amato 3,210 Report post Posted February 27, 2018 With all the talk of cap space and Larkin, Mantha, & AA needing new contracts, I thought their next contracts would make for a good discussion. What do you think these guys will get? All bridge deals? Could you see any taking less money to sign a longer term? I don’t think they’re quite at the point of getting big long term contracts, since they’re all RFA, but I guess ya never know. I would say probably bridge deals for all three but it’d be awesome if we could somehow manage to lock at least one up to a team friendly long term contract, of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadyRedWing 1 Report post Posted February 27, 2018 I don't know how they would feel about it, but I can say this much Id take less to have security on the team that I wanna be on . I think Larkin might, but I am not too sure about AA, I think Mantha could possibly. but we will have to see towards summer time what happens with all this - there are going to be some changes with those draft picks - we may get one possibly two that are NHL ready. At this point I believe it is a wait and see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckbags 863 Report post Posted February 27, 2018 I say all 3 go to arbitration because to be quite honest I think they all think they are worth more than they actually are. Mantha might be the only one with the stats to back up an arbitration win. AA - 2.5 Mantha - 4. 0 Larkin - 4. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) I say they all get bridge deals: All three at 3yrs $3.5M per. of course all with bonus clauses! Edited February 28, 2018 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Datsyukian Deke 127 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 No way Larkin signs for less than that ridiculous Abby deal. Hell, 3.5 would be even less than Helm makes. That's insulting. 1 rwing reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 958 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 This is the part that scares me. Holland notoriously hands out ridiculous contracts, these three players are all deserving though so we'll see. Id hope to see bridge deals with AA and Mantha and I imagine it'll be around the 4-4.5 range for Mantha and 3.5-4 for AA. If in fact Larkin is going to be the next captain then he will more then likely sign a long term deal in the 5-6 range Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 59 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said: No way Larkin signs for less than that ridiculous Abby deal. Hell, 3.5 would be even less than Helm makes. That's insulting. Come on... The difference between RFA and UFA contracts has been explained time and time again. They're not comparable. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Datsyukian Deke said: No way Larkin signs for less than that ridiculous Abby deal. Hell, 3.5 would be even less than Helm makes. That's insulting. Yes, but he is coming off an ELC, that does make a difference. I know he is leading the team in scoring, but unless you are the Edmonton Oilers, most teams don't hand out huge deals right after the ELC. McDavid and Mathews are the exception to that rule. I still think Edmonton blew their load too early giving McDavid $12.5M AAV. With all those $6M+ players and $4M+ D-men next year they only have $12M cap available with only 15 players signed. It's no wonder they are trying to dump RNH. He was another on that went from a sub-$1M ELC to $6M. Edmonton has horrible management! You have to have bridge deals, that way you aren't forced to dump these players before their prime! To continue on the Oilers, there is no way Draisaitl should've gone from $925K to $8.5M! I don't care how good he did last year, they all benefited from McDavid and Lucic. What are they going to give Nurse? He is an RFA this summer. They gave Klefbom $4.1M after his ELC, so I imagine Nurse will get similar or more. They are going to be in cap hell next season. I'll bring the popcorn! I am glad Holland hasn't done this. Edited February 28, 2018 by LeftWinger 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Son of a Wing said: Come on... The difference between RFA and UFA contracts has been explained time and time again. They're not comparable. Not directed at Datsyukian Deke, but it seems some things (this being one of them) have to be repeated over and over and over again, and it still doesn't sink in with some people... 2 Son of a Wing and amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, 13dangledangle said: This is the part that scares me. Holland notoriously hands out ridiculous contracts, these three players are all deserving though so we'll see. Id hope to see bridge deals with AA and Mantha and I imagine it'll be around the 4-4.5 range for Mantha and 3.5-4 for AA. If in fact Larkin is going to be the next captain then he will more then likely sign a long term deal in the 5-6 range Holland overpays for pending UFAs because he has no leverage and he overvalues his own guys. Larkin, Mantua, and AA are all RFAs. He actually does well with contracts he controls. I wouldn't worry about those contracts. 3 krsmith17, 13dangledangle and amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 958 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: Holland overpays for pending UFAs because he has no leverage and he overvalues his own guys. Larkin, Mantua, and AA are all RFAs. He actually does well with contracts he controls. I wouldn't worry about those contracts. This is very true, if any of them go long term I hope it's Larkin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 Granted AA is not on an ELC, this one year deal could be considered a bridge, but he really isn't doing much better than last season, so I really cannot see him justifying anything more than he wanted then, which was rumored to be around $3.5M. He is putting up similar #'s to Gus, so maybe he gets past $4M, but I hope they all get around $3.5M for 3 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Datsyukian Deke 127 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Not directed at Datsyukian Deke, but it seems some things (this being one of them) have to be repeated over and over and over again, and it still doesn't sink in with some people... What doesn't sink in, at least with me, is the gap between youngsters (especially Larkin) that I think are actually deserving big money, and the money Holland throws at 3rd line talent like Abby. UFA or not, you need to have some sort of salary structure which for the most part reflects the actual performance of the players. Leading players in terms of salary not being leaders in terms of production...that's not a good thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 I'd try to get Larkin locked up long term. I'd consider doing the same with Mantha as well, but I'd probably opt to sign Mantha and Athanasiou to bridge contracts or maybe something in between... Larkin - 6-8 years at around $5-6M. Mantha and Athanasiou - 4-6 years at $4-5M OR 2-3 years at $3-4M This is one area I have full confidence in Holland. I'm sure whatever he decides on these guys, it'll be reasonable contracts. I'd definitely prefer a longer contract for Larkin though. 2 kliq and amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 I just think that none of them want to be stuck in a long contract making less than they should. Signing Larkin for 8 years at $5M seems high now for his first deal after his ELC, and in 4 years when he is (projecting here) scoring 70-90 points per season, it will be a steal. BUT if he feels he may get to that level in 4 years, would he sign that deal or only do a 3 year in hopes that he is netting 70-90 by then and he could actually get upwards of $9M, on the low side. Especially the way contracts are now for 80 point players. I would think same would apply to Mantha and AA. Sure they'd want a fair amount now, but would they want that same amount 6 years from now? I think they'd take the lessor bridge deal and then get PAID come 3 years from July! I think the modest bridge deal is a win win for both player and management. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) I'm stingy and I think Holland is too. And I think he can get this done. Larkin $4 million x 4 years AA and Mantha $3 million x 3 years. Edited February 28, 2018 by kickazz 2 13dangledangle and Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 958 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, kickazz said: I'm stingy and I think Holland is too. And I think he can get this done. Larkin $4 million x 4 years AA and Mantha $3 million x 3 years. I hope you're right! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 8 hours ago, krsmith17 said: I'd try to get Larkin locked up long term. I'd consider doing the same with Mantha as well, but I'd probably opt to sign Mantha and Athanasiou to bridge contracts or maybe something in between... Larkin - 6-8 years at around $5-6M. Mantha and Athanasiou - 4-6 years at $4-5M OR 2-3 years at $3-4M This is one area I have full confidence in Holland. I'm sure whatever he decides on these guys, it'll be reasonable contracts. I'd definitely prefer a longer contract for Larkin though. Larkin at 8 x 5mill would be incredible even just a couple years down the line. I would be stoked if we signed him to that. If the difference for Mantha were 4x4m or 6x5m, I’d try my best to get the extra years. I think AA will get a bridge deal though.. something like 3x3m, give or take 500k per year avg. All of that would be around a 13 mill cap hit. Which would give us around 8 mill more to take care of other RFAs and offer Green a smaller contract, if I’m reading cap friendly correctly. Sounds doable. 7 hours ago, kickazz said: I'm stingy and I think Holland is too. And I think he can get this done. Larkin $4 million x 4 years AA and Mantha $3 million x 3 years. This would also be acceptable. Although I’d fear what they’d want on their next deals, I’d understand them wanting shorter deals to cash in a few years down the line. 2 Rick D and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, amato said: This would also be acceptable. Although I’d fear what they’d want on their next deals, I’d understand them wanting shorter deals to cash in a few years down the line. Which would be okay since most of our contracts would be coming off the books and the cap will likely be higher league wide. Larkin is having a good season after having a bad one last year. I don’t think someone deserves an 8 year contract without having proven consistency. Would have been different had he not had a bad 2nd half in his first year and a below average season last year. Nyquist produced a 27 and a 28 goal season and we gave him a 4 year deal. Literaly one year into that deal he stopped earning it.. Toews is another example, although at least he had some cups under his belt earning him that contract. Cant blindly hand off long term deals in the NHL these days. I think Holland knows this and gives him a bridge deal (a 4 year one) Edited February 28, 2018 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,962 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 Lock Larkin in for 8 years. Contract would turn into a steal in a couple years. Bridge deals lead to a big contract where you overpay for a declining player. Let's avoid that. Bridge deals for AA and Mantha are more reasonable, as they still have more to prove in terms of putting in the effort night in and night out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, kickazz said: Which would be okay since most of our contracts would be coming off the books and the cap will likely be higher league wide. Larkin is having a good season after having a bad one last year. I don’t think someone deserves an 8 year contract without having proven consistency. Would have been different had he not had a bad 2nd half in his first year and a below average season last year. Nyquist produced a 27 and a 28 goal season and we gave him a 4 year deal. Literaly one year into that deal he stopped earning it.. Toews is another example, although at least he had some cups under his belt earning him that contract. Cant blindly hand off long term deals in the NHL these days. I get the logic for sure, and I wouldn’t complain about a bridge deal for him. But, even if Larkin only turned into an okay 2nd line center, 5 mill/year would be fine. It’s a little bit of a gamble to give him 8 years, sure. But it’s a little more of a calculated gamble than just blindly handing off a long term deal, imo. I don’t completely disagree with you though. I just think 8x5 for Larkin would have a much better chance of paying off BIG even just a few years down the line (and look like a steal eventually) than it does looking like a mistake. But, he may just prefer a bridge deal anyway; which would make it a moot point. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 Just now, amato said: I get the logic for sure, and I wouldn’t complain about a bridge deal for him. But, even if Larkin only turned into an okay 2nd line center, 5 mill/year would be fine. It’s a little bit of a gamble to give him 8 years, sure. But it’s a little more of a calculated gamble than just blindly handing off a long term deal, imo. I don’t completely disagree with you though. I just think 8x5 for Larkin would have a much better chance of paying off BIG even just a few years down the line (and look like a steal eventually) than it does looking like a mistake. But, he may just prefer a bridge deal anyway; which would make it a moot point. Yeah I think he’s going to want a bridge deal and get a better contract later on. Unless he was given a McDavid or Eichel contract today; which I’m sure he takes no questions asked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, kickazz said: Yeah I think he’s going to want a bridge deal and get a better contract later on. Unless he was given a McDavid or Eichel contract today; which I’m sure he takes no questions asked. Agreed. And yeah, a McDavid/Eichel level contract is not what I had in mind with 8 years. The 8 years was simply to make it a very team friendly contract down the line. I would be very upset if we gave him 10+ for 8 years haha. Even much more than 5 mill per and I’d be skeptical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 7 or 8 year deals are for guys at the elite level. Larkin isnt. Even if he was signed to that kind of deal, you would have to pay a steep price initially in order to get value later on. I don't know if I am comfortable yet with signing him to that kind of contract. I wouldn't go more than 5 years. Edited February 28, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,962 Report post Posted February 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: 7 or 8 year deals are for guys at the elite level. Larkin isnt. Even if he was signed to that kind of deal, you would have to pay a steep price initially in order to get value later on. I don't know if I am comfortable yet with signing him to that kind of contract. I wouldn't go more than 5 years. Larkin has the drive, work ethic, and skill to be a core player on this team for a long time. If he ends up on a bridge deal now, he'll end up making big money in his 30s. An 8 year deal for him now would also mean having him on a lower cap hit in his prime years instead of having him on too high of a cap hit in his 30s. 8 years is the obvious route for Larkin IMO. He's only gonna keep getting better. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
