Bad Fans?

[Jasper84 333]

This is mostly about me, but I'm sure lots of others relate.

I've always considered myself to be a huge Wings fan, I haven't missed a game in I don't even remember how long. Even this season, I still have every game on tv, but it's mostly background to me working on more productive things. Where I feel dirty, is I want the Wings to score, but I want them to score 1 less than the opposition. I understand that short term suckage = long term success, but does that make me (and others like me) a bad fan?

I just want that #1 OA pick damnit!!!

[barabbas16 499]

I don't think it makes you a bad fan.  It's just a bad system, in my opinion.  It's set up to encourage losing for the bottom third (or so) of the league.  I disagree with it ("YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME! HELLO!?"), but it's how it is and we certainly have no effect on that.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

I'm just apathetic right now and hope we get the #1 pick and start over next season.

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

42 minutes ago, Jasper84 said:

This is mostly about me, but I'm sure lots of others relate.

I've always considered myself to be a huge Wings fan, I haven't missed a game in I don't even remember how long. Even this season, I still have every game on tv, but it's mostly background to me working on more productive things. Where I feel dirty, is I want the Wings to score, but I want them to score 1 less than the opposition. I understand that short term suckage = long term success, but does that make me (and others like me) a bad fan?

I just want that #1 OA pick damnit!!!

I hear ya man. I'm in the same boat. I still don't miss a game. Like you, I honestly don't remember the last time I've missed a game. 5+ years for sure. But rooting for losses just feels dirty. My mindset during games is for the kids (Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, Svechnikov) to do well, and the vets (aside from Zetterberg) to do poorly, as stupid as that may sound... I hope we lose 4-3 / 5-4 every game, with the kids getting all the goals...

26 minutes ago, barabbas16 said:

I don't think it makes you a bad fan.  It's just a bad system, in my opinion.  It's set up to encourage losing for the bottom third (or so) of the league.  I disagree with it ("YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME! HELLO!?"), but it's how it is and we certainly have no effect on that.

I agree with this. I'd like to see a system implemented in which teams benefit from winning, not losing. How that would work, I have no idea... Maybe the team with the best record post trade deadline that misses the playoffs gets the first overall pick, and so on. No more draft lottery. It would definitely prevent teams from tanking and trading off a bunch of players every trade deadline. It would make the trade deadline a lot less interesting and free agency a lot more interesting. Teams would probably wait until after the season to trade off any players, and any players that were traded at the deadline would probably cost double. Either way, I hate rooting for losses...

[kickazz 5,459]

56 minutes ago, Jasper84 said:

This is mostly about me, but I'm sure lots of others relate.

I've always considered myself to be a huge Wings fan, I haven't missed a game in I don't even remember how long. Even this season, I still have every game on tv, but it's mostly background to me working on more productive things. Where I feel dirty, is I want the Wings to score, but I want them to score 1 less than the opposition. I understand that short term suckage = long term success, but does that make me (and others like me) a bad fan?

I just want that #1 OA pick damnit!!!

You’re not a bad fan. You’re a TRUE and SELFLESS fan. You’re willing to let your entertainment be sacrficed for the sake of this teams future. You’re willing to accept the reality that they need to lose for the long run and you’re still here posting and a part of the fandom. 

You have me praise. We got this. 

 

[kjw25 104]

I feel the exact same way. Best bet is for the team to continue to lose. I would rather be awful than mediocre, bigger reward.  

[kliq 3,755]

I agree with pretty much everyone, you're not a bad fan, its a bad system. If you cheer for us to win, and we do win, then we pick lower and are less likely to be better. Its a stupid system.

[BigWillieStyle 662]

I root for this team to play hard, and win, every night, just as I did through the whole Dead Wings Era. I just realize that this team doesn't have enough talent to win more than 1/3 of their remaining games at best. 

Right now, I just want to see the young guys play good, strong, fundamental hockey. Sure, they're going to make mistakes here and there, but do they keep repeating them, or do they learn from them, and move on? I'm okay with getting beaten by better teams. I'm not okay with watching ourselves beat us for the other team. 

I'd much rather see them play hard and win games, and then hope we do well with the bingo balls, than watch them give games away for a better shot at a top 3 pick. There is no honor in tanking, but there is in going out and giving 100%, and losing to a better team. 

[Echolalia 2,961]

I watch just for the entertainment of seeing professional hockey at this point.  I have no real interest in the outcomes of the games.

[Jasper84 333]

20 minutes ago, BigWillieStyle said:

I'd much rather see them play hard and win games, and then hope we do well with the bingo balls, than watch them give games away for a better shot at a top 3 pick. There is no honor in tanking, but there is in going out and giving 100%, and losing to a better team. 

Oh for sure, I don't want them to tank purposely - karma would probably pop it's dirty little head in at that point and give us the worst possible pick we could end up with. 

As for what everyone else is saying about the system, couldn't agree more with that. I just don't know what a better system would be, and probably why nothing better has been implemented. It does make sense for the worst team to get the best odds at the best player available right, so that they have an opportunity to come out of the basement. If they award best changes to getting the BPA to the "best worst team", then I feel that the basement teams would continuously struggle to get out (hell, even teams who get multiple BPA can't get out of the basement). I don't know, I just don't have a good suggestion there.

[kickazz 5,459]

3 minutes ago, Echolalia said:

I watch just for the entertainment of seeing professional hockey at this point.  I have no real interest in the outcomes of the games.

Lies

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

As others already stated: Not bad fans, it's the system that is bad. I remember a Sabres Game a few years back where Sabres fans literally cheered for the other team, because a loss would draw them closer to a No. 1 pick. It's a ridiculous league that evokes such behavior in fans.

[krsmith17 7,191]

39 minutes ago, derblaueClaus said:

As others already stated: Not bad fans, it's the system that is bad. I remember a Sabres Game a few years back where Sabres fans literally cheered for the other team, because a loss would draw them closer to a No. 1 pick. It's a ridiculous league that evokes such behavior in fans.

I was going to mention this, but couldn't remember what team it was.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Yes, there are bad fans. Every team has them, some just have more than ever. Hawks fans are a perfect example. I personally saw "diehard" Hawks fans of the early-mid 90s disappear by the late 90s only to reappear again 10-15 years later. Some of them even became Avs fans for a while just because they were competitive rivals of the Wings. Those are what I would refer to as "bad" fans. This team has some too, unfortunately. Although I believe almost 30 years of winning creates a stronger fanbase which can whether a few bad seasons. So there aren't as many "bad" Wings fans as compared to some other teams IMO.

Being a Dolphins fan, I remember when they were in on the "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes. I wanted to finish last overall to get the number one pick. Unfortunately, the Colts have mastered the tank process. What are the odds the same team who finishes last overall the same year Peyton Manning enters the draft accomplishes the same thing the year Andrew Luck enters the draft only a year after making the playoffs with Manning? Speaking of Colts fans: awful, awful fans. Before Manning, most NFL fans in Indiana were Bears, Packers, Bengals and Steelers fans, maybe a few Browns and Lions. Then the Colts are good and then everyone is a Colts fan. Everyone's wearing a Colts jersey on Gameday. Then what happens when Manning is in Denver and the team is bad again? The Colts jerseys disappear and all the #18 Broncos jerseys pop up. That's why I can't stand the Colts or their fans to this day.

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

12 hours ago, Jasper84 said:

This is mostly about me, but I'm sure lots of others relate.

I've always considered myself to be a huge Wings fan, I haven't missed a game in I don't even remember how long. Even this season, I still have every game on tv, but it's mostly background to me working on more productive things. Where I feel dirty, is I want the Wings to score, but I want them to score 1 less than the opposition. I understand that short term suckage = long term success, but does that make me (and others like me) a bad fan?

I just want that #1 OA pick damnit!!!

No buddy, same here. We're good.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

I’m in the same boat. I use to be excited all day long on gamedays to watch them. Now I’m like I’ll tune in to see the score, I got better things to do then watch them lose. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Is rooting for them to lose really worth it tho if they don't pick in the top 3? 

[xtrememachine1 795]

I never cheer for my team to lose even if it moves them closer to getting a better draft pick.  Let's say you cheer for them to lose, you get the pick you want and they pick someone else or they pick the guy everyone wants and he's a bust.  Now you're back to square one and you're still cheering against your team?  Cheer for your team, hope that younger players get experience and confidence playing at the NHL level and that carries them into the next year.  If you get the top pick in the draft and he works out, great.  If not, no worries, there's a Steve Yzerman behind every Pat LaFontaine.

[AtlantaHotWings 983]

We knew going into the season we would probably suck wind and that's hard to accept after all the years of success. I have watched games this year with less emotion then in years past as I feel we don't have the talent yet to compete at the level we used to.

 Do I believe we will get back to the elite sure do I think we will make the playoffs every year again for 25 years no way the cap has assured parity. So I eagerly wait for the draft and next season when the kids will be a bit more experienced maybe we will have a new cornerstone and maybe a coach because Blash is wearing on my nerves with the same rehearsed speech. 

I do get some enjoyment of pinging my hawks friends asking how their season is going....baahaaa as they say things could be worse. 

[LeftWinger 4,951]

It's no so much being a Bad Fan as it is being a MAD fan! I think we held on way too long to try to extend The Streak. But, the Golden Lining, as long as Uncle Gary and the NHL Conspiracy Machine doesn't screw us out of the #1 pick, we'll get our franchise defenseman. Yes, I believe that #1 pick is ours and if we do not get it, it'll be a snowjob by the NHL!!! I would not be surprised if we took a "record" drop in the lottery standings!!!! Seriously though, in reality I expect a top 4 pick, which should be about as close to a franchise player as we can get.  Also, remember there is an even better player in next years draft that we could "tank" for as well. 

But none of us are bad fans, just mad fans. This is a VERY important off season for the future of this franchise. I know we've said that last summer and possibly even the summer before, but with the possibility of Dahlin and possibly even JT, this could define the next 10-20 years of this franchise. I know that the likelihood of JT being signed here is remote, but in almost every article I read about him, Detroit is always mentioned as a team that will take a run at him. If we're able to get him for $10M-$12M per for a max contract, I know it will take away from our cap, but I hope that our RFA's realize the impact he will have on this team and agree to a smaller bridge contract in order to fit everyone under the cap. 

The OP may not be old enough, but if we held on through the early 80's, we can hold on now. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Nevermind, I ran a test GM in capfriendly, JT won't work unless our RFA's take SUPER low contracts....unless we can dump BOTH Gus(or Helm) and Jimmy at the draft. I know they are worth more at the TDL, but if we are serious about running at JT, we need to clear a buttload more cap, in order to sign him, our RFA's and maybe Green.  Not even counting what Dahlin is going to get paid, along with The Ras & Svech making the club. It is definitely going to be an interesting summer.  I say trade Gus, Jimmy AND Helm before July 1.  They are replaceable, It's just finding a competent enough G that doesn't cost much to take us to another lottery pick. Jimmy just makes too much.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

 Also, remember there is an even better player in next years draft that we could "tank" for as well. 

 

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

  Not even counting what Dahlin is going to get paid, along with The Ras & Svech making the club.

This team won't be any better next season, so they would have an equal shot at next year's 1st overall too. Dahlin will be on the roster next year if he's drafted, but I wouldn't expect to see either of Rass or Svech on the roster to start the season. Svech will probably see around 20 games or more and will be the first call up. Rass will probably play less than 10 games next season. Even w/o Tatar and Booth, you still have 12 forwards from this year carrying over to next year (assuming all RFAs are re-signed). That leaves one, maybe 2 forward spots available. If (and thats a big IF) Holland scores JT, the cap crunch wouldn't allow for anymore forwards. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if KH is looking at bringing back Vanek as a consolation prize.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

This team won't be any better next season, so they would have an equal shot at next year's 1st overall too. Dahlin will be on the roster next year if he's drafted, but I wouldn't expect to see either of Rass or Svech on the roster to start the season. Svech will probably see around 20 games or more and will be the first call up. Rass will probably play less than 10 games next season. Even w/o Tatar and Booth, you still have 12 forwards from this year carrying over to next year (assuming all RFAs are re-signed). That leaves one, maybe 2 forward spots available. If (and thats a big IF) Holland scores JT, the cap crunch wouldn't allow for anymore forwards. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if KH is looking at bringing back Vanek as a consolation prize.

I agree that Rasmussen probably won't make the team next season. We're in a tough spot with Ras, because he either has to play another season in juniors, or play in the NHL. Ideally we'd be able to send him to the AHL, but that isn't the case. My fear of him playing another season with Tri-City, is that he needs to start playing against tougher competition. If not, his development could come to a standstill.

The same can be said for Svechnikov. He needs to be playing in the NHL in my opinion. I truly do believe that keeping prospects down too long can really hurt their development. Another year down in Grand Rapids could turn Svech into the next Jurco...

We were this season / likely will be next season a cap ceiling team. We are this season / likely will be next season the oldest team in the league. This is a team going through a rebuild. That is not a recipe for success. We needs to get younger, not older. Bringing back Vanek would be terrible, especially if it's blocking a kid like Svechnikov. We need to shed some roster players. We shouldn't be looking to sign any UFA's, unless it's Tavares in my opinion.

Ideally, I'd like to trade Nielsen to open up a spot for Rasmussen and Helm or Glendening to open up a spot for Turgeon. Svechnikov should stick with the team. We may even have to open up another spot if we get Andrei Svechnikov in the draft...

[xault 272]

I am kind of the same way. But I can't stand losing to CHI, PIT and COL. Regardless if we are contenders or bottom of the basement. Anytime we lose to CHI mainly, I am not an easy person to be around for a few hours.

And something about losing on a Sunday when we have a Noon to 3:00 pm games also get's under my skin for the day.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

9 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree that Rasmussen probably won't make the team next season. We're in a tough spot with Ras, because he either has to play another season in juniors, or play in the NHL. Ideally we'd be able to send him to the AHL, but that isn't the case. My fear of him playing another season with Tri-City, is that he needs to start playing against tougher competition. If not, his development could come to a standstill.

The same can be said for Svechnikov. He needs to be playing in the NHL in my opinion. I truly do believe that keeping prospects down too long can really hurt their development. Another year down in Grand Rapids could turn Svech into the next Jurco...

We were this season / likely will be next season a cap ceiling team. We are this season / likely will be next season the oldest team in the league. This is a team going through a rebuild. That is not a recipe for success. We needs to get younger, not older. Bringing back Vanek would be terrible, especially if it's blocking a kid like Svechnikov. We need to shed some roster players. We shouldn't be looking to sign any UFA's, unless it's Tavares in my opinion.

Ideally, I'd like to trade Nielsen to open up a spot for Rasmussen and Helm or Glendening to open up a spot for Turgeon. Svechnikov should stick with the team. We may even have to open up another spot if we get Andrei Svechnikov in the draft...

is that a rule I missed? He cannot play in the AHL?