5 to 10 years.  That was a unique era of great players from the 80's and the European players who came into the league in the 90's (minus Jagr).  

What does that even mean though? I think I am about the same age as you, and I think the problem is that we look back on those players/times in such high regard because we grew up admiring them, plus the NHL at that time was better at making these guys in "stars". Its nostalgia.

Players now a days are stronger, faster, more agile, and pretty much more impressive across the board. Skill wise, the NHL has not gotten worse.

I will agree that it was a more entertaining time back then (ignorance is bliss right) but the evolution of the athlete does not trend down. Guys may appear to have been better back then, but that's only because they scored so much more due to small goalie equipment. If the goalies now a days dressed like the goalies in the 80's, guys would easily be scoring more then 150 points in a season, it would get out of hand

The one thing I will give that era is the skill set of their two outliers. Gretzky and Lemieux dominated the league unlike anyone even today. The gap between them any everyone else was significantly greater then the gap now a days between the Crosby's/Ovie's/McDavid's of the world and the rest of the league.

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