Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I get it, its the market. That's fine, but I just don't like it. Sorry.

I too want to lock up both for a long time, I most definitely do NOT want to lose them, I just hate where the market has gone.  I guess once we lose contracts like Kronner's, Jimmy's, possibly Nyquist's it'll ease the hit a bit. I just don't want to turn into the Oilers and give these RFA's coming off there ELC's a 900,000,000 percent raise and then they never do any better. But, don't get me wrong, they ALL deserve raises, especially Larkin and Mantha. Even AA had more points than he did the season prior. It's going to be a huge hit on our available cap space, not thinking we have ANY shot at JT this season or Karlsson/OEL next season.

 

Stay in bed until you have something constructive to add to the conversation. Thx!

[SwedeLundin77 460]

Yeah, it's not ideal, but until the NHL puts in a hard cap, it'll continue to rise. I just hope that Kane getting 7 million doesn't screw everything up. Now that's a DUMB contract.

[krsmith17 7,191]

25 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Yeah, it's not ideal, but until the NHL puts in a hard cap, it'll continue to rise. I just hope that Kane getting 7 million doesn't screw everything up. Now that's a DUMB contract.

That looks like it'll be a pretty bad contract that will likely bite San Jose in the ass, but there are plenty other bad ones out there as well. Those are the one's that the player's agent will point to. But there are still some very good players on great contracts out there. Those (Pastrnak, Ehlers, Monahan, Horvat, Huberdeau, Wennberg, Niederreiter, Zibanejad, Arvidsson, etc...) are the one's that the GM's will point to.

[Dabura 12,207]

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The thing is, they don't even need to become "top tier players" for these deals to work out in our favor though.

Oh, definitely. Didn't mean to imply that that's the only way I'd be ok with your proposed deals.

I firmly believe that Larkin and Mantha have the potential to become good enough NHLers that your proposed deals would look like steals in a year or two. I get where you're coming from and I don't fully disagree with you. I guess what it comes down to, for me, is that I'm wary of handing RFAs really long-term deals unless it's an absolute no-brainer. Personally, I don't think it's an absolute no-brainer here. Larkin's had one good season as a kinda-sorta 1C, and even then he failed to hit 20 goals. Mantha's coming off an overall solid season and he seems poised to really break out next season, but I think four years is the longest I'd go with the term. It's definitely possible -- perhaps even likely -- that a bridge deal ends up biting us in the ass, but I'd rather force him to prove himself and "leave no doubt" than give him a huge deal when he hasn't even hit 20 goals or 50 points in a seaon. (Though, to be fair, he's only played one full season.) We've got to be careful with RFAs. We've got to be careful with precedents.

Also worth considering: While Larkin and Mantha are the current jewels in our youth movement crown, we have 21(+) picks across two deep drafts. It's entirely possible that we come away from those drafts with several Larkin/Mantha-caliber players. All of a sudden, Larkin and Mantha might not be quite so important and we might have several new young players who will need to Get Paid in a few years. If the Jets are The New Model, we need to find multiple Mantha-tier players (forwards and defensemen).

2 hours ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Yeah, it's not ideal, but until the NHL puts in a hard cap, it'll continue to rise.

Lockout to the rescue!

Edited May 23, 2018 by Dabura

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I get it, its the market. That's fine, but I just don't like it. Sorry.

I too want to lock up both for a long time, I most definitely do NOT want to lose them, I just hate where the market has gone.  I guess once we lose contracts like Kronner's, Jimmy's, possibly Nyquist's it'll ease the hit a bit. I just don't want to turn into the Oilers and give these RFA's coming off there ELC's a 900,000,000 percent raise and then they never do any better. But, don't get me wrong, they ALL deserve raises, especially Larkin and Mantha. Even AA had more points than he did the season prior. It's going to be a huge hit on our available cap space, not thinking we have ANY shot at JT this season or Karlsson/OEL next season.

 

Stay in bed until you have something constructive to add to the conversation. Thx!

$8,325,000,000,000 per year for Larkin would be slightly over the cap

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Larkin 4 years, 5.75 mil per.

Mantha, 4 years, 4 mil per.

AA, 4 years, 2.75 mil per.

Bertuzzi, 4 years, 2 mil per.

Frk, 4 years,  1.25 mil per.

Bouchard, 4 years, 1 mil per.

 

Get that core locked in.

 

Then start unloading the CRAP.

 

 

I'm not good at guessing what a player's contract might be, so I usually don't try. I will say that I don't think AA would take that deal, based on the last contract negotiation.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Oh, definitely. Didn't mean to imply that that's the only way I'd be ok with your proposed deals.

I firmly believe that Larkin and Mantha have the potential to become good enough NHLers that your proposed deals would look like steals in a year or two. I get where you're coming from and I don't fully disagree with you. I guess what it comes down to, for me, is that I'm wary of handing RFAs really long-term deals unless it's an absolute no-brainer. Personally, I don't think it's an absolute no-brainer here. Larkin's had one good season as a kinda-sorta 1C, and even then he failed to hit 20 goals. Mantha's coming off an overall solid season and he seems poised to really break out next season, but I think four years is the longest I'd go with the term. It's definitely possible -- perhaps even likely -- that a bridge deal ends up biting us in the ass, but I'd rather force him to prove himself and "leave no doubt" than give him a huge deal when he hasn't even hit 20 goals or 50 points in a seaon. (Though, to be fair, he's only played one full season.) We've got to be careful with RFAs. We've got to be careful with precedents.

Also worth considering: While Larkin and Mantha are the current jewels in our youth movement crown, we have 21(+) picks across two deep drafts. It's entirely possible that we come away from those drafts with several Larkin/Mantha-caliber players. All of a sudden, Larkin and Mantha might not be quite so important and we might have several new young players who will need to Get Paid in a few years. If the Jets are The New Model, we need to find multiple Mantha-tier players (forwards and defensemen).

Lockout to the rescue!

To me, Larkin is a no-brainer. I have full confidence he would play above that contract for the duration of the contract. Mantha isn't such a sure thing, but I'd still bet on him playing above that contract as well.

The thing is, this is all likely a moot point, because in all likelihood, Larkin and Mantha will both sign contracts closer to what you're suggesting, possibly even less. I think Larkin at 4-6 years and Mantha at 2-4 years is more likely what we'll see. It's just not what I'd like to see. Holland is a master at re-signing his RFA's to bridge deals. We know that. What we don't know for sure is if he's good at re-signing his RFA's to long term deals. I'm hoping he leans more toward long term with these two, but I'm not sure he will. 

If we have an influx of good young talent that are looking to get paid, we pay them. By the time that were to happen, we'd have more than enough cap space. Nyquist, Kronwall and Howard will be off the books after this season, and Franzen, Ericsson and Daley will be gone after the following season. That's over $26M coming off the books in two offseasons. All of which are mediocre players that can be replaced from within, hopefully by an influx of very talented young kids.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Larkin 4 years, 5.75 mil per.

Mantha, 4 years, 4 mil per.

AA, 4 years, 2.75 mil per.

Bertuzzi, 4 years, 2 mil per.

Frk, 4 years,  1.25 mil per.

Bouchard, 4 years, 1 mil per.

Get that core locked in.

Then start unloading the CRAP.

Of all those players, the only one likely to get 4 years, I would say is Mantha (unfortunately). I doubt any of Athanasiou, Bertuzzi or Frk get 4 years. Bouchard can't get 4 years or $1M. IF we draft him, he'll sign the max ELC which is $950K for 3 years.

15 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

I'm not good at guessing what a player's contract might be, so I usually don't try. I will say that I don't think AA would take that deal, based on the last contract negotiation.

Athanasiou is eligible for arbitration this year. A deal will likely be made before it gets that far though, unless he's traded. If they do go through an arbitrator (unlikely), I think he would get a higher AAV, and a year or two less term.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

34 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

To me, Larkin is a no-brainer. I have full confidence he would play above that contract for the duration of the contract. Mantha isn't such a sure thing, but I'd still bet on him playing above that contract as well.

The thing is, this is all likely a moot point, because in all likelihood, Larkin and Mantha will both sign contracts closer to what you're suggesting, possibly even less. I think Larkin at 4-6 years and Mantha at 2-4 years is more likely what we'll see. It's just not what I'd like to see. Holland is a master at re-signing his RFA's to bridge deals. We know that. What we don't know for sure is if he's good at re-signing his RFA's to long term deals. I'm hoping he leans more toward long term with these two, but I'm not sure he will. 

If we have an influx of good young talent that are looking to get paid, we pay them. By the time that were to happen, we'd have more than enough cap space. Nyquist, Kronwall and Howard will be off the books after this season, and Franzen, Ericsson and Daley will be gone after the following season. That's over $26M coming off the books in two offseasons. All of which are mediocre players that can be replaced from within, hopefully by an influx of very talented young kids.

Mantha plays just like Franzen, which is how I know he'll play well above his contract.

[joesuffP 1,746]

Mantha expressed he would like a short bridge deal. I think we’ll be happy with how Holland handles the RFA’s

Management loves Larkin so I wouldn’t be suprised with 6-8 years @ 6.5ish

Mantha 1-2 years @ 4M

The rest short term @ 1-2M

Green won’t be signed all summer than Holland gets him resigned cheap for short term. No way Holland offers 3+ years and teams will be scared of his neck injury

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by joesuffP

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Definetly have to get Larkin signed to a 7-8 year scheifele type deal  so we get some benefits down the road , I'd do the same with mantha if possible if he wants a shorter deal I'd push for 3 years at like 4.5 unless that deal would lead him to  ufa status , it's time to give him increased ice time and no doubt he's gonna be a 30 goal guy 

Like frk but we barely play him as it is and we have kids coming,  one year is fine in his case 

As for AA I'd give him A 3 to 5 yr deal if we weren't gonna keep dicking him around with his ice time but I have a feeling he's gonna moved around  the draft unfortunately... if it helps us land a young d like bean then by all means I'm down , it would then allow us to possibly draft wahlstrom 

Edited May 23, 2018 by nyqvististhefuture

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Definetly have to get Larkin signed to a 7-8 year scheifele type deal  so we get some benefits down the road , I'd do the same with mantha if possible if he wants a shorter deal I'd push for 3 years at like 4.5 unless that deal would lead him to  ufa status , it's time to give him increased ice time and no doubt he's gonna be a 30 goal guy 

Like frk but we barely play him as it is and we have kids coming,  one year is fine in his case 

As for AA I'd give him A 3 to 5 yr deal if we weren't gonna keep dicking him around with his ice time but I have a feeling he's gonna moved around  the draft unfortunately... if it helps us land a young d like bean then by all means I'm down , it would then allow us to possibly draft wahlstrom 

#wahlstromisthefuture

22 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

if we spend over $10M on Mantha and Larkin, we're in deep doo doo. TOO MUCH MONEY!

if that is the market, then the NHL is in deep doo doo

Signing Larkin and Mantha long term for 10-11 mil a year would be a great deal.

You know what's not? Kane and Toews for $ 21,000,000 a year.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Larkin 4 years, 5.75 mil per.

Mantha, 4 years, 4 mil per.

AA, 4 years, 2.75 mil per.

Bertuzzi, 4 years, 2 mil per.

Frk, 4 years,  1.25 mil per.

Bouchard, 4 years, 1 mil per.

 

Get that core locked in.

 

Then start unloading the CRAP.

 

 

Larkin will get more term and money probably 8 years $52 million or $6.5 million per AAV. AA probably gets 2 years $6 million both Bertuzzi and Frk get 2 years Mantha 2 or 3 years probably in the $4.5 million per range.

[TLGTrico 627]

Doesn't Mantha have worth ethic issues?  If that's the case, I'd be cautious about signing him long term.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

23 minutes ago, TLGTrico said:

Doesn't Mantha have worth ethic issues?  If that's the case, I'd be cautious about signing him long term.

His work ethic is better than AA's.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

27 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

His work ethic is better than AA's.

We need triple AAAs

[LeftWinger 4,961]

11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

#wahlstromisthefuture

Signing Larkin and Mantha long term for 10-11 mil a year would be a great deal.

You know what's not? Kane and Toews for $ 21,000,000 a year.

Yes, you are right....i still hate the market.

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

We need triple AAAs

So 9 A's?

Edited May 24, 2018 by LeftWinger

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

13 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

#wahlstromisthefuture

 

Fortwayneisthefuture 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Yes, you are right....i still hate the market.

So 9 A's?

Yes

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

9 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Fortwayneisthefuture 

I don't get it.

18 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

We need triple AAAs

Actually we need DD's.

The Wings have:

 Danny DeKeyser

The Kings have:

 Drew Doughty

The Capitals have:

 Mia Khalifa

Maybe we can trade our DD for LA's DD or DC's DD's. Get it done.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Remember when The Ducks had Lucy Lawless?

 

I still think that was on purpose MUCH like the Janet Jackson incident which was 100% on purpose! Before the commercial the announcer said, and I quote "When we come back, Janet Jackson, Justin Timberlake and we're told, a special guest." Who do you think the special quest was? Nobody else sang with them!

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

24 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Remember when The Ducks had Lucy Lawless?

 

I still think that was on purpose MUCH like the Janet Jackson incident which was 100% on purpose! Before the commercial the announcer said, and I quote "When we come back, Janet Jackson, Justin Timberlake and we're told, a special guest." Who do you think the special quest was? Nobody else sang with them!

Neither was all that impressive TBH.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Looking at the updated cap-friendly,  the glaring problems to me are the Dekeyser and Neilsen contracts...

[krsmith17 7,191]

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 

Holland signed a young draft pick to a contract? Doing the same things he does every year I see, back to page 1. This is getting scary...