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LeftWinger

Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

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21 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

"Rebuild" means you don't trade young roster players, prospects, or draft picks for high-priced soon to be free agents. You do totally the opposite.

Rebuilds take many forms. A blend of solid proven commodities blended with hungry talented youth is what we really need. The thought you forego a talent like OEL to keep rosters spots for young guys that may pan out isn’t smart business. The wings have had a glut of average winger talent that has needed to be weeded outfit years.

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17 minutes ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

Rebuilds take many forms. A blend of solid proven commodities blended with hungry talented youth is what we really need. The thought you forego a talent like OEL to keep rosters spots for young guys that may pan out isn’t smart business. The wings have had a glut of average winger talent that has needed to be weeded outfit years.

The bolded I agree with. I'm sure most would. However, I don't think anyone is saying they don't want Ekman-Larsson. Just that it's going to take far more than most would be willing to give up, for only one guaranteed year of the player. Yes, we have a glut of average wingers, but we can't get OEL in exchange for those average wingers...

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8 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I somewhat agree with Marc here, even though his attitude is less than pleasing.  It's a GREAT start for us.  Not even close to a start for Phoenix.  4th round pick and Thornton for Larkin?  No.  San Jose says "it's a start."  No.   It's not even anything for us.  Don't fall into the KRSmith method of trade offers.  If we don't have at least some hesitation, it's a trade that is not going to happen.  We are NOT going to get first pairing defensemen in the beginning of their primes for our 2nd line talent.  

 

Mikhail Sergachev for Svechnikov and a 2nd.  - KRSmith 

1

Keep that salt coming. I love it.

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The bolded I agree with. I'm sure most would. However, I don't think anyone is saying they don't want Ekman-Larsson. Just that it's going to take far more than most would be willing to give up, for only one guaranteed year of the player. Yes, we have a glut of average wingers, but we can't get OEL in exchange for those average wingers...

Correct. OEL would be a great addition for sure. And if there was a way to get him long term in a "hockey trade", I would do it absolutely. The issue for me is that most teams who are going to trade someone like OEL is that they are going to want either an OEL caliber player back (which we don't have) or a combination of younger roster players, prospects or and/or draft picks back (which we do have, but not enough to give up for one player and still rebuild). If I could get a top pair 22-23 year old in exchange for Larkin I would do it. If I could get a good young defenseman with one or 2 picks I would do it. But giving up multiple rebuilding assets for one player (unless we're talking McDavid caliber) is just not the right thing to do at this time. In a few years time, if the team is better, and there are more assets to trade, then yes. But we aren't there yet.

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7 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

...Unfortunately, Winnipeg are a power-house team now and Trouba is finally getting the ice time he deserves, so at this point in his career, I highly doubt he wants to go anywhere, let alone Detroit.

I've also stated several times that I don't want to trade for any established top end defensemen, including Trouba, because the cost would be way more than I'd be willing to pay. If we want to acquire top end talent to solidify our back end, it should be through the draft, and / or trading for high end prospects.

Lowest ice-time of his career this year, actually, but given the state of the team I'm inclined to agree he'd be in no hurry to leave. That said, Winnipeg could get in some cap trouble shortly, with Hellebuyck, Trouba, Morrisey, Stastny (assuming they want to keep him), Wheeler, Laine, Connor, and Myers all due in the next two summers. On the off chance he did want to leave, he likely wouldn't cost all that much.

I don't think AA would be of much interest to them though. They'd likely want the #6, which I wouldn't do, and I'm not sure we have anyone they'd want. Maybe Cholo; I don't know what they think of their defense prospects. Maybe Dekeyser if we retained some salary. Add the Vegas pick plus a throw-away player for optics. He regressed a bit this year after looking like he was breaking out last year, and he's starting to look injury-prone, so it's probably the best time to trade for him. But again, that's all on the assumption that he wants to leave.

32 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:


Correct. OEL would be a great addition for sure. And if there was a way to get him long term in a "hockey trade", I would do it absolutely. The issue for me is that most teams who are going to trade someone like OEL is that they are going to want either an OEL caliber player back (which we don't have) or a combination of younger roster players, prospects or and/or draft picks back (which we do have, but not enough to give up for one player and still rebuild). If I could get a top pair 22-23 year old in exchange for Larkin I would do it. If I could get a good young defenseman with one or 2 picks I would do it. But giving up multiple rebuilding assets for one player (unless we're talking McDavid caliber) is just not the right thing to do at this time. In a few years time, if the team is better, and there are more assets to trade, then yes. But we aren't there yet.

I'd assume if he's traded it would be at the deadline, and they'd be looking for a package similar to what they got for Yandle. Significant risk for a pending UFA, but asset-wise would probably be a good deal. 2019 2nd, 2020 1st (lottery protected), good prospect, maybe a roster filler like Jensen if they need one. Probably throw some conditions in there for resigning him. I think I'd rather hope he'd go to a contender who couldn't resign him, and go after him as a FA, but the trade idea would be worth a look.

 

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The thing is, how many draft picks does Arizona need? They've been drafting in the top half of the draft for how long now? It seems they don't pick the best players most of the time.  It might be time of them to start dealing away draft picks for some established NHL players.  The success of Vegas has to just chap their ass. Not saying we could send them anyone for draft picks, but I just don't see them getting any better through the draft.  Their best draft pick is more than likely going to be traded or leave UFA and they'll probably pick Tkachuk just because of the family ties, which he isn't a bad pick, but they should really pick best player available, if he isn't.  Maybe they select Boqvist in an attempt to keep OEL around, or eventually replace him. Not unless Ottawa takes him instead.

Tell you what though, it's going to be a hell of a TDL this year with the likes of OEL AND Karlsson on the move!

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9 minutes ago, amato said:

Defense please....?

Holland needs to be all over this. For a team as stacked as the Canes are on defense, they can afford to give up a prospect like Bean. Add to that, the fact that they're likely drafting Andrei Svechnikov, they would likely have some interest in his brother, Evgeny. Seems like a pretty good fit there. Svechnikov and one of our late first, early second round picks is what I'd offer for Bean.

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Holland needs to be all over this. For a team as stacked as the Canes are on defense, they can afford to give up a prospect like Bean. Add to that, the fact that they're likely drafting Andrei Svechnikov, they would likely have some interest in his brother, Evgeny. Seems like a pretty good fit there. Svechnikov and one of our late first, early second round picks is what I'd offer for Bean.

No one on our side that was part of Fedorov-gate in ownership (Mr I -RIP) are around to block deals with Carolina either. Get it done Kenny. 

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Holland needs to be all over this. For a team as stacked as the Canes are on defense, they can afford to give up a prospect like Bean. Add to that, the fact that they're likely drafting Andrei Svechnikov, they would likely have some interest in his brother, Evgeny. Seems like a pretty good fit there. Svechnikov and one of our late first, early second round picks is what I'd offer for Bean.

Of course, all of this assumes the Wings and Hurricanes would be willing to deal with each other in the first place. Even with Mike Ilitch now gone, there could still be bad blood.

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2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Holland needs to be all over this. For a team as stacked as the Canes are on defense, they can afford to give up a prospect like Bean. Add to that, the fact that they're likely drafting Andrei Svechnikov, they would likely have some interest in his brother, Evgeny. Seems like a pretty good fit there. Svechnikov and one of our late first, early second round picks is what I'd offer for Bean.

Still think bean will be something great??

What about Slavin?? Maybe the owners looking to get rid of money and seeing as his contract runs 7 yrs at 5 per maybe we can have him at a better price... I'd prefer to keep svech if we can .... What about AA ?

 

Or what about a AA ,saarjarvi type package to Edmonton for the 10th pick to draft kotkaniemi , could be a good center to have for the future , he's been rising up the ranks a lot 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Of course, all of this assumes the Wings and Hurricanes would be willing to deal with each other in the first place. Even with Mike Ilitch now gone, there could still be bad blood.

Canes have a new owner too, so I doubt that is still a thing. 

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1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Canes have a new owner too, so I doubt that is still a thing. 

I hope it isn't still a thing, but it wouldn't really surprise me if it is. I'd thought Mike Ilitch's passing meant Fedorov would finally get his number raised, but then I read something about Marian Ilitch being firmly "over my dead body" on the subject, so...*shrug*.

Karmanos is still pretty high up in the organization (minority owner and chief executive officer), for what it's worth.

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19 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I hope it isn't still a thing, but it wouldn't really surprise me if it is. I'd thought Mike Ilitch's passing meant Fedorov would finally get his number raised, but then I read something about Marian Ilitch being firmly "over my dead body" on the subject, so...*shrug*.

Karmanos is still pretty high up in the organization (minority owner and chief executive officer), for what it's worth.

Where's Dr. Death when you need him!!! Just Kidding!

Maybe we could nab Hanifin?

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5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Maybe we could nab Hanifin?

21 years old...6'3"...drafted 5th overall...great skater...very high ceiling...put up 10 goals and 32 points last season in a role he probably wasn't quite ready for, on a scoring-challenged team........ If I'm Carolina, I only move him if I get an offer I can't refuse.

I'm guessing there's a small group of players that they're going to actively shop. Guys like Skinner (who I like), Faulk (who I like), maybe Lindholm (who I like), maybe Rask (who I like), et al. I think they're going to try to shake up their core by changing out some of the more veteran players. Younger guys like Hanifin probably won't be shopped, but they'll at least listen to offers.

Having said that, I do wonder what it'd cost the Wings to land Hanifin. I wouldn't offer the #6 pick, because there's a good chance that the player taken with that pick will be as good as Hanifin -- and my hope would be that Hughes/Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson + Hanifin would give us a future top pairing.

I've heard talk that the new owner wants the 'canes to become more physically imposing, "tougher to play against." How much would Rasmussen interest them? How much would Bertuzzi interest them? How much would Svechnikov interest them? How much would Vegas's 1st interest them? Maybe some combination of some of those pieces could get it done? Just spitballing.

Edited by Dabura

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53 minutes ago, Dabura said:

How much would Rasmussen interest them? How much would Bertuzzi interest them? How much would Svechnikov interest them? How much would Vegas's 1st interest them? Maybe some combination of some of those pieces could get it done? Just spitballing.

"No." - Hurricanes

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5 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Still think bean will be something great??

What about Slavin?? Maybe the owners looking to get rid of money and seeing as his contract runs 7 yrs at 5 per maybe we can have him at a better price... I'd prefer to keep svech if we can .... What about AA ?

Or what about a AA ,saarjarvi type package to Edmonton for the 10th pick to draft kotkaniemi , could be a good center to have for the future , he's been rising up the ranks a lot 

Yeah, I still think Bean is a future top pair defenseman. Maybe not a number one, but a very good number two. Then we take Bouchard with our 6th overall pick this year, who has number one potential, and all of a sudden you have a future top 4 of Bean - Bouchard, Cholowski - Hronek. A lot of potential there...

I'd rather have Bean over Slavin, or any other defenseman in the Carolina organization (other than Hanifin, who isn't going anywhere), and he'd likely cost less as well. 

I'd probably rather keep Svechnikov over Athanasiou as well, but both are tradeable assets (neither should be off the table), and Svechnikov probably holds more value, being a couple years younger.

Athanasiou and Saarijarvi wouldn't come close to getting us the 10th overall pick. Although, we are talking about Chiarelli, so maybe it would take a lot less than we think...

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17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, I still think Bean is a future top pair defenseman. Maybe not a number one, but a very good number two. Then we take Bouchard with our 6th overall pick this year, who has number one potential, and all of a sudden you have a future top 4 of Bean - Bouchard, Cholowski - Hronek. A lot of potential there...

This is sort of where I was coming from with the Carlson talk. Knowing Holland, and knowing he wants a relatively quick rebuild, I've gotta think he's looking to sign or trade for a defenseman who would "tie the room together" and give us something we can tentatively identify as a future top four. Hughes/Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson + Hronek + Cholowski is a promising group of defense prospects. Add one more high-end defenseman to the group and we could cautiously consider the defense problem addressed and resolved, at least for the time being.

I dunno that I firmly believe Jake Bean is That Guy. It could be worth paying more to acquire a more proven player. But, yeah -- my point is that I think Holland is going to go fishing, starting next month at the draft.

C - Larkin, Rasmussen
W - Mantha, [some guy]
D - [CAR guy], Hughes/Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson, Hronek, Cholowski
G - whocares

Doesn't exactly scream "Back in business!" but it would at least gve us something workable, something to build around.

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2 hours ago, Dabura said:

This is sort of where I was coming from with the Carlson talk. Knowing Holland, and knowing he wants a relatively quick rebuild, I've gotta think he's looking to sign or trade for a defenseman who would "tie the room together" and give us something we can tentatively identify as a future top four. Hughes/Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson + Hronek + Cholowski is a promising group of defense prospects. Add one more high-end defenseman to the group and we could cautiously consider the defense problem addressed and resolved, at least for the time being.

I dunno that I firmly believe Jake Bean is That Guy. It could be worth paying more to acquire a more proven player. But, yeah -- my point is that I think Holland is going to go fishing, starting next month at the draft.

C - Larkin, Rasmussen
W - Mantha, [some guy]
D - [CAR guy], Hughes/Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson, Hronek, Cholowski
G - whocares

Doesn't exactly scream "Back in business!" but it would at least gve us something workable, something to build around.

Our G will end up being Larsson and/or Petruzzelli... in time. I think you might see Larsson get a shot once Howard is gone. They'll go out and try and get Hutton or Bernier this off-season to fill the gap.

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40 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Our G will end up being Larsson and/or Petruzzelli... in time.

Goalies are so hard to accurately assess and project that I just don't even think about them anymore. I'm hoping we have a future stud in Larsson and/or Petruzzelli, but I'm not counting on it...

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23 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I dont get it

I don't either. I prefer Dill Weed. :lol:

6 hours ago, Dabura said:

C - Larkin, Rasmussen
W - Mantha, [some guy]
D - [CAR guy], Hughes/Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson, Hronek, Cholowski
G - whocares

Doesn't exactly scream "Back in business!" but it would at least gve us something workable, something to build around.

I heard Some Guy had a great year in juniors and led his team in playoff scoring. He seems promising, but I am more excited about possibly getting Other Dude. he's legit.

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