Karlsson on the move?

[LeftWinger 4,934]

Sorry, deleting my attachments, I have run out of room!

Edited March 14, 2018 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 4,934]

I don't expect to get Mrazek here at $2.5M, probably not at all!

But I ran out of money when I gave Green the $4M! 

So I traded Jimmy. I know he won't bring back a 1st, even if its conditional. I don't really care what the return is, he'll hace no NTC so I'd send him anywhere! As long as I don't have to retain any salary!

But once we trade for EK at the draft, who knows who will come knocking on our UFA door!

Edited February 28, 2018 by LeftWinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

36 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

This is fun! I traded Jimmy and signed Mrazek after Philly doesn't qualify him! Its all for fun anyhow!

 

Interesting. I see Howard is valued as a 1st, possibly a 2nd with lottery protection. But Mrazek was a 4th, possibly a 3rd or 2nd with playoff performance.

I wonder which goalie is better

[LeftWinger 4,934]

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Interesting. I see Howard is valued as a 1st, possibly a 2nd with lottery protection. But Mrazek was a 4th, possibly a 3rd or 2nd with playoff performance.

I wonder which goalie is better

Well when I made the exchange, I was valuing him at the 2019 TDL, but then after it was all done, I realized, duh, if I am to even try to lure Mrazek back, I cannot have Jimmy on the roster come July...oh well, my bad, the only thing that may happen on that is Green at $4M anyhow, its all just nuts and berries so it really doesn't matter. But if you look at my post right above yours, I do say that he won't bring back a 1st, so I don't realty care the return, just send him wherever for whatever.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Well when I made the exchange, I was valuing him at the 2019 TDL, but then after it was all done, I realized, duh, if I am to even try to lure Mrazek back, I cannot have Jimmy on the roster come July...oh well, my bad, the only thing that may happen on that is Green at $4M anyhow, its all just nuts and berries so it really doesn't matter. But if you look at my post right above yours, I do say that he won't bring back a 1st, so I don't realty care the return, just send him wherever for whatever.

It's all very interesting lol

[LeftWinger 4,934]

7 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It's all very interesting lol

It is! But like I said, the only thing that has even a remote chance of happening the way I proposed is Green re-signing at $4M....and Holland still may give him more!

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

Back to my starting point...what's the price for EK, most likely?

McDonagh brought two prospects + 1st + cond. 2nd (Namestnikov vs Miller is pretty much even).

[LeftWinger 4,934]

9 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

Back to my starting point...what's the price for EK, most likely?

McDonagh brought two prospects + 1st + cond. 2nd (Namestnikov vs Miller is pretty much even).

I would say that you weren't that far off.

I still had two 1sts, but to sweetin in up one of them was this years from Vegas and the other was 2020. I still think we'll be a lottery team in 2019, so I don't want to miss out on a chance at Hughes. I gave a 4th in 19 and a 3rd in 2020 along with Nyquist and Cholowski.  I would that would get the deal made.

OTT gets: 1st in 2018 (VGK), 1st in 2020, 4th in 2019, 3rd in 2020, Nyquist and Cholowski

DET gets: Karlsson, immediately extended 8 yrs. $72M (Swedish Don Discount!)

 

Ugh, of course Gus has a full NTC, so he'd probably reject a deal to Ottawa.

Edited February 28, 2018 by LeftWinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, LeftWinger said:

It is! But like I said, the only thing that has even a remote chance of happening the way I proposed is Green re-signing at $4M....and Holland still may give him more!

I actually think he may take even less. Here me out. Green has been pretty upfront about wanting to be in Detroit with his family for the foreseeable future. That he loves it here. And the rumor throughout the deadline was he only approved two teams for trade (Washington and Tampa) and blocked a deal to Toronto. The man is clearly demonstrating that he wants to stay here.

Try to get him in on one of those Detroit discounts we used to talk/joke about players taking to play here. 5 years at 3 million? 15 million evaluation to finish his career... not much different than say 4 mil for 3 years, then 2 more years at 1.5. Again a 15 year evaluation, but obviously you're committing to term in exchange for 1 mil in cap saving. Maybe he even takes less for that term and an NTC, who knows?

[krsmith17 7,191]

 

9 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

Back to my starting point...what's the price for EK, most likely?

McDonagh brought two prospects + 1st + cond. 2nd (Namestnikov vs Miller is pretty much even).

Any deal for Karlsson starts with Larkin. Add in Hronek, our 2018 (not Vegas') and 2019 first round picks, along with a 2nd in one of those years and you might get their attention. You're not going to get him with a couple firsts, thirds and mid tier prospects. Not going to happen. A trade for Karlsson is going to take high end roster players / prospects / picks. Two teams that were heavy in talks with Ottawa were Tampa and Vegas, because they both have a surplus of at least 2 of 3 of these things. We don't. Trading for Karlsson, who is a pending UFA would be a terrible move for this team right now.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I actually think he may take even less. Here me out. Green has been pretty upfront about wanting to be in Detroit with his family for the foreseeable future. That he loves it here. And the rumor throughout the deadline was he only approved two teams for trade (Washington and Tampa) and blocked a deal to Toronto. The man is clearly demonstrating that he wants to stay here.

Try to get him in on one of those Detroit discounts we used to talk/joke about players taking to play here. 5 years at 3 million? 15 million evaluation to finish his career... not much different than say 4 mil for 3 years, then 2 more years at 1.5. Again a 15 year evaluation, but obviously you're committing to term in exchange for 1 mil in cap saving. Maybe he even takes less for that term and an NTC, who knows?

I like it! That'd be even better! Especially if Holland(or whomever is GM, it'll prolly be Holland) sits down and says, "hey we are going to try and acquire Karlsson PLUS we could very well put a great offer in for Tavares. What is your bottom line to come back if we land Karlsson at the draft?"

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

13 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I would say that you weren't that far off.

I still had two 1sts, but to sweetin in up one of them was this years from Vegas and the other was 2020. I still think we'll be a lottery team in 2019, so I don't want to miss out on a chance at Hughes. I gave a 4th in 19 and a 3rd in 2020 along with Nyquist and Cholowski.  I would that would get the deal made.

OTT gets: 1st in 2018 (VGK), 1st in 2020, 4th in 2019, 3rd in 2020, Nyquist and Cholowski

DET gets: Karlsson, immediately extended 8 yrs. $72M (Swedish Don Discount!)

 

Ugh, of course Gus has a full NTC, so he'd probably reject a deal to Ottawa.

I had 1st in 19, 1st in 21, 3rd in 19, 3rd in 21, Nyquist and Hickets (who i would prefer to keep, if possible) - so thats pretty much even.

But, I didn't see that it is a full NTC on Gus..

Depends what they want..they might think Gus is crap and not want him anyway.

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 

Any deal for Karlsson starts with Larkin. Add in Hronek, our 2018 (not Vegas') and 2019 first round picks, along with a 2nd in one of those years and you might get their attention. You're not going to get him with a couple firsts, thirds and mid tier prospects. Not going to happen. A trade for Karlsson is going to take high end roster players / prospects / picks. Two teams that were heavy in talks with Ottawa were Tampa and Vegas, because they both have a surplus of at least 2 of 3 of these things. We don't. Trading for Karlsson, who is a pending UFA would be a terrible move for this team right now.

Oh, we'll see. Because one aspect about all this is...he won't re-sign with the Sens now, I guess. And the rest of the league knows that. Nobody is going to throw them someone like Larkin, no way. And where is their leverage? None. The risk to have him walk without proper compensation will increase with every month passing, from now on.

They better take those picks.

Edited February 28, 2018 by The Datsyukian Deke

[LeftWinger 4,934]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 

Any deal for Karlsson starts with Larkin. Add in Hronek, our 2018 (not Vegas') and 2019 first round picks, along with a 2nd in one of those years and you might get their attention. You're not going to get him with a couple firsts, thirds and mid tier prospects. Not going to happen. A trade for Karlsson is going to take high end roster players / prospects / picks. Two teams that were heavy in talks with Ottawa were Tampa and Vegas, because they both have a surplus of at least 2 of 3 of these things. We don't. Trading for Karlsson, who is a pending UFA would be a terrible move for this team right now.

Well, IMO, even EK is NOT worth giving up two lottery picks PLUS Larkin and high 2nds.

I am not so sure than any team would give up TWO lottery picks plus the rest. 2020 1st could still be a lottery for us, plus the 20-31st pick this year is a very good pick in a deep draft. Cholowski is a 1st round pick, plus he is considered a top prospect, the 3rd and 4th extras.  The sticking point is the roster player, I am sure Nyquist would not waive to got to Ottawa, but there is nobody else they'd want or I'd offer along with 2 great 1st round picks.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

5 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

I had 1st in 19, 1st in 21, 3rd in 19, 3rd in 21, Nyquist and Hickets (who i would prefer to keep, if possible) - so thats pretty much even.

But, I didn't see that it is a full NTC on Gus..

Depends what they want..they might think Gus is crap and not want him anyway.

Oh, we'll see. Because one aspect about all this is now...he won't re-sign with the Sens now, I guess. And the rest of the League knows that. Nobody is going to throw them someone like Larkin, no way. And where is their leverage? None. The risk to have him walk without proper compensation will increase with every month passing, from now on.

They better take those picks.

And even the Insiders on TSN all agree that his value was its highest yesterday, because a team would get TWO playoff runs with him.  Trade for him at the draft and you're only guaranteed one year with him, a teams like Tampa and Vegas are now out because they already gave up a ton for who they acquired. They still won't want to pillage their NHL rosters, any other Cup contender would feel the same. So really, Ottawa is looking at just getting picks/prospects from any team like those. Any other team who can give up roster players may not have the chance to re-sign him after one year.  I believe that there may be 2-3 teams that have a good shot at re-signing him if they trade for him, and we are surely near the top of that considering his relationship with The Don and the cap space we will have available to do so.

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

I'm not too familiar with the CBA rules in the NHL..can you extend him at the same time? When you trade for him? Or not?

If you can, what's the point? You only make the deal IF he signs the extension, too. I wouldnt trade multiple firsts + X for a rental, that's hilarious.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

Unfortunately, we have to remember than Melnyk will want whoever gets EK to also take Bobby Ryan's contract. So that will be a big huge sticking point. Karlsson may end up in Arizona because they could afford to pick up both contracts. But who would they send back. I still don't think they'd send back two consecutive lottery picks, but 2 1st's, Domi, Chychrun, and a couple of more picks. They would sure have a pretty good Swedish D-Line with Karlsson, OEL and Hjalmarsson back there.

[krsmith17 7,191]

17 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

Oh, we'll see. Because one aspect about all this is...he won't re-sign with the Sens now, I guess. And the rest of the league knows that. Nobody is going to throw them someone like Larkin, no way. And where is their leverage? None. The risk to have him walk without proper compensation will increase with every month passing, from now on.

They better take those picks.

I don't think he'll re-sign with the Sens, but there's still a chance he can. They have all the leverage until after next year's deadline (he'll likely be traded before then), and anyone trading for him will have to give up a TON. If he is traded, it's not going to be for a couple picks and spare parts.

Regardless, trading for Karlsson would be a huge mistake in my opinion. We're trying to rebuild, and it while it would fill a massive hole on defense, it wouldn't create many more holes in other areas. If we really want Karlsson, we should wait until he hits free agency in 2019. 

[LeftWinger 4,934]

10 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

I'm not too familiar with the CBA rules in the NHL..can you extend him at the same time? When you trade for him? Or not?

If you can, what's the point? You only make the deal IF he signs the extension, too. I wouldnt trade multiple firsts + X for a rental, that's hilarious.

One year prior to becoming a UFA if you are the team that owns him. Example, Last July 1,2017, Cam Fowler signed a contract extension to take affect starting July 1 2018. Even though he had one full year left on his previous contract. So if someone traded for EK at the draft or June 30th, 2018, they could negotiate and come July 1 2018, he could sign an 8 year extension to take affect July 1 2019.The negative possible impact, is a player having a career ending injury (or incurable one like Franzen) during his last year of previous contract. Now the team is on the books with him for the next 8 years with the hefty cap hit!

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

@krsmith17: You really want to rebuild like, let's say, the Sixers? Or the Oilers? Miss the playoffs for 4-5 years?

That should always be your last option, you only do that if you couldnt find a better way in the meantime. Like, trade for your franchise 1 D and sign your 1 C at the same time. IF that is possible, do it.

Edited February 28, 2018 by The Datsyukian Deke

[LeftWinger 4,934]

8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think he'll re-sign with the Sens, but there's still a chance he can. They have all the leverage until after next year's deadline (he'll likely be traded before then), and anyone trading for him will have to give up a TON. If he is traded, it's not going to be for a couple picks and spare parts.

Regardless, trading for Karlsson would be a huge mistake in my opinion. We're trying to rebuild, and it while it would fill a massive hole on defense, it wouldn't create many more holes in other areas. If we really want Karlsson, we should wait until he hits free agency in 2019. 

...as much as I dislike Nyquist, I really don't think he is considered spare parts. He should have just as much value in return as Tatar did, maybe a bit less considering a last minute TDL offer from VGK. Cholowski is a top prospect and TWO 1sts, one in the 20's in this years very deep draft and one quite possibly a lottery in 2020 is nothing to snub your nose at. Plus a couple of extra picks to sweetin it up.

But again, I think there is no way Holland would want to pick up Ryan's contract with it, so I do think a trade is out of the question.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

...and it is also very important to say again, the TSN guys said that EK's value was at its highest yesterday, because a team would actually get TWO playoff years with him.  Ottawa still may ask for a King's ransom, but they won't get as much as they could've gotten yesterday.  Also that whole Bobby Ryan thing, that really put a monkey wrench in the whole thing! And will continue to!

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

The more time runs by, the more Melnyk can forget about anybody taking on Ryan. Even Arizona can't help, Karlsson can submit a 10-team no-trade list.

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

@krsmith17: You really want to rebuild like, let's say, the Sixers? Or the Oilers? Miss the playoffs for 4-5 years?

That should always be your last option, you only do that if you couldnt find a better way in the meantime. Like, trade for your franchise 1 D and sign your 1 C at the same time. IF that is possible, do it.

The Oilers are an extreme example, and no I don't want to "rebuild like the Oilers"... I never said anything about missing the playoffs next year, let alone 4-5 years... The best way to build this team up again, is a combination of high draft picks, savvy trades, and free agent signings. You don't put all your eggs in the Erik Karlsson basket. I wouldn't do it, and fortunately for me (us) Ken Holland wouldn't either.

Holland will play it smart, continue to draft and develop (his biggest strength), and make a hard push for Karlsson in free agency when (if) he hits in a year and a half.

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

Well, if we don't improve significantly, we'll miss again next year, making it 3 years out. And who guarantess we hit on that free agent? Have we, recently? I don't think so. Trading for and extending one big time player might be what we need to get another. And then you could build around them. The Sens idiocy might be the best that could happen (ok, many other teams will think exactly the same).

Would it cost a hefty price? For sure it will. But I think it would be worth it. Two cornerstones who are 27 right now (yes, Karlsson doesnt guarantee getting Tavares, I know that), where else do you get those? Develop them yourself? That'll take even more years to get our talent to that level.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

Think about this, we get him for a modest ransom, at the draft, he is under contract for a year, if for some reason the GM doesn't get a good feeling of being able to re-sign him, imagine the return WE'D get come TDL 2019 for Erik Karlsson!