Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

20 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

That's what I'm thinking, too. Svechnikov was given a chance last season and if you look at what analysts and such said, he played very well and did all the little things right. The thought is that if Blashill actually gives him legit ice time, he'll become more lethal on the score sheet and be just fine. My opinion is that he needs to be on the starting roster. Trade Witkowski who is, essentially, dead weight.

Svechnikov is garbage, and that's why he'll probably end up on the Griffins again. He should be traded before other teams realize this fact, like Smith and Jurco. Otherwise were gonna end up in a Mrazek-esque situation where were trading a formerly high valued player for cheap. 

18 hours ago, amato said:

Can these Jack and Squat guys play defense though? Might be worth it.. 

They're no Tippet/Hague

Edited June 15, 2018 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[SwedeLundin77 460]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Svechnikov is garbage, and that's why he'll probably end up on the Griffins again. He should be traded before other teams realize this fact, like Smith and Jurco. Otherwise were gonna end up in a Mrazek-esque situation where were trading a formerly high valued player for cheap. 

They're no Tippet/Hague

Awesome... way to give the kid a chance to prove he can make it. I'm happy you're not in charge of player development, they'd be royally screwed. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Awesome... way to give the kid a chance to prove he can make it. I'm happy you're not in charge of player development, they'd be royally screwed. 

I gave him a chance this last year, and I think he's alarmingly behind where he should be. He and Larkin are a few months apart in age, a few places apart in draft selection, and yet Larkin has 140 pts in the NHL and Evgeny has 8. And I sometimes exaggerate a bit, so let me clarify: He might not be Kory Kocur level garbage, I'll concede that. But I think there's a very real possibility he could be Nail Yakupov garbage level.. he's certainly trending that way. So I've called it already, but I'll call it again, Svechnikov has the suck!

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Steve Yzerman went #4.  The top 7-10 picks in this draft are pretty surefire NHL 1st line/1st d pairing players.  Why would you NOT trade a slow, offense only, Franzen ceiling like sniper + prospect + pick 30 (prospect) + pick 36 (prospect) for a sure fire 1st liner with Yzerman level ceiling?  

We're now comparing Zadina to Yzerman? Seriously? I thought Laine was a bit of a stretch, but we're now comparing him to one of the top 10 forwards of all time? Okay...

No, the top 7-10 are not "surefire NHL 1st line / 1st d pairing players". Not even close. Any one of them could bust (relative to expectations). They're kids. Anything can happen.

Mantha is slow? LOL do you even watch Red Wings games? Mantha is anything but slow...

I'd love to have Zadina, but I wouldn't trade that sort of package for him. I'd much rather keep our 6th overall, and use those assets (minus Mantha) to trade up for another top 10 pick. If there were a Zadina equivalent center or defenseman available at 3, I'd consider it, but I'm not massively overpaying for another winger (elite or not). 

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I gave him a chance this last year, and I think he's alarmingly behind where he should be. He and Larkin are a few months apart in age, a few places apart in draft selection, and yet Larkin has 140 pts in the NHL and Evgeny has 8. And I sometimes exaggerate a bit, so let me clarify: He might not be Kory Kocur level garbage, I'll concede that. But I think there's a very real possibility he could be Nail Yakupov garbage level.. he's certainly trending that way. So I've called it already, but I'll call it again, Svechnikov has the suck!

I'm not as high on Svechnikov as some. Never have been. But he definitely doesn't suck. I've said before that I'd be open to trading him, and I would. But if he's still with the organization on opening night, he should be with the Wings, not the Griffins. If we're serious about rebuilding this team, we need to give the "kids" every opportunity to make the team, whether we think they're top 6 forwards / top 3 defensemen, or bottom 6 forwards / bottom 3 defensemen. I don't see Hicketts as anything more than a bottom pairing defenseman. I don't see Turgeon as anything more than a 4th (maybe 3rd) line center. I'd still like to see them both given an opportunity over some of the vets on this team.

Also, I don't think it's fair to compare Svechnikov to Larkin. Svechnikov's progression as a mid-late round pick is much more the norm than Larkin's progression.

[krsmith17 7,191]

53 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

No one knew Yzerman was going to be Yzerman.  Minnesota and Hartford would probably like to rechoose if given the chance.  I'm not comparing Zadina to Yzerman. I'm illustrating that a number 3 selection has a much greater chance of having a higher ceiling and reaching it than the guys we would be giving up in that trade scenario.  I don't like giving up Mantha and 3 good prospects.  But getting a legit first line winger is important.  All signs are pointing to Zadina being just that.

You did compare Zadina to Yzerman... "sure fire 1st liner with Yzerman level ceiling".

Exactly, no one knew Yzerman was going to be Yzerman. Just like no one knows what Zadina, Tkatchuk, Wahlstrom, Bouchard, Dobson, Hughes, etc are going to be. That's my point. Zadina could become a star, similar to Laine. He could also become an average player, similar to many of the players I mentioned previously taken 3rd overall, or a Puljujarvi. He may not ever be as good as Mantha. I'd say the chances of him being as good, or even a little better are fairly high (not guaranteed), but to me, it's still not worth giving up a player that already projects (despite what you say) as a top line scoring winger, plus 3 other high end assets.

Let's just say Zadina becomes an 80-90 point elite, top line winger, Mantha becomes a 60-70 point top line winger, Cholowski becomes a 20-30 point top 4 defenseman, Bokk becomes a 40-50 point 2nd line winger, and Miller becomes a 20-30 point top 4 defenseman. I'd say that's somewhat realistic. Who wins the trade? Or you could say, what if Zadina becomes a 100+ point generational, top line winger, Mantha tops out as a 50 point average, 2nd line winger, Cholowski tops out as a 20 point bottom pair defenseman, and we draft two busts... Not very realistic.

Anyway, I don't want to trade up into the top 5. It rarely works out, and usually benefits the team trading back. I'm betting when we look back on what could have been in a couple years, most will say this would have been (because it's not going to happen) a bad trade.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not saying I necessarily think Zadina will be an 80-90 point player, just that it is a possibility. A possibility that most are banking on. I actually think it's just as likely that he becomes a 70ish point player, which is still great, just not worth a massive overpayment...

Edited June 15, 2018 by krsmith17

[joesuffP 1,746]

I can see Svechnikov having a Mantha type development with its ups and downs and it will be a while before he can make a name for himself in the NHL. If he doesn’t have the skill to be a good scorer in the NHL he has the build to be a good defensive forward too. The Wings will be able to make him an NHL player one way or another

[SwedeLundin77 460]

I’d say at least give Svech a decent chance to show what he’s got at the NHL level before taking a dump on him. I’m not against trading him either.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not as high on Svechnikov as some. Never have been. But he definitely doesn't suck. I've said before that I'd be open to trading him, and I would. But if he's still with the organization on opening night, he should be with the Wings, not the Griffins. If we're serious about rebuilding this team, we need to give the "kids" every opportunity to make the team, whether we think they're top 6 forwards / top 3 defensemen, or bottom 6 forwards / bottom 3 defensemen. I don't see Hicketts as anything more than a bottom pairing defenseman. I don't see Turgeon as anything more than a 4th (maybe 3rd) line center. I'd still like to see them both given an opportunity over some of the vets on this team.

Also, I don't think it's fair to compare Svechnikov to Larkin. Svechnikov's progression as a mid-late round pick is much more the norm than Larkin's progression.

SwedeLundin, is Smitty gonna fight all your battles for you?

Svechnikov is a Sheahan/Kindl/Smith. He's gonna be a big fat disappointment. A big fat mistake. You want him on the Wings on opening day, but I can almost guarantee he won't be. He's not shown he's good enough up to this point. He should be traded pronto while he still has some 1st rounder value.

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

SwedeLundin, is Smitty gonna fight all your battles for you?

Svechnikov is a Sheahan/Kindl/Smith. He's gonna be a big fat disappointment. A big fat mistake. You want him on the Wings on opening day, but I can almost guarantee he won't be. He's not shown he's good enough up to this point. He should be traded pronto while he still has some 1st rounder value.

What battle? As I said, I'm not that high on Svechnikov. I just disagree with you that he "sucks", and doesn't deserve an opportunity to prove himself...

Edited June 15, 2018 by krsmith17

[BinMucker94 302]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

SwedeLundin, is Smitty gonna fight all your battles for you?

Svechnikov is a Sheahan/Kindl/Smith. He's gonna be a big fat disappointment. A big fat mistake. You want him on the Wings on opening day, but I can almost guarantee he won't be. He's not shown he's good enough up to this point. He should be traded pronto while he still has some 1st rounder value.

While I don’t think he is going to be that big of a disappointment, I do think we should be looking to move Svechnikov at the draft. He could easily be packaged to bring in a high potential D prospect. Holland also has enough draft picks over the next couple of drafts to restock the cupboard with forward prospects. If he isn’t moved and he shows he can’t hack it then Holland loses out on possibly bringing in a key piece. And we’ll be stuck with yet another dud.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

Umm what battle? As I said, I'm not that high on Svechnikov. I just disagree with you that he "sucks", and doesn't deserve an opportunity to prove himself...

You've taken over arguing his/yours POV in multiple threads now

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You've taken over arguing his/yours POV in multiple threads now

I'm not taking over. Swede can speak for him/herself, I just agree with him/her, and disagree with you on this one. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not taking over. Swede can speak for him/herself, I just agree with him/her, and disagree with you on this one. 

....I'm slighting him, not you

[Dabura 12,207]

Is it July yet?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Is it July yet?

[krsmith17 7,191]

19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

....I'm slighting him, not you

I'm aware of that. Just saying I'm not "taking over", just voicing my opinion.

19 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Is it July yet?

Is it June 22nd yet?

Is it October yet?

[krsmith17 7,191]

Is it September 19th yet?

 

[Dabura 12,207]

Is this the real life?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Is this the real life?

[SwedeLundin77 460]

Oh, how slighted I feel, that in a message forum, someone else happened to have the same opinion I did and voiced it. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Oh, how slighted I feel, that in a message forum, someone else happened to have the same opinion I did and voiced it. 

Are you gonna cry?

[SwedeLundin77 460]

7 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Are you gonna cry?

You need to seriously check your interpretation of text "emotions." Fairly certain the gif hit home the "sarcasm." Do we want to get back to talking hockey or are you just going to troll on? 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, SwedeLundin77 said:

You need to seriously check your interpretation of text "emotions." Fairly certain the gif hit home the "sarcasm." Do we want to get back to talking hockey or are you just going to troll on? 

There there

[SwedeLundin77 460]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

There there

The troll is strong with you.