ESPN lists most dominant champions of last 20 years: 2008 Red Wings come in 9th

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

The Devils were not just a team that played a system.  In 2001, they scored 295 goals.  I don't think any team has scored that many since.  In 2000 (which many consider their strongest team), they finished second in goals scores.  Their top line was legit with Elias, Arnott, and Sykora.  Over the years, they had other offensive stars like Gionta, Langenbrunner, Mogilny, Lemieux.  Guys like Holik, Madden, Pandolfo, and Brylin were there for multiple Cups. 

The 2004 Tampa team was a one and done deal.  They didn't do much the rest of the seasons around that.  The 2007 Ducks were also a one-time Cup winner, but they had good teams for many seasons around that time.  They beat a good Wings team and got past the Senators in 5 games.  Tampa struggled in a 7 game series against a Calgary team full of scrubs.  I don't see them beating the Ducks.      

[kliq 3,755]

3 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

The Devils were not just a team that played a system.  In 2001, they scored 295 goals.  I don't think any team has scored that many since.  In 2000 (which many consider their strongest team), they finished second in goals scores.  Their top line was legit with Elias, Arnott, and Sykora.  Over the years, they had other offensive stars like Gionta, Langenbrunner, Mogilny, Lemieux.  Guys like Holik, Madden, Pandolfo, and Brylin were there for multiple Cups. 

The 2004 Tampa team was a one and done deal.  They didn't do much the rest of the seasons around that.  The 2007 Ducks were also a one-time Cup winner, but they had good teams for many seasons around that time.  They beat a good Wings team and got past the Senators in 5 games.  Tampa struggled in a 7 game series against a Calgary team full of scrubs.  I don't see them beating the Ducks.      

If you are talking who had the better team over a 10 year span, or overall franchise success, no question its the Devils.

I am looking at each team in a bubble, and based on that I give the edge to TB.

You can say that TB struggled to beat a team of scrubs in Calgary, but that team of scrubs kicked out asses in 6 games. That team of scrubs had the best goaltender in the league who was playing absolutely lights out.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, kliq said:

If you are talking who had the better team over a 10 year span, or overall franchise success, no question its the Devils.

I am looking at each team in a bubble, and based on that I give the edge to TB.

You can say that TB struggled to beat a team of scrubs in Calgary, but that team of scrubs kicked out asses in 6 games. That team of scrubs had the best goaltender in the league who was playing absolutely lights out.

That's why they made the Finals. The rest of that team was unremarkable. I don't think I can even name one player from it. Same with the Canes. That Cup was all Cam Ward.

[kliq 3,755]

19 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

That's why they made the Finals. The rest of that team was unremarkable. I don't think I can even name one player from it. Same with the Canes. That Cup was all Cam Ward.

Are you talking Calgary? They had Jerome Iginla who at the time was one of the best players in the NHL. Craig Conroy was nothing special, but he also had a career year that year. Add them to a very good D and amazing goalie, and they were a great team in that playoff run. Like I said, they kicked our asses in the 2nd round.

[kliq 3,755]

5 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

The Devils were not just a team that played a system.  In 2001, they scored 295 goals.  I don't think any team has scored that many since.  In 2000 (which many consider their strongest team), they finished second in goals scores.  Their top line was legit with Elias, Arnott, and Sykora.  Over the years, they had other offensive stars like Gionta, Langenbrunner, Mogilny, Lemieux.  Guys like Holik, Madden, Pandolfo, and Brylin were there for multiple Cups. 

The 2004 Tampa team was a one and done deal.  They didn't do much the rest of the seasons around that.  The 2007 Ducks were also a one-time Cup winner, but they had good teams for many seasons around that time.  They beat a good Wings team and got past the Senators in 5 games.  Tampa struggled in a 7 game series against a Calgary team full of scrubs.  I don't see them beating the Ducks.      

I didnt realize that the 2001 team was so good offensively, I'll give you that one. 2003 on the other hand, my point stands as they ranked #14 in GF.

TB in 2004 was ranked #3. They were a good team, you can only beat the competition that's in front of you, and like I have said, they beat the team that took us out, and we were supposedly the best with all the hall of famers we had.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

I didnt realize that the 2001 team was so good offensively, I'll give you that one. 2003 on the other hand, my point stands as they ranked #14 in GF.

TB in 2004 was ranked #3. They were a good team, you can only beat the competition that's in front of you, and like I have said, they beat the team that took us out, and we were supposedly the best with all the hall of famers we had.

Two of our Hall of Famers, namely Yzerman and Chelios, didn't even finish that forsaken series.  That Wings team was good in the regular season but that was that unfortunate stretch where they kept losing in the playoffs to no name teams with hot goalies. 

The 2003 Devils were tied for the league lead with fewest goals allowed.  They had the best PK in the league.  They had 108 points.  They may not have scored a ton of goals, but they didn't need to.  They were a great team, and were going to win the Cup whether they played Anaheim, Detroit, or Dallas in the Finals.  They were the best team in the league that year.  I've said this before, but I put greater stock in teams that won it more than once.  I can't see the 2004 Lightning beating the 2003 Devils with their pedigree, talent, and experience.  That Tampa team was, pardon the pun, "lightning in a bottle".       

[chaps80 1,591]

3 hours ago, kliq said:

Are you talking Calgary? They had Jerome Iginla who at the time was one of the best players in the NHL. Craig Conroy was nothing special, but he also had a career year that year. Add them to a very good D and amazing goalie, and they were a great team in that playoff run. Like I said, they kicked our asses in the 2nd round.

The Wings were also a great team with a great D and one of the top 5 goalies in the league. The Flames won in 6 games on an OT goal where Joseph uncharacteristically got caught a bit (almost made it over in time though, milliseconds), and big Hatcher with his big contract was right there with Gelinas when he got the puck (I think thats who scored) and should have had him covered but he did absolutely nothing, just stood there and watched. It wasn't as if it was an easy series for Calgary, it honestly could have gone either way. They did physically punish the Wings though, and Kipper was massive in that entire run after getting picked up from SJ, where he was their third stringer. No one expected that kind of performance out of him. 

Those Dave Lewis years were some dark times in the playoffs. Swept in the first round by the Ducks in '03, lost in 6 in the second round to Calgary in '04. Add that to the loss in 6 to in the first round to Edmonton in '06 under Babs. All three after dominant regular seasons.

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Two of our Hall of Famers, namely Yzerman and Chelios, didn't even finish that forsaken series.  That Wings team was good in the regular season but that was that unfortunate stretch where they kept losing in the playoffs to no name teams with hot goalies. 

The 2003 Devils were tied for the league lead with fewest goals allowed.  They had the best PK in the league.  They had 108 points.  They may not have scored a ton of goals, but they didn't need to.  They were a great team, and were going to win the Cup whether they played Anaheim, Detroit, or Dallas in the Finals.  They were the best team in the league that year.  I've said this before, but I put greater stock in teams that won it more than once.  I can't see the 2004 Lightning beating the 2003 Devils with their pedigree, talent, and experience.  That Tampa team was, pardon the pun, "lightning in a bottle".       

Again, I'm not talking about how good a team was throughout the decade, if that is the discussion then no question NJ > TB.

You can keep making excuses in regards to the 2004 TB team, but at the end of the day you can only beat who is put in front of you and TB did that. They dominated the regular season, they had the best player in the league, the had young studs, they had a great goalie, and they had decent D. I believe the 04 Lighting beat the 03 Devlis in a best of 7.

Your logic is flawed as well. You criticize TB for beating Calgary, a team with only a stud (Iginla) and amazing goalie (Kip) and great coaching (Sutter), but you praise the Devils in '03 who beat who in the finals? The 7th seeded Ducks who also beat us, had a stud (Kariya), an amazing goalie (Giggy) and a great coach (Babs). They had a very similar path. Where I really give credit to the Lightning was their semi finals win against the Flyers, that was a very good team.

As far as the bold goes, that was my original point. The Devils were a team that had a great system, a great coach, and a great goalie, but for the most part were filled with mediocre players. Ill give them credit, they won the cup, but I dont they are as good as TB.

54 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

The Wings were also a great team with a great D and one of the top 5 goalies in the league. The Flames won in 6 games on an OT goal where Joseph uncharacteristically got caught a bit (almost made it over in time though, milliseconds), and big Hatcher with his big contract was right there with Gelinas when he got the puck (I think thats who scored) and should have had him covered but he did absolutely nothing, just stood there and watched. It wasn't as if it was an easy series for Calgary, it honestly could have gone either way. They did physically punish the Wings though, and Kipper was massive in that entire run after getting picked up from SJ, where he was their third stringer. No one expected that kind of performance out of him. 

Those Dave Lewis years were some dark times in the playoffs. Swept in the first round by the Ducks in '03, lost in 6 in the second round to Calgary in '04. Add that to the loss in 6 to in the first round to Edmonton in '06 under Babs. All three after dominant regular seasons.

I remember that 

Having your season end in OT is one of the worst feelings you can have as a fan.

I remember it really pissed me off how some Wings fans turned on Joseph that year. The guy was my favourite goalie in the league for year and I was pumped to have him here, and then to have Holland treat him pretty poorly, followed by the fans doing the same, it really left a sour taste in my mouth.

Edited April 4, 2018 by kliq

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

Again, I'm not talking about how good a team was throughout the decade, if that is the discussion then no question NJ > TB.

You can keep making excuses in regards to the 2004 TB team, but at the end of the day you can only beat who is put in front of you and TB did that. They dominated the regular season, they had the best player in the league, the had young studs, they had a great goalie, and they had decent D. I believe the 04 Lighting beat the 03 Devlis in a best of 7.

Your logic is flawed as well. You criticize TB for beating Calgary, a team with only a stud (Iginla) and amazing goalie (Kip) and great coaching (Sutter), but you praise the Devils in '03 who beat who in the finals? The 7th seeded Ducks who also beat us, had a stud (Kariya), an amazing goalie (Giggy) and a great coach (Babs). They had a very similar path. Where I really give credit to the Lightning was their semi finals win against the Flyers, that was a very good team.

As far as the bold goes, that was my original point. The Devils were a team that had a great system, a great coach, and a great goalie, but for the most part were filled with mediocre players. Ill give them credit, they won the cup, but I dont they are as good as TB.

I remember that 

Having your season end in OT is one of the worst feelings you can have as a fan.

I remember it really pissed me off how some Wings fans turned on Joseph that year. The guy was my favourite goalie in the league for year and I was pumped to have him here, and then to have Holland treat him pretty poorly, followed by the fans doing the same, it really left a sour taste in my mouth.

Yep, it was a s***ty moment, that's for sure. I happened to be visiting a friend in Calgary during the playoffs that year, so that made it even worse. Was a fun couple months there though, that city was pumpin! 

That loss was far from Joseph's fault, same as the Anaheim series the year before. He gave the team more than enough to win. I never blamed him like many others. The whole Joseph/Hasek situation was a major s***show on Holland's part. Joseph was already the starter for a year, then Hasek suddenly decides he's coming out of retirement. I don't blame Kenny for picking up the option to sign him before he became a UFA, but it should have been an immediate sign and trade kinda deal. Could have gotten quite a package for Hasek back then. But no, he keeps them both in the same dressing room until it turns toxic and Joseph gets put on the trade block. No takers, so he's waived and plays in ******* GR. Ultimate insult. Then Hasek has a season ender of an injury, and all is supposed to be forgiven cause Joseph is now needed. I'll bet he still despises Ken Holland to this day for all that crap.

Hasek actually returned the $8 million he signed for that season after his injury, that was a surprise. Never saw that before.

[LeftWinger 4,958]

A sign and trade of Hasek would've been great! He went back to Ottawa the next season (after lockout) right? Could've just traded him to Ottawa after signing him for at least some draft picks. Imagine the loyalty that would've shown Cujo?

Speaking of Cujo, NO WAY was anything his fault the two years he was here. Of his career he had his nest GAA and SAV% while in Detroit! He had 50 wins in 92 games, if Holland would've sign and traded Hasek, could you imagine the stats Cujo may have had actually being happy here for his second year? It's all speculation, but he did not cause our playoff exits, lack of scoring on hot goalies did.

Giguere and Kiprusoff were the cause of our demise.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

14 hours ago, kliq said:

Again, I'm not talking about how good a team was throughout the decade, if that is the discussion then no question NJ > TB.

You can keep making excuses in regards to the 2004 TB team, but at the end of the day you can only beat who is put in front of you and TB did that. They dominated the regular season, they had the best player in the league, the had young studs, they had a great goalie, and they had decent D. I believe the 04 Lighting beat the 03 Devlis in a best of 7.

Your logic is flawed as well. You criticize TB for beating Calgary, a team with only a stud (Iginla) and amazing goalie (Kip) and great coaching (Sutter), but you praise the Devils in '03 who beat who in the finals? The 7th seeded Ducks who also beat us, had a stud (Kariya), an amazing goalie (Giggy) and a great coach (Babs). They had a very similar path. Where I really give credit to the Lightning was their semi finals win against the Flyers, that was a very good team.

As far as the bold goes, that was my original point. The Devils were a team that had a great system, a great coach, and a great goalie, but for the most part were filled with mediocre players. Ill give them credit, they won the cup, but I dont they are as good as TB.

I remember that 

Having your season end in OT is one of the worst feelings you can have as a fan.

I remember it really pissed me off how some Wings fans turned on Joseph that year. The guy was my favourite goalie in the league for year and I was pumped to have him here, and then to have Holland treat him pretty poorly, followed by the fans doing the same, it really left a sour taste in my mouth.

IMO, the 2003 Ducks were a better team than the 2004 Flames.  Their playoff record was more impressive, as was the quality of opposition they knocked off in relatively easy fashion.  It wasn't until the Finals where they finally ran into serious problems.   

We have to agree to disagree, but I don't see the Lightning as being good enough to beat the top two or three Devils teams of that decade, including the 2003 team.  I think Jersey would shut down Tampa's fowards and would be able to score against Tampa's defense.  They had the playoff experience on their side.  I trust Brodeur more than Khabibulin in big games.  To me, that Devils team wasn't that much different than the 2000 and 2001 version that went to the Finals.  A few different pieces, but the same solid machine.    

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

IMO, the 2003 Ducks were a better team than the 2004 Flames.  Their playoff record was more impressive, as was the quality of opposition they knocked off in relatively easy fashion.  It wasn't until the Finals where they finally ran into serious problems.   

We have to agree to disagree, but I don't see the Lightning as being good enough to beat the top two or three Devils teams of that decade, including the 2003 team.  I think Jersey would shut down Tampa's fowards and would be able to score against Tampa's defense.  They had the playoff experience on their side.  I trust Brodeur more than Khabibulin in big games.  To me, that Devils team wasn't that much different than the 2000 and 2001 version that went to the Finals.  A few different pieces, but the same solid machine.    

I think if the 2004 Lightning face the 2003 Devils, the TB D is able to hold of the mediocre offense of the Devils, and TB's far superior forwards are able to score just enough to win the series. It likely goes 6 or 7, but TB should pull it out. I give Brodeur the edge over Khabi, but Khabi faces a much weaker offense.

Sure, agree to disagree.Though the 2000 Devils and 2003 Devils were a much different team. Like you said, #1 in scoring for the 2000, team #14 in scoring for the 2003 team.

I wont debate the 2000 team, I agree they likely win.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

22 hours ago, kliq said:

Are you talking Calgary? They had Jerome Iginla who at the time was one of the best players in the NHL.

Yes, Calgary. I know they had Iginla, I was being sarcastic. He was literally the only elite skater they had.

Here's their roster:

 

No.	Player	Flag	Pos	Age	Ht	Wt	S/C	Exp	Birth Date	Summary
15	Blair Betts	ca	C	23	6-3	210	L/-	2	February 16, 1980	1 G, 2 A, 3 P
17	Chris Clark	us	RW	27	6-0	191	R/-	4	March 8, 1976	10 G, 15 A, 25 P
2	Mike Commodore	ca	D	24	6-4	227	R/-	3	November 7, 1979	0 G, 0 A, 0 P
22	Craig Conroy	us	C	32	6-2	193	R/-	9	September 4, 1971	8 G, 39 A, 47 P
16	Shean Donovan	ca	RW	29	6-3	218	R/-	9	January 22, 1975	18 G, 24 A, 42 P
21	Andrew Ference	ca	D	24	5-11	182	L/-	4	March 17, 1979	4 G, 12 A, 16 P
3	Denis Gauthier	ca	D	27	6-2	220	L/-	6	October 1, 1976	1 G, 15 A, 16 P
23	Martin Gelinas	ca	LW	33	5-11	202	L/-	15	June 5, 1970	17 G, 18 A, 35 P
26	Josh Green	ca	LW	26	6-4	225	L/-	4	November 16, 1977	2 G, 4 A, 6 P
12	Jarome Iginla (C)	ca	RW	26	6-1	210	R/-	7	July 1, 1977	41 G, 32 A, 73 P
34	Miikka Kiprusoff	fi	G	27	6-1	185	-/L	3	October 26, 1976	24-10-4, 1.69 GAA
7	Chuck Kobasew	ca	RW	21	6-0	192	R/-	1	April 17, 1982	6 G, 11 A, 17 P
4	Jordan Leopold	us	D	23	6-1	206	L/-	1	August 3, 1980	9 G, 24 A, 33 P
18-49	Matthew Lombardi	ca	C	21	5-11	195	L/-	R	March 18, 1982	16 G, 13 A, 29 P
10	Dave Lowry	ca	LW	38	6-1	195	L/-	18	February 14, 1965	1 G, 1 A, 2 P
20	Lynn Loyns	ca	LW	22	5-11	205	L/-	1	February 21, 1981	0 G, 2 A, 2 P
32	Toni Lydman	fi	D	26	6-1	208	L/-	3	September 25, 1977	4 G, 16 A, 20 P
37	Dean McAmmond	ca	LW	30	5-11	195	L/-	11	June 15, 1973	17 G, 13 A, 30 P
29	Jamie McLennan	ca	G	32	6-0	190	-/L	8	June 30, 1971	12-9-3, 2.20 GAA
5	Steve Montador	ca	D	24	6-0	210	R/-	2	December 21, 1979	1 G, 2 A, 3 P
46	Jason Morgan	ca	LW	27	6-1	200	L/-	2	October 9, 1976	0 G, 2 A, 2 P
24	Ville Nieminen	fi	RW	26	5-11	200	L/-	4	April 6, 1977	3 G, 5 A, 8 P
26	Marcus Nilson	se	LW	25	6-2	189	R/-	5	March 1, 1978	5 G, 0 A, 5 P
33	Krzysztof Oliwa	pl	LW	30	6-5	245	L/-	7	April 12, 1973	3 G, 2 A, 5 P
28	Robyn Regehr	br	D	23	6-3	222	L/-	4	April 19, 1980	4 G, 14 A, 18 P
27	Steve Reinprecht	ca	C	27	6-0	195	L/-	4	May 7, 1976	7 G, 22 A, 29 P
50	Dany Sabourin	ca	G	23	6-4	204	-/L	R	September 2, 1980	0-3-0, 3.55 GAA
19	Oleg Saprykin	su	LW	22	6-1	190	L/-	4	February 12, 1981	12 G, 17 A, 29 P
15	Chris Simon	ca	LW	32	6-3	233	L/-	11	January 30, 1972	3 G, 2 A, 5 P
25	Martin Sonnenberg	ca	LW	26	6-0	197	L/-	2	January 23, 1978	0 G, 0 A, 0 P
1	Roman Turek	cs	G	33	6-3	220	-/R	7	May 21, 1970	6-11-0, 2.33 GAA
44	Rhett Warrener	ca	D	28	6-1	203	R/-	8	January 27, 1976	3 G, 14 A, 17 P
11	Stephane Yelle	ca	C	29	6-2	182	L/-	8	May 9, 1974	4 G, 13 A, 17 P

 

Like I said, unremarkable. That roster belongs nowhere near the finals.

22 hours ago, kliq said:

Add them to a very good D and amazing goalie, and they were a great team in that playoff run. Like I said, they kicked our asses in the 2nd round.

Kipper was lights out in the playoffs. That's why they made the finals and beat the Wings.

That D corp is average. A lot of 2nd pair caliber guys there. (Unless of course you count the elite Mike Commodore )

Also, I wouldn't call a Game 6 OT victory a rout.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

27 minutes ago, kliq said:

I think if the 2004 Lightning face the 2003 Devils, the TB D is able to hold of the mediocre offense of the Devils, and TB's far superior forwards are able to score just enough to win the series. It likely goes 6 or 7, but TB should pull it out. I give Brodeur the edge over Khabi, but Khabi faces a much weaker offense.

Sure, agree to disagree.Though the 2000 Devils and 2003 Devils were a much different team. Like you said, #1 in scoring for the 2000, team #14 in scoring for the 2003 team.

I wont debate the 2000 team, I agree they likely win.

So offense wins Championships?  

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, GMRwings1983 said:

So offense wins Championships?  

In 2004 it did.

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yes, Calgary. I know they had Iginla, I was being sarcastic. He was literally the only elite skater they had.

Here's their roster:

Like I said, unremarkable. That roster belongs nowhere near the finals.

Kipper was lights out in the playoffs. That's why they made the finals and beat the Wings.

That D corp is average. A lot of 2nd pair caliber guys there. (Unless of course you count the elite Mike Commodore )

Also, I wouldn't call a Game 6 OT victory a rout.

Calgary did have an elite goalie that year in the playoffs, and the Wings/Canucks/Sharks (repecfully #1, #3, #2 seeds) couldn't overcome it. You literally cannot have a harder path to the finals then the Flames, then even in the finals they had to face the #1 seed on the other side. In the end the Lightning overcame a team that was playing great hockey and I give the Lightning props for it. They were a great team. 

I watched a lot of the Flames that run, and in the playoffs they were legit playing great hockey. Both the Lightning and Flames looked much better then the '03 Devils.

I cant argue the bold, they were not great on paper but we all know that what's on paper means nothing. If it did then Washington would be one of the greatest teams of the last decade. Its what you do in the playoffs and TB and Cgy kicked ass in the playoffs.

Did I call the game 6 victory a rout?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

13 minutes ago, kliq said:

 

Did I call the game 6 victory a rout?

 

On 4/3/2018 at 7:37 PM, kliq said:

Are you talking Calgary? They had Jerome Iginla who at the time was one of the best players in the NHL. Craig Conroy was nothing special, but he also had a career year that year. Add them to a very good D and amazing goalie, and they were a great team in that playoff run. Like I said, they kicked our asses in the 2nd round.

Not exactly potty-mouth. 

[kliq 3,755]

1 minute ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

Not exactly potty-mouth. 

lol......Sorry, when you said game 6 OT, I was thinking TB/Cgy. OK, they didnt kill us like the Ducks, but we got really outplayed. 

 

[chaps80 1,591]

8 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

A sign and trade of Hasek would've been great! He went back to Ottawa the next season (after lockout) right? Could've just traded him to Ottawa after signing him for at least some draft picks. Imagine the loyalty that would've shown Cujo?

Speaking of Cujo, NO WAY was anything his fault the two years he was here. Of his career he had his nest GAA and SAV% while in Detroit! He had 50 wins in 92 games, if Holland would've sign and traded Hasek, could you imagine the stats Cujo may have had actually being happy here for his second year? It's all speculation, but he did not cause our playoff exits, lack of scoring on hot goalies did.

Giguere and Kiprusoff were the cause of our demise.

Yes, Hasek signed with Ottawa for the 2006 season. He was playing lights out for them too, up until the Olympics, where he had a season ending injury and probably screwed the Sens out of the Cup that season. I'm sure there would have been a few teams willing to take Hasek off Holland's hands for a great return in 2004, but he screwed the pooch on it all. When he was trying to trade Joseph instead, I think Joseph had a knee injury he was day to day with and no one wanted to take him at $8 million.

Yeah, Giggy and Kipper were absolutely unreal. Giggy carried the Ducks through the entire playoffs. First player on the losing side to win the Smythe since Hextall in '87.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

7 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Yes, Hasek signed with Ottawa for the 2006 season. He was playing lights out for them too, up until the Olympics, where he had a season ending injury and probably screwed the Sens out of the Cup that season. I'm sure there would have been a few teams willing to take Hasek off Holland's hands for a great return in 2004, but he screwed the pooch on it all. When he was trying to trade Joseph instead, I think Joseph had a knee injury he was day to day with and no one wanted to take him at $8 million.

Yeah, Giggy and Kipper were absolutely unreal. Giggy carried the Ducks through the entire playoffs. First player on the losing side to win the Smythe since Hextall in '87.

While I'm sure there would have been takers on Hasek, the reasons you gave for CuJo not getting interest are the exact same reasons why Holland should have been trying to trade him over Hasek. In 2004, we had just come off an embarrassing 1st round sweep by the Ducks with CuJo in net IIRC. We were in the middle of a Dynasty, won the President's Trophy, and were once again a favorite for the Cup. Under those circumstances, you trade the 8 million dollar goalie with the ankle injury and keep the healthier, equally priced goalie with the better resume. Being that we got knocked out that year by the lower-seeded Flames, hindsight says maybe KH should have done something differently. But, can you imagine if Holland traded Hasek instead of CuJo?  Everyone would be talking about what an idiot he was for choosing "No Cup CuJo" over arguably the best goalie of all time. And how we would have won the Cup if only he kept Hasek.

 

[chaps80 1,591]

11 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

While I'm sure there would have been takers on Hasek, the reasons you gave for CuJo not getting interest are the exact same reasons why Holland should have been trying to trade him over Hasek. In 2004, we had just come off an embarrassing 1st round sweep by the Ducks with CuJo in net IIRC. We were in the middle of a Dynasty, won the President's Trophy, and were once again a favorite for the Cup. Under those circumstances, you trade the 8 million dollar goalie with the ankle injury and keep the healthier, equally priced goalie with the better resume. Being that we got knocked out that year by the lower-seeded Flames, hindsight says maybe KH should have done something differently. But, can you imagine if Holland traded Hasek instead of CuJo?  Everyone would be talking about what an idiot he was for choosing "No Cup CuJo" over arguably the best goalie of all time. And how we would have won the Cup if only he kept Hasek.

 

I get trying to trade Cujo if that's what he really wanted to do, but at the time it wasn't going to happen with the injury. When he was sent down to GR he wasn't claimed either. But now that i think about it, it was a "conditioning stint" type thing like what has been done with Howard, i believe.

Hasek was done for the season soon after anyways, so it's a good thing Cujo wasn't moved. Legace would have been the starter, and things would have fallen apart sooner. Hasek probably wouldn't have changed the Flames series. Cujo was more than good enough to win, he just didn't get the goals and D support, especially on that series ender with ******* Hatcher. Pylon. But I can absolutely see fans being pissed after the exit if Hasek was traded and stayed healthy, cause that's just how she goes.

I dunno what Legace was making that year, but probably around $1.5 million give or take. So that was $17.5 million tied up in just goaltending. Ahh, the pre cap era.

[Barrie 900]

On 3/27/2018 at 11:17 AM, GMRwings1983 said:

Based on that, the 2012 Kings were the best team of the last 30 years in the NHL, since they started every series up 3-0. You have to look at other factors than whether they were down in the playoffs at some point.  The playoffs aren't meant to be easy.  I don't think the 2008 Wings had a particularly easy run compared to other Cup winngers.  Do you think the 2008 Wings could possibly go down in a series against the 2002 Avalanche?  Most likely.    

I think the 2008 Wings could beat the 2002 Avs. The 2008 Wings dominated all year, they outshot their opponents on an average by 11. They had the puck the entire game!

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

21 hours ago, Barrie said:

I think the 2008 Wings could beat the 2002 Avs. The 2008 Wings dominated all year, they outshot their opponents on an average by 11. They had the puck the entire game!

Maybe.  The 2002 Avalanche finished with 99 points and allowed the fewest goals of any team in the league.  Before that sounds like a small accomplishment, please remember that they played the entire regular season without Peter Forsberg.  That team was loaded with talent all over the lineup.  They'd be a tough out for any team.  Even though I hated them immensely, time has allowed me to appreciate those teams more for how good they were.  

[Barrie 900]

On 4/13/2018 at 2:20 PM, GMRwings1983 said:

Maybe.  The 2002 Avalanche finished with 99 points and allowed the fewest goals of any team in the league.  Before that sounds like a small accomplishment, please remember that they played the entire regular season without Peter Forsberg.  That team was loaded with talent all over the lineup.  They'd be a tough out for any team.  Even though I hated them immensely, time has allowed me to appreciate those teams more for how good they were.  

No doubt a 2002 Avs vs. 2008 Wings series would be great!

[kickazz 5,459]

On 3/23/2018 at 10:39 AM, GMRwings1983 said:

Now you're being picky and hypocritical.  The 2008 team struggled against Nashville and needed a goalie change, an OT goal in game 5, and a center ice goal in game 6 to beat the Preds.  They also struggled in the series against Dallas putting the opposition away.  You could say the same about the Pens series.  The playoffs are tough.  Most Cup winners are challenged by someone at some point.  To say that the 2008 team wasn't challenged is false.  They were in danger of being ousted in the first round and lacked killer instinct in three of the series they played.  Their only dominant series was against the Avalanche, because they had Theodore in net and Franzen went crazy.   

The 2002 team struggled against the Avs because that team was really freaking good.  I believe that team would also beat the 2008 Wings.  The Vancouver series was similar to the Wings struggles in 2008 against Nashville.  The sequence of games was different but that's not the point.  Losing badly to the Blues one game isn't a big deal when you consider how they dominated the rest of that series.  The Blues in 2002 were a team with a lot of talent.  They just had a crappy goalie in Brent Johnson.      

The individual awards are nice, but not as nice as having 10 Hall of Famers on the team.  

Most of those Hall of Famers were much past their prime. Most of the best players of the 08 team was young. They would have beaten the 02 guys at their age in 2002. 

The Nashville and Dallas struggles you mentioned are nothing compared to the 02 struggle Avs gave the Wings. The Wings in 2008 were just better than most teams in every way. They literally had puck possession most of the game in every game. 

08 team is underrated around here because we get spoiled by names like Hull, Robataille, Yzerman. Guys who were pretty far past their prime in 02. 

On 4/4/2018 at 7:01 PM, GMRwings1983 said:

So offense wins Championships?  

Yep. Sure can. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by kickazz