Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

[Dabura 12,207]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

BRING BACK VANEK

No. It's all about the Jagr pro tryout redemption arch, baby.

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

 

So in other words, Holland wants to trade AA for a young D-man lol.

[martyrme19 73]

35 minutes ago, Dabura said:

No. It's all about the Jagr pro tryout redemption arch, baby.

Kovalchuk - Jagr - Vanek

Let's make it happen in '08!

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

So in other words, Holland wants to trade AA for a young D-man lol.

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

Holland also said the Wings won't be players in free agency, so we can rule out Tavares, Carlson, et al. and be content with the knowledge that, at the very least, our team won't be getting older next season. Which, for the Wings, is a pretty big deal.

Holland and Blashill and Zetterberg have always maintained that if there's going to be a Red Wings youth revolution, the kids have to prove that it would be a revolution worth having. To our young forwards' credit, they made a strong case this season, maybe especially over the last two or three weeks of the season. And to Holland's credit and Blashill's credit and Zetterberg's credit, it seems like they're acknowledging it and embracing it.

Now watch us bring back Vanek.

I hope not. If you can land a player like that, you do it. Rebuild or not, if we can afford him and he wants to sign here - do it.

As far as Vanek goes, I mean, we could do worse. He would be like the forward equivalent of signing Daley. At least it would give us all something more to debate.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

22 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yeah, team wants him to come to camp

Ads are based on your web traffic I think.

Someones been watching Mia Khalifa videos...

Nah. She's a Caps fan.

 

Plus I was using a shared work computer with an internet filter, so I don't know why I was getting those ads. Couldn't download her "body of work" if I tried.

Although she did threaten to streak at a Nationals game if her tweet hit a certain number once. If she would be willing to do that for a Caps Cup, it would just give me more reason to root for them.

Lots of other weird ads on here tho too. I can assure you, I have never shopped for a pair of pants like this!

Edited April 14, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

I hope not. If you can land a player like that, you do it. Rebuild or not, if we can afford him and he wants to sign here - do it.

As far as Vanek goes, I mean, we could do worse. He would be like the forward equivalent of signing Daley. At least it would give us all something more to debate.

If we trade a player like Helm, sure, why not... If we sign Vanek and bury Svechnikov on the 4th line, f*** that...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

If we trade a player like Helm, sure, why not... If we sign Vanek and bury Svechnikov on the 4th line, f*** that...

Svech is gonna be on the 4th line no matter what. C'mon now you know better.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Svech is gonna be on the 4th line no matter what. C'mon now you know better.

Which is exactly what's wrong with this team...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Nah. She's a Caps fan.

 

Plus I was using a shared work computer with an internet filter, so I don't know why I was getting those ads. Couldn't download her "body of work" if I tried.

Although she did threaten to streak at a Nationals game if her tweet hit a certain number once. If she would be willing to do that for a Caps Cup, it would just give me more reason to root for them.

Lots of other weird ads on here tho too. I can assure you, I have never shopped for a pair of pants like this!

I haven't seen the goofy pants in awhile myself

[Dabura 12,207]

4 hours ago, kliq said:

So in other words, Holland wants to trade AA for a young D-man lol.

3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

Yep, my mind went straight to AA. Could just be a truism, though. It's not like he's gonna say, "I would most certainly NOT love to make a value-for-value trade as part of the rebuild process." It'd help if we had more context, but I dunno if that's available.

If AA does get dealt in a "value-for-value" trade, I wouldn't necessarily expect the return to be a defenseman, since the trade market value of a good young defenseman -- whether he's NHL-proven or an unproven teenage prospect -- is crazy right now.

Maybe a guy like Alex Wennberg is a semi-realistic target? 23-year-old centerman. Swedish. Coming off a disappointing 8-goal, 35-point regular season for a Blue Jackets team that some feel needs to add some pure goal-scoring punch in the offseason. Overtaken by Pierre-Luc Dubois on the depth chart. Under contract for five more years @ $4.9M per year, which is looking pretty ugly right now but could end up being pretty good value.

Or how about Boone Jenner?

3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I hope not. If you can land a player like that, you do it. Rebuild or not, if we can afford him and he wants to sign here - do it.

I'm sure Holland will pursue him if there's actually something there to pursue. I guess my assertion that we can "rule out Tavares" doesn't necessarily follow from Holland's statement that the Wings aren't going to be a player in free agency (or whatever Holland's actual statement was). It's possible he simply meant he's not going to be aggressively pursuing multiple players like he normally does.

3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

As far as Vanek goes, I mean, we could do worse. He would be like the forward equivalent of signing Daley. At least it would give us all something more to debate.

I'm hoping the Vanek-Wings ship has sailed. He's super-skilled and the Wings seemed to like him as a teammate, but he's also old and slow and a defensive liability and a subpar possession player. With Rasmussen looking to make the team out of camp and Andrei Svechnikov/Tkachuk/Zadina possibly being in the mix, I've got no interest in a veteran stopgap/roadblock PP specialist at the moment. That's just me tho.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Dabura

[RightWeiner 17]

22 hours ago, Dabura said:

Hmm, so maybe I'm wrong and the team will in fact look pretty different next season. Of course, as far as I know, Holland didn't specify when the team might be expected to hit that hypothetical "4-5" mark (opening night? Mid-season injury fill-ins? Post-trade deadline call-ups?) or if "4-5" even means four or five guys *all on the roster at the same time, all holding down regular spots at the same time*.

In any case, here's the exact quote (I assume):

“At the end of the day, I’m hoping and expecting that a minimum of two and maybe four or five kids between the age of nineteen and twenty-two are on the roster next year that weren’t on the team to start this year,” Holland said.

(Wingsnation)

I'm guessing the minimum two are Svechikov and Hicketts. They're pretty safe bets for the opening night roster and full-time duty.

I'm guessing the other candidates -- for opening night or some point later in the season -- are Rasmussen, Dahlin/A. Svechnikov/Tkachuk/Zadina, Turgeon, Hronek, Cholowski. Is David Pope done with school? Another possibility is a good young player that we get in a trade, e.g. Kasperi Kapanen, Haydn Fleury.

Leave it to Helene to get the quote wrong...

He even clarified it after that he was referring to the opening night roster. Which did not include Bertuzzi so technically he would be included in those numbers. Which makes more sense for Holland...

[Dabura 12,207]

3 hours ago, RightWeiner said:

Leave it to Helene to get the quote wrong...

He even clarified it after that he was referring to the opening night roster. Which did not include Bertuzzi so technically he would be included in those numbers. Which makes more sense for Holland...

But Holland's saying the new kids would fall in the 19-22 age range (I think?), so 23-year-old Bertuzzi wouldn't be included, right?

I could watch his presser for myself and probably answer all of my questions...but I don't want to.

[RightWeiner 17]

19 hours ago, Dabura said:

But Holland's saying the new kids would fall in the 19-22 age range (I think?), so 23-year-old Bertuzzi wouldn't be included, right?

I could watch his presser for myself and probably answer all of my questions...but I don't want to.

Technically...right. However I do think Holland includes Bertuzzi when talking about the next generation of 19-22yr olds. 

If only there was roster management guru we could ask...

[Dabura 12,207]

2 minutes ago, RightWeiner said:

Technically...right. However I do think Holland includes Bertuzzi when talking about the next generation of 19-22yr olds. 

Prob'ly.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

23 hours ago, Dabura said:

But Holland's saying the new kids would fall in the 19-22 age range (I think?), so 23-year-old Bertuzzi wouldn't be included, right?

I could watch his presser for myself and probably answer all of my questions...but I don't want to.

 

4 hours ago, RightWeiner said:

Technically...right. However I do think Holland includes Bertuzzi when talking about the next generation of 19-22yr olds. 

If only there was roster management guru we could ask...

Is  there such a thing as a "moot" button? 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

EAST 1ST ROUND - GAME 1, PHI leads 1-0

 

 

See what happens when you trust the process.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 3:10 PM, RightWeiner said:

Technically...right. However I do think Holland includes Bertuzzi when talking about the next generation of 19-22yr olds. 

If only there was roster management guru we could ask...

If only there was a way to block all IP Adressess from Fullerton California.

Anyway, even though I'm a fan of AA, if he, in some sort of package, brought us someone like Trouba, id have to do the deal. I hope AA stays and become a top line sniper, but we need D. 

Imagine getting Dahlin then making a deal for Trouba! 

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 10:11 PM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Nah. She's a Caps fan.

 

Plus I was using a shared work computer with an internet filter, so I don't know why I was getting those ads. Couldn't download her "body of work" if I tried.

Although she did threaten to streak at a Nationals game if her tweet hit a certain number once. If she would be willing to do that for a Caps Cup, it would just give me more reason to root for them.

Mia? Nah, I prefer Shakira. Plus we see which team she prefers!

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by LeftWinger

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Anyway, even though I'm a fan of AA, if he, in some sort of package, brought us someone like Trouba, id have to do the deal. I hope AA stays and become a top line sniper, but we need D.

Ain't no way we're gettting Trouba. The Oilers gave up Taylor Hall to get Adam Larsson. The Jackets gave up Ryan Johansen to get Seth Jones. The Bolts gave up Jonathan Drouin to get Mikhail Sergachev. The Avs gave up Matt Duchene to get Samuel Girard. To get Trouba, the Wings would have to give up Larkin.

The way I see it (and, granted, I could be wrong), if Holland tries to trade AA and he wants a young defenseman in return, he'll have to aim significantly lower than a guy like Trouba/Hanifin/Montour.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Dabura

[LeftWinger 4,953]

So I guess the question is then, if we're shopping one of our bright young players in AA, who are some examples of defensemen he could bring in return and would they make our D significantly better? I don't want to trade him for more of what we have. Especially not a 30 something guy. If were not upgrading, then no trade and hope for a gem in the draft and look UFA this or next July.

[RightWeiner 17]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

So I guess the question is then, if we're shopping one of our bright young players in AA, who are some examples of defensemen he could bring in return and would they make our D significantly better? I don't want to trade him for more of what we have. Especially not a 30 something guy. If were not upgrading, then no trade and hope for a gem in the draft and look UFA this or next July.

No one. AA is not going to fetch a defenceman who "would make our D significantly better." He doesn't have that kind of value. Good defencemen are expensive and would cost alot more than AA.  I don't think we're willing to give up other picks or decent prospects. 

No, adding Nyquist does not get the deal done.

[Dabura 12,207]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I don't want to trade him for more of what we have.

That's the rub. Can Holland find a return that'd justify moving AA in the first place? (Assuming AA doesn't say he wants out, forcing Holland to settle for whatever he can get.)

If we're looking for a young defenseman in return for AA, Carolina's probably the best fit, unless the Wings and Hurricanes are still refusing to do business with each other. But even then, we're talking, like, Haydn Fleury, who I like but don't necessarily believe is going to be a really good top-pairing defenseman in this league. Maybe Jake Bean. I don't think AA or any package built around AA gets us Jusin Faulk. The Flyers would probably trip over themselves to make a Robert Hagg-AA swap happen, and I fear that Holland might actually find that kind of trade palatable.

Point being, AA doesn't get us a true stud defenseman. Unless we take a chance on a decent prospect who exceeds all expectations and blossoms into a stud. I think the realistic return for AA is a Boone Jenner or a 2nd-round pick in next year's draft. I firmly believe his trade value is low. We like him because he shows flashes of brilliance and he can be really exciting and we're sorely lacking stuff like that, but at the moment he's really nothing more than a middle-six winger. Every team has a middle-six winger that can give them 16 goals and 35 points. Maybe he does really well alongside some elite talent, but that possibility isn't enough to get a team to cough up a young high-end NHL defenseman.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Dabura

[DickieDunn 2,571]

AA and Vegas' 1st might get a quality d-man.

[RightWeiner 17]

14 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

AA and Vegas' 1st might get a quality d-man.

I can't imagine many scenarios where that would make sense for us. 

Might as well just keep AA and draft a defencemen.

 

...and I'm not even a huge AA fan.

[Dabura 12,207]

4 minutes ago, RightWeiner said:

I can't imagine many scenarios where that would make sense for us. 

Might as well just keep AA and draft a defencemen.

 

...and I'm not even a huge AA fan.

Right. There's the rub again.

AA + late 1st for a quality defenseman sounds reasonable enough...but when you start combing through organizations' depth charts and you consider the way GMs are fetishizing young defensemen, there are exceedingly few realistic matches that would clearly justify moving AA and the late 1st, i.e. we're probably not getting a solid top-four defenseman or a defense prospect who's more promising than Hronek or Cholowski are right now.

At best, we're probably looking at a lateral move, a wash. It's kinda depressing, but it's safe to say it's the reality. Middle-six winger with an ego who can't win board battles and is bad defensively and will probably end up in the KHL + late 1st just doesn't get you much these days.

Then again, Marc Bergevin and Peter Chiarelli are GMs. Don't stop believing.

[Dabura 12,207]

The fundamental problem here is that the Wings' system is extremely low on players with really substantial trade value. (Another way of saying we don't have enough high-end talent.) This means that in addition to our trade options being incredibly limited, any big trades that we could pull off probably wouldn't do much for us -- and, indeed, could easily hurt us.

Trade Larkin for a stud defenseman and now we're in need of a stud centerman, with only one other high-end centerman in the system (Rasmussen) and with no guarantee that the stud defenseman we're getting is going to work out for us the way we're hoping he will.

Trade Mantha for a stud defenseman and now we're in need of a stud scoring winger, with essentially zero comparable wingers in the system and, again, with no guarantee that the stud defenseman is going to be a stud for us.

Trade Svechnikov and you're not even getting a 1st-round pick in return. Nyquist might get us a 1st at next season's trade deadline. Trade Hronek or Cholowski and you're giving up one of our top two D prospects.

This is why I'm so excited about the next couple of drafts. The Wings have learned to scrape by in drought conditions, but now they're finally in for some heavy rain. 21(+) picks across two very deep drafts means a hell of a lot more to the Wings than it would to most other organizations. The 2018 draft alone could totally reshape our talent pool. We could double the number of Rasmussen/Cholowski/Hronek-tier prospects in our system practically overnight.