Some good news for Holland haters

[greene709 27]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/red-wings-ken-holland-among-possible-seattle-gm-candidates/

[Jasper84 333]

I'm not a Holland hater, but I also don't think he should be given a new contract as GM here. It is sad though, thinking that he could be going to another franchise. If he does, I wish him the best. Either way, it's time we see a new GM in Detroit. 

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

That's good news?  There's no confirmation there will be a Seattle franchise, and even if there is, it would be a few years before they'd actually get a team.

That means a few more years of Ken Holland.  He should step down after the season.

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

I think Ken Holland would be the perfect GM for the new Seattle expansion team. If so maybe he'll take one of his garbage contracts off our hands. At least that's what i'm hoping for maybe Abby or Nielsen to the rescue any ways it can't come soon enough for me.

[chaps80 1,591]

Holland probably already made a handshake deal to stay on as GM here until he croaks. They’ll turn  his office into a geriatric care home for him with his own PSW on hand 24/7.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

I think Holland going to a Seattle expansion would be really bad for us.

Remember how much staff Nill and Yzerman took with them when they jetted? This would be 100 times worse.

It's an expansion so they literally need to fill EVERY position. And Holland is a long-tenured GM, not an assistant GM. He has the clout to pull a lot of staff with him.

Losing Yzerman and Nill were both pretty big wounds for this franchise, letting Holland go to an expansion would turn Detroit into a shell organization.

When it's time for Holland to go, the best thing for the Red Wings will be if he retires, the worst will be him taking over an expansion franchise.

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I think Holland going to a Seattle expansion would be really bad for us.

Remember how much staff Nill and Yzerman took with them when they jetted? This would be 100 times worse.

It's an expansion so they literally need to fill EVERY position. And Holland is a long-tenured GM, not an assistant GM. He has the clout to pull a lot of staff with him.

Losing Yzerman and Nill were both pretty big wounds for this franchise, letting Holland go to an expansion would turn Detroit into a shell organization.

When it's time for Holland to go, the best thing for the Red Wings will be if he retires, the worst will be him taking over an expansion franchise.

 

What are you drinking?

[kickazz 5,459]

Holland would probably take most of our scouts including Hakan Andersson with him.

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, Hockeymom1960 said:

What are you drinking?

I don't have time to explain how corporate politics work, so I'll just remind you of the rules again since I see you're still struggling with those.

Quote

DO post constructively. If you can't add anything meaningful to a discussion, don't bother.

DON'T personally attack other members. This includes name-calling, flame-baiting, etc.. If you can't discuss your point with maturity then don't discuss it.

 

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

It’s time to clean this organization and bring in some new people with vision. The status quo has run its course and Holland and his boys need to leave.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

14 minutes ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

It’s time to clean this organization and bring in some new people with vision. The status quo has run its course and Holland and his boys need to leave.

For the record, I'm fine with Holland being replaced, it's the "and his boys" part I have a problem with.

Holland helped build and maintain one of the better scouting departments of the last 25+ years. Do we really wanna risk losing Hakan Andersson, Jiri Fischer, and countless other top scouts just to have Kris Draper as GM?

Let me remind everyone, the whole fresh voice grass is greener thing didn't work out with Blashill. In letting Holland march off to an expansion franchise, we'd have a lot more to lose than when Babcock marched off to Toronto.

Chris Illitch has to be smart about transitioning this team out of the Holland era. IMO Seattle is not the intelligent course of action.

[kickazz 5,459]

I'd rather keep Hakkan Andersson.

And I don't mind having Kris Draper as our next GM after reading some of the stuff he said. He's not similar to Holland at all. 

Kris Draper indirectly basically said he wants a tank job and wants Dahlin. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by kickazz

[chaps80 1,591]

Dahlin is already out of reach. Too bad Draper wasn’t GM earlier.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

11 hours ago, kickazz said:

Holland would probably take most of our scouts including Hakan Andersson with him.

 

Only the ones not under contract, and really, he can take Andersson.  Guy made some good finds, but his rep is built on stuff he did well over a decade ago.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, DickieDunn said:

Only the ones not under contract, and really, he can take Andersson.  Guy made some good finds, but his rep is built on stuff he did well over a decade ago.

Who do you have in mind to replace him?

[krsmith17 7,191]

12 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Dahlin is already out of reach. Too bad Draper wasn’t GM earlier.

Dahlin is not "out of reach". We may not have the best odds in the lottery, but like Philadelphia demonstrated in last year's draft, it's very possible to jump up several spots. Let's assume Arizona finish dead last, giving them an 18% chance at the number one pick. Pretty good odds, but that's also an 82% chance they don't get that pick. The way the lottery is set up, there's no guarantees. Right now, we have a 6.7% chance at Dahlin, and a 20.9% chance at a top 3 pick. If we sell hard at the deadline like we should be, we could slightly better those odds. I do want us to better our odds, but at the same time, I don't want to see us lose every single game remaining either.

Either way, I have a good feeling we'll jump up this year. Here's to hoping...

[Richdg 267]

Holland can go and take the entire front office with him. They as a group are the ones that have struck out on every big name UFA the last 7 years, had no plan for when Lidstrom etc... retired, and up until recently havent drafted well. Its time for a new front office. Could the new front office be worse? yes. They also could be better. Doing the same over and over and expecting a different result is.........

[13dangledangle 957]

I'm definitely not a Holland hater, but I do feel its time to move on.  I am however curious to what Chris Illitch is thinking here.  Surely you don't let a GM of Hollands stature walk without a plan, a plan that has to take into consideration who jumps ship with him when he goes.  I'm all for a total overhaul but ones that are a success like Toronto (that also took a long time to finally work out the way it did) are very rare, do these guys have the gusto to pull it off? 

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, Richdg said:

Holland can go and take the entire front office with him. They as a group are the ones that have struck out on every big name UFA the last 7 years, had no plan for when Lidstrom etc... retired, and up until recently havent drafted well. Its time for a new front office. Could the new front office be worse? yes. They also could be better. Doing the same over and over and expecting a different result is.........

Can you please clarify what you mean. Are you saying that haven't been able to land a big name free agent? (ie. they have struck out with all big names) Or are you saying that every big name free agent they brought in has been bad? (ie. they have struck out with you they chose to bring in)

[DickieDunn 2,571]

12 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Who do you have in mind to replace him?

I don't know, I don't work in the NHL so I don't know what scouts may or may not be available.  

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, Richdg said:

Holland can go and take the entire front office with him. They as a group are the ones that have struck out on every big name UFA the last 7 years, had no plan for when Lidstrom etc... retired, and up until recently havent drafted well. Its time for a new front office. Could the new front office be worse? yes. They also could be better. Doing the same over and over and expecting a different result is.........

So throw the baby out with the bathwater?? This is not Arizona, despite yours and some others knee jerk reactions to the last few seasons, this is still a pretty illustrious franchise. We still have scouts and staff other teams covet, and that includes Ken Holland. And you really wanna flush that all down the toilet cause you're team didn't make the playoffs for two seasons? You're not just reactionary, you're spoiled.

If Ken Holland entered the market tomorrow, he would be regarded with the same level of prestige that Lou Lamoriello got a few seasons ago. Teams needing to replace their GMs would be scrambling for him, despite what reputation he's gained on LGW...

I said I'm fine with replacing him, but I'm not an advocate of gutting the entire organization... Th Red Wings aren't even a basement team...

Which UFAs are you talking about? I'd love to tear apart your list.

 

4 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

I don't know, I don't work in the NHL so I don't know what scouts may or may not be available.  

So you have no clue what the market is on NHL scouts, but your fine with sacking the only NHL scout who has become a well known name in the NHL community? Yeah?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I look at results.  He made a name by finding a couple guys who turned out better than most people thought they were going to be over a decade ago.  Since then he hasn't done any better than most scouts.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

I look at results.  He made a name by finding a couple guys who turned out better than most people thought they were going to be over a decade ago.  Since then he hasn't done any better than most scouts.

Oh you do do you? What are these results you're talking about? Did Hakan submit to you his draft rankings? If so, please share.

[marcaractac 3,960]

Holland and his staff certainly hasn't done well is drafting defensemen

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Holland and his staff certainly hasn't done well is drafting defensemen

Nope, I find myself pointing this out all the time around here. Haven't drafted a top4 Dman since Kronwall. Forwards we've done pretty decent at actually. We need to trade staff with Nashville.