Karlsson on the move?

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

The comparison doesn't make sense when you consider Lidstrom wasn't hyped at all

So? The point is no one has been as hyped as Swedish fenom Rasmus Dahlin leading up to their draft year. I just included three of the best Swedish defensemen of the past 30 years. Why didn't you have a problem with me using Karlsson as a comparison? He wasn't all that hyped either leading up to his draft. No more than a Ryan Merkley or Rasmus Sandin (who?) this year. Karlsson went 15th overall, 7th defenseman taken in 2008.

I was comparing the hype all of the players I mentioned to the hype surrounding Dahlin leading up to this year's draft. I was not comparing Potvin to Lidstrom in any way...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

So? The point is no one has been as hyped as Swedish fenom Rasmus Dahlin leading up to their draft year. I just included three of the best Swedish defensemen of the past 30 years. Why didn't you have a problem with me using Karlsson as a comparison? He wasn't all that hyped either leading up to his draft. No more than a Ryan Merkley or Rasmus Sandin (who?) this year. Karlsson went 15th overall, 7th defenseman taken in 2008.

I was comparing the hype all of the players I mentioned to the hype surrounding Dahlin leading up to this year's draft. I was not comparing Potvin to Lidstrom in any way...

Bolded is my point. I don't care about Karlsson. 1st rounders all receive hype. 3rd rounders receive none, so there's not a point to argue.

To the bolded point, the logic doesn't make sense. It's literally apples to oranges. In the first sentence you establish that we are talking about the level of hype these players receive. Then in the second sentence you state, therefore I chose 3 of the best dmen. The parameters change from hype to best.. Comparisons occur between two things sharing the same quality, not two different things and two different qualities. An actual comparison would be: Comparing Dahlin's hype to the hype of the 3 most hyped players of all time (hype hype hype). Or the 3 most hyped Dmen of all tiome. Or the 3 most hyped Swedish Dmen of all time. Whatever. You get my point.

Anyways I dont care too much about this particular point in general, but this is why I was confused about Potvin and Lidstrom. It's a flawed comparison.

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Bolded is my point. I don't care about Karlsson. 1st rounders all receive hype. 3rd rounders receive none, so there's not a point to argue.

To the bolded point, the logic doesn't make sense. It's literally apples to oranges. In the first sentence you establish that we are talking about the level of hype these players receive. Then in the second sentence you state, therefore I chose 3 of the best dmen. The parameters change from hype to best.. Comparisons occur between two things sharing the same quality, not two different things and two different qualities. An actual comparison would be: Comparing Dahlin's hype to the hype of the 3 most hyped players of all time (hype hype hype). Or the 3 most hyped Dmen of all tiome. Or the 3 most hyped Swedish Dmen of all time. Whatever. You get my point.

Anyways I dont care too much about this particular point in general, but this is why I was confused about Potvin and Lidstrom. It's a flawed comparison.

Your original response was "Lidstrom is better than Potvin". There was no such comparison made by me. If I'm comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing apples to orangutans... Whatever though, I guess I should have never mentioned Lidstrom...

There has never been as much HYPE surrounding a draft eligible defenseman as there currently is with Rasmus Dahlin. Period. HYPE!

Fixed.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Last night, Paul Woods made a very interesting point with regards to Dahlin.  He said that you cannot believe all the hype you hear about these young players. He mentioned that if this kid is the hands down best defenseman that Sweden has, then why, in a tourney that has zero NHL caliber players, why has he only logged 4:36 of total icetime at the Olympics. He only played 1 game, and he only played 4:36 total. He was not saying he stinks or he may not be all the hype, but his point, and it was a very good one, was, if he is having some issues in the Olympics where there are no NHL players, then he may not be so NHL ready to lead a franchise because the NHL is the highest/fastest/best league in the world and even a kid with all that potential and hype still needs to learn the NHL game and learn how to play at its speed.  Again, not saying that he is not all that the hype is touting, but Woods really does have a good point. If he is hands down the best Swedish D-man, then why is there other Swedish D-men playing in every game in the Olympics and he was stuck at 1 game w/only 4:36 icetime?

Edited February 23, 2018 by LeftWinger

[Juklitz 85]

..and still recorded 1A in these four minutes.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Last night, Paul Woods made a very interesting point with regards to Dahlin.  He said that you cannot believe all the hype you hear about these young players. He mentioned that if this kid is the hands down best defenseman that Sweden has, then why, in a tourney that has zero NHL caliber players, why has he only logged 4:36 of total icetime at the Olympics. He only played 1 game, and he only played 4:36 total. He was not saying he stinks or he may not be all the hype, but his point, and it was a very good one, was, if he is having some issues in the Olympics where there are no NHL players, then he may not be so NHL ready to lead a franchise because the NHL is the highest/fastest/best league in the world and even a kid with all that potential and hype still needs to learn the NHL game and learn how to play at its speed.  Again, not saying that he is not all that the hype is touting, but Woods really does have a good point. If he is hands down the best Swedish D-man, then why is there other Swedish D-men playing in every game in the Olympics and he was stuck at 1 game w/only 4:36 icetime?

Undrafted players rarely ever play in the Olympics. Dahlin was the youngest player in the tournament at just 17 years old. Gronborg is an idiot for not playing him more than he did. He's been playing against men for the past couple years, and putting up spectacular numbers in a top 3 league in the world. No it's not the NHL, but he's definitely ready to step in and be an affective player for whatever team is lucky enough to land him. Paul Woods is an idiot for suggesting he may not be ready or overhyped or whatever he's saying...

[marcaractac 3,962]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Last night, Paul Woods made a very interesting point with regards to Dahlin.  He said that you cannot believe all the hype you hear about these young players. He mentioned that if this kid is the hands down best defenseman that Sweden has, then why, in a tourney that has zero NHL caliber players, why has he only logged 4:36 of total icetime at the Olympics. He only played 1 game, and he only played 4:36 total. He was not saying he stinks or he may not be all the hype, but his point, and it was a very good one, was, if he is having some issues in the Olympics where there are no NHL players, then he may not be so NHL ready to lead a franchise because the NHL is the highest/fastest/best league in the world and even a kid with all that potential and hype still needs to learn the NHL game and learn how to play at its speed.  Again, not saying that he is not all that the hype is touting, but Woods really does have a good point. If he is hands down the best Swedish D-man, then why is there other Swedish D-men playing in every game in the Olympics and he was stuck at 1 game w/only 4:36 icetime?

This is more coach not trusting a 17 year old than him not being ready. Sweden might still be in the tournament had Dahlin been playing the minutes he should have. 

[chaps80 1,591]

Dahlin apparantly defends like Lidstrom, skates like Karlsson. Great open ice hitter. But he’s only 185 lbs. better start packing on some muscle now if he wants to hit with the big boys.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I guess his point was if he we are to believe all the hype (I'm not saying its unwarranted) that he is ready to take over all the NHL records for D-men (much like KRS was saying about Hyped up more than Potvin BEFORE the draft) then why on Earth is he not playing 20-30 minutes in every game?

re: open ice hitter, if Dahlin IS all the hype, and will be Lidstrom/Karlsson hybrid machine, I really could care less if he open ice hits on my team.  I'll find a defense partner to do that stuff for him! If he bulks up too much in order to withstand the open ice hits with 225lb beasts, he may lose some of the skating ability.  I still take him #1, as I believe all 31 teams would as well, but Woodsy does bring up an interesting question.  And maybe it is just a egotistical coach who didn't want the Gold medal in the hands of 17 year old...shame on him!

[chaps80 1,591]

11 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I guess his point was if he we are to believe all the hype (I'm not saying its unwarranted) that he is ready to take over all the NHL records for D-men (much like KRS was saying about Hyped up more than Potvin BEFORE the draft) then why on Earth is he not playing 20-30 minutes in every game?

re: open ice hitter, if Dahlin IS all the hype, and will be Lidstrom/Karlsson hybrid machine, I really could care less if he open ice hits on my team.  I'll find a defense partner to do that stuff for him! If he bulks up too much in order to withstand the open ice hits with 225lb beasts, he may lose some of the skating ability.  I still take him #1, as I believe all 31 teams would as well, but Woodsy does bring up an interesting question.  And maybe it is just a egotistical coach who didn't want the Gold medal in the hands of 17 year old...shame on him!

No, the hitting thing isn’t a big deal, and bulking up may affect his skating, but with a smaller frame against the bigger guys, whoever drafts him should get him to move away from that part of his game somewhat. No need to go for hits if you don’t need to. If he’s a Lidstrom/Karlsson hybrid, he should be smart enough on the ice to be able to avoid them too. Lidstrom rarely got hit.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Your original response was "Lidstrom is better than Potvin". There was no such comparison made by me. If I'm comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing apples to orangutans... Whatever though, I guess I should have never mentioned Lidstrom...

There has never been as much HYPE surrounding a draft eligible defenseman as there currently is with Rasmus Dahlin. Period. HYPE!

Fixed.

Jesus you're defensive.

Yeah that's my point, it didn't make any sense at all to mention Lidstrom lol glad we can finally acknowledge that. Which is why I was confused as to what your original point on Potvin and the other players was....

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Jesus you're defensive.

Yeah that's my point, it didn't make any sense at all to mention Lidstrom lol glad we can finally acknowledge that. Which is why I was confused as to what your original point on Potvin and the other players was....

Where did I get defensive? I said I shouldn't have included Lidstrom... That's it.

Why did you say he is better than Potvin though? I never said or implied that he wasn't. That's what's confusing about this whole thing...

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Funny, Brutal article on the Sens:

http://nationalpost.com/sports/hockey/nhl/ottawa-senators/whole-situation-there-is-f-ed-up-unimaginable-months-ago-senators-might-trade-karlsson

Best line

"A team that was a goal away from reaching the 2016-17 Stanley Cup final has spent the past 12 months systematically destroying everything that was once good about the roster. A toddler kicking apart a sand castle has shown more restraint."

"Erik Karlsson, a defenceman so special that a year ago GM Pierre Dorion said God created him on the eighth day, could be gone in the next two days. In doing so, the Senators are in the process of robbing their fans of a two-time Norris Trophy winner who is not only regarded as the best defenceman in the NHL, but is arguably one of the top-three players, in general."

Not even Judas would have been this cruel."

Seems fare though. They do seem to be among the worst run teams in my opinion. Seems every worthwhile NHL player they draft is lost and they haven't been able to do much with the returns: Hossa, Zibanejad, Silfverberg, Spezza, Vermette, Havlat, Fischer, Kelly, and now Karlsson?

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Funny, Brutal article on the Sens:

http://nationalpost.com/sports/hockey/nhl/ottawa-senators/whole-situation-there-is-f-ed-up-unimaginable-months-ago-senators-might-trade-karlsson

Best line

"A team that was a goal away from reaching the 2016-17 Stanley Cup final has spent the past 12 months systematically destroying everything that was once good about the roster. A toddler kicking apart a sand castle has shown more restraint."

"Erik Karlsson, a defenceman so special that a year ago GM Pierre Dorion said God created him on the eighth day, could be gone in the next two days. In doing so, the Senators are in the process of robbing their fans of a two-time Norris Trophy winner who is not only regarded as the best defenceman in the NHL, but is arguably one of the top-three players, in general."

Not even Judas would have been this cruel."

Seems fare though. They do seem to be among the worst run teams in my opinion. Seems every worthwhile NHL player they draft is lost and they haven't been able to do much with the returns: Hossa, Zibanejad, Silfverberg, Spezza, Vermette, Havlat, Fischer, Kelly, and now Karlsson?

Dorion is made out to be the idiot, but he's only been the GM these past couple years, and as you mention, trading away very good players has been a common theme for many years in Ottawa. That common theme is Eugene Melnyk, who has been the owner for the past 15 years. I don't understand purchasing a sports team, if you're not willing to spend the money to build a contender. It makes no sense. I've said it before, but Melnyk is probably the worst owner in all of professional sports. From the way he runs the team, to the dumbass comments he makes to the media about his team / players. Guy's a f***ing moron.

[chaps80 1,591]

There's a gofundme account someone set up to cover the cost of putting up a huge billboard by the CTC telling cheap f*** Melnyk to get outta town. $5000 in donations in not even a day.

Hahaha

[chaps80 1,591]

9 hours ago, F.Michael said:

The modern day Sens reminds me of the Chicago Blackhawks from the mid 90's to the mid 00's.

'Dollar' Bill Wirtz went full-blown tard - got rid of their best players - went thru several coaches, and GMs, and became a f-ing laughing stock of the league.

THE BEST THING to happen for that Original 6 franchise was for Bill Wirtz to die.

Melnyk is heading in that very same direction.

Yeah. They made the Finals in '90 or '91. then Wirtz dismantled the roster bit by bit. He had Belfour and Hasek on that team at the same time, although Hasek didn't reach elite form until he was traded to Buffalo for a very s***ty goalie who's name I forget. But he had Belfour blocking his way no matter what. Both moved on and won Cups elsewhere. Pretty sure attendance for home games during that s***ty period was around 5000. Hawks "fans" went into hiding until they miraculously reappeared around 2008.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 2/23/2018 at 10:45 AM, krsmith17 said:

Where did I get defensive? I said I shouldn't have included Lidstrom... That's it.

Why did you say he is better than Potvin though? I never said or implied that he wasn't. That's what's confusing about this whole thing...

Now you're being defensive about being defensive

I think I've pretty well demonstrated why your comparison made no sense. That's why I was initially confused.  Do I really have to explain the connection between the two?

 

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

If these idiots really want to trade their franchise defenseman...makes me think, what is the asking price? How many picks, how good a prospect? What do you think? Could we even get in there?

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/613637

[LeftWinger 4,951]

57 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/613637

A few things, I am not sure those players going back would get the trade done, PLUS I believe that is too many 1sts to give up.

Do you really think that our RFA's are going to get that big of a raise? I am thinking for of along $3.5M for each...I could be wrong.  My thinking is, $3.5M is what AA was looking for last summer, and Larkin and Mantha are both coming off ELC's. Also Kronwall probably won't be traded, but I can see a team like Arizona taking Franzen's contract to meet the cap floor.

...but if we got BOTH Karlsson and Tavares and were still able to keep AA, Larkin and Mantha, our rebuild is over!

Instead of 2019 and 2020 1st, how about the 2018 1st we just got from Vegas and the 2020 1st? I want to keep that 2019 in case we are bad again next season we can land Jack Hughes.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

...we'd have to make the deal for Karlsson at the draft, so Tavares can see it and it gives him a bit more incentive to come here! 

Draft Dahlin (it aint over until it over!!!) right before we are called to pick our next 1st rounbd choice, we make the deal:

"We have a trade to announce!"

to OTT : 2018 1st round via Vegas, 2020 1st round, 2019 4th, 2020 3rd, Gus Nyquist, Dennis Cholowski

to DET : Erik Karlsson

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

Yeah, that was just a start for discussing it. I like the idea just for the fact that getting Karlsson is the absolute best argument we can possibly create, to lure Tavares.

The exact details are debatable, like terms for our RFAs/ who do we ship out/ what pick might get it done with Arizona to take on a contract (maybe that 5th isnt even necessary?). My thought on Kronwall was that it might be easier to find a taker for him than for Franzen, because it's an expiring contract.

BTW...it is that many 1sts, because I don't wanna send impact players (read: Larkin, Mantha, AA).

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

One more problem, but that's not possible to simulate with that tool (or I haven't found how to): That trade needs an extension for Karlsson, ofc. That same 80/8 I calculated for Tavares.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

The most JT could sign for is 7 years coming to a new team, so you may have to give him $11M to bring him closer to $80M. I honestly don't think it'll take $10M to secure EK, but if we had the cap, it would sure please him I'd imagine!

 

[LeftWinger 4,951]

This is fun! I traded Jimmy and signed Mrazek after Philly doesn't qualify him! Its all for fun anyhow!

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by LeftWinger