Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I was for signing Vanek before Frk was resigned. Signing both will create a logjam at F.

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I was for signing Vanek before Frk was resigned. Signing both will create a logjam at F.

Frk can and likely will be waived though. There's still a logjam without Frk. There's still rumblings that Zetterberg could be done, but I'm hoping that's not the case. As of now though, we have Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Vanek, Helm, Abdelkader, Glendening, Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, Frk, Witkowski, Rasmussen, Svechnikov and Zadina. That's 16 forwards vying for 14 spots. Keep in mind, you want a Witkowski and possibly Frk (unless it's going to be Glendening) in that group of 14 as the two healthy scratches most nights. Svechnikov can, and likely will be sent down to Grand Rapids, but you still need to free up one more spot to fit Zadina in. A trade NEEDS to happen...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Frk can and likely will be waived though. There's still a logjam without Frk. There's still rumblings that Zetterberg could be done, but I'm hoping that's not the case. As of now though, we have Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Vanek, Helm, Abdelkader, Glendening, Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, Frk, Witkowski, Rasmussen, Svechnikov and Zadina. That's 16 forwards vying for 14 spots. Keep in mind, you want a Witkowski and possibly Frk (unless it's going to be Glendening) in that group of 14 as the two healthy scratches most nights. Svechnikov can, and likely will be sent down to Grand Rapids, but you still need to free up one more spot to fit Zadina in. A trade NEEDS to happen...

Which is why I wouldn't have re-signed Frk and would send Svech down to GR to stat the season. I think he could use the opportunity to have a solid bounce back season down there. No logjam then.That said the roster is what it is. They could send down Svech without waivers, but I have a feeling that Frk might get claimed (Carolina) again. I think if they had known about Zadina not being able to be sent to GR, they may not have brought back Vanek or re-signed Frk.

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Which is why I wouldn't have re-signed Frk and would send Svech down to GR to stat the season. I think he could use the opportunity to have a solid bounce back season down there. No logjam then.That said the roster is what it is. They could send down Svech without waivers, but I have a feeling that Frk might get claimed (Carolina) again. I think if they had known about Zadina not being able to be sent to GR, they may not have brought back Vanek or re-signed Frk.

You missed the part where I said "Keep in mind, you want a Witkowski and possibly Frk (unless it's going to be Glendening) in that group of 14 as the two healthy scratches most nights."

Glendening isn't going to be a regular healthy scratch, we already went over this. Neither is Helm or Abdelkader or whoever else. We need Witkowski and Frk on the roster as the 13th/14th forwards. Or we need to make a trade (or two). Otherwise, Zadina will be back in Halifax, barring an early injury in training camp...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You missed the part where I said "Keep in mind, you want a Witkowski and possibly Frk (unless it's going to be Glendening) in that group of 14 as the two healthy scratches most nights."

Glendening isn't going to be a regular healthy scratch, we already went over this. Neither is Helm or Abdelkader or whoever else. We need Witkowski and Frk on the roster as the 13th/14th forwards. Or we need to make a trade (or two). Otherwise, Zadina will be back in Halifax, barring an early injury in training camp...

Have you not learned by now that I don't listen to people when they disagree with me?

And it's what I would do, not what they will do.

[Dabura 12,207]

Trade Shanahan. He is old and lazy and he sucks and I don't know what he's still doing on the team tbh.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

Trade Shanahan. He is old and lazy and he sucks and I don't know what he's still doing on the team tbh.

We could use him to get Tavares. Maybe accidentally put them on the same flight or something.

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

We could use him to get Tavares. Maybe accidentally put them on the same flight or something.

Now I'm sad.

[Dabura 12,207]

Speaking of sad...

• No Tavares
• No Karlsson
• No Doughty
• No Ekman-Larsson
• Defense is still s***, no elite defense prospects in the pipeline

Not sure how the Wings rebuild-on-the-fly themselves out of this.

[Keep Your Stick On the Ice 67]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Speaking of sad...

• No Tavares
• No Karlsson
• No Doughty
• No Ekman-Larsson
• Defense is still s***, no elite defense prospects in the pipeline

Not sure how the Wings rebuild-on-the-fly themselves out of this.

agreed.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Speaking of sad...

• No Tavares
• No Karlsson
• No Doughty
• No Ekman-Larsson
• Defense is still s***, no elite defense prospects in the pipeline

Not sure how the Wings rebuild-on-the-fly themselves out of this.

mike green

Edited July 4, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Dabura 12,207]

26 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

mike green

max pacioretty (only 29!)

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Speaking of sad...

• No Tavares
• No Karlsson
• No Doughty
• No Ekman-Larsson
• Defense is still s***, no elite defense prospects in the pipeline

Not sure how the Wings rebuild-on-the-fly themselves out of this.

Well, I mean, according to LGWs we don't want to win any games anyway anytime soon. So you're just highlighting a bunch of positives here. 

[LeftWinger 4,951]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

Speaking of sad...

• No Tavares
• No Karlsson
• No Doughty
• No Ekman-Larsson
• Defense is still s***, no elite defense prospects in the pipeline

Not sure how the Wings rebuild-on-the-fly themselves out of this.

Possible deal for Trouba still? I'd love to get Karlsson, but the price is probabl WAY too much, plus I don't think Holland has the cap to take on the Ryan contract.  I think it would cost less (still expensive though) to acquire Trouba. Re-signing him would be a snap, being that he is from here. Honestly, looking at the two, even though Karlsson has the Norris and pedigree, I think it would be more beneficial for the Wings to pursue Trouba.

If Trouba becomes a tough re-sign again in The 'Peg, wonder what the asking price would be?  I've stated before that acquiring Trouba, plus all the higher end talent we have drafted up front could very well allow us to give up a 2020 1st in a package without missing a beat in our rebuild. I'd even be ok with it being a NON lottery protected 1st.

Would you do AA, Helm, 2020 1st, 2019 2nd for Trouba? Or would it cost a bit more in NHL players? Would you replace the 2nd with Cholowski or Hronek? What does Winnipeg need? If they are trading Trouba, they may need a young D prospect, and I am sure they'd love AA on a line with Laine.

re: Zadina

IMO he (and Ras) have to be on this team in the fall. We need to make a deal or two in order to make that happen. As mentioned Frk would probably be the first casualty, but then who next? Do you revisit the Glenny to Toronto deal? Does a 5th round sound too low now if it meant having Zadina and Ras on the team? Babcock loves him so Glenny.  Or do you go a different route and try to deal Nyquist? I believe if they do deal him, it'll be at the TDL for a nice return like Tatar's haul we received.

Nielsen now has a M-NTC that includes a 10 team no-trade list. Would The Isles be interested in re-acquiring him? They have plenty of cap room, and are in need of a center now. He's no Tavares, but he is a bit better than Filppula. I doubt he gets traded though.

Bottom line is we need to have Zadina and Ras (at least) on this team this fall. I'd also love to have Veleno there, but I don't think he will be. So we really need to open up 2 roster spots up front (you can pretty much count on Frk getting waived) for this to happen. Somehow, someway...

It would be an injustice for either of those two to go back to juniors.

If we waived Frk and dealt Glenny, I'd love to see something along the lines of this:

AA - Larkin - Zadina

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Mantha

Ras - Nielsen - Vanek

Abby - Helm - Bertuzzi

(some players interchangeable of course)

(this is not reflecting a Trouba trade, if we acquired Trouba, we probably could open up 3 roster spots up front. Problem solved.)

Edited July 4, 2018 by LeftWinger

[Wingnut1989 165]

We need to move forwards for a top dman, much easier to land a forward in FA then a top pairing dman. Holland should be all in on karlsson. I think everyones tradable on this roster.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

4 minutes ago, Wingnut1989 said:

We need to move forwards for a top dman, much easier to land a forward in FA then a top pairing dman. Holland should be all in on karlsson. I think everyones tradable on this roster.

I honestly would not trade Larkin or Mantha for Karlsson. I may be in the minority, but I believe those two are pillars in our resurgence. Zadina has pretty much made AA tradeable, along with Nyquist at the TDL. We do need to move forwards to acquire that D-man, but if I'm moving good young forwards and high draft picks, I'm pursuing Trouba. What will Karlsson look like 9 years from now? What would Trouba look like 8 years from now? I'm putting my money on Trouba being still pretty good between the ages of 24-32 than Karlsson at 28-37. I think Trouba would cost less to acquire, but heck, he may never become available. It's not like we are hearing his name thrown around quite yet.

So, lets say you are all in on Karlsson (you have to take Ryan as well) so you have to give up a lot of picks and young talent along with clear cap. What is your offer? (what is Ottawa asking for, do we know?) (also I am sure it would cost more trading within the division as well.)

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Quote

Dreger was asked about the potential asset asking price for Karlsson.

“Well, as I said, it’ll be multiple first-round draft picks,” reiterated Dreger. “Or something equivalent too – a former first-round draft pick who’s a top prospect, right. So what’s that combination. It’s probably five quality assets or more.

I just don't think we should give up FIVE QUALITY assets (or more) for him. Plus, like I mentioned, being in the same division, the price may be even higher. PLUS you'd have to clear cap for his $11.5M (at least) and Ryan's $7.5M. That is why, I believe, Holland said no thanks to the sweeps.

Anyhow, if he were interested, you'd have to think that AA, Svech, Cholowski would be included in that, PLUS our next two or three 1st's. I am not sure even that would be enough. You may HAVE to include Mantha, and that would hurt us, losing all those assets, more than adding Karlsson would help us.

If Trouba became available, I am pretty positive it wouldn't cost that much.

[Wingnut1989 165]

seems like being forced to take Bobby Ryan would dimish Karlsson's trade value and you wouldn't have to give up nearly as much. But yeah i see what your saying Trouba would cost much less if we even get a chance though is the question.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Would you do AA, Helm, 2020 1st, 2019 2nd for Trouba? Or would it cost a bit more in NHL players? Would you replace the 2nd with Cholowski or Hronek? What does Winnipeg need? If they are trading Trouba, they may need a young D prospect, and I am sure they'd love AA on a line with Laine.

 

No. And neither would Cheveldayoff (he wouldn't want Helm, or 2 F coming back). I would do AA, 2019 2nd, and 2020 1st for Trouba. You could also include someone like Hicketts or Jensen and then have the Jets add a later pick.

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

I just don't think we should give up FIVE QUALITY assets (or more) for him.

Karlsson is just not worth that. Plus the assets going back is going to be really good prospects and picks. Adding Karlsson is great, but he won't complete the rebuild alone. You need to keep those picks and prospects for that.

Also, the same reasons I would go after Faulk instead. Roughly the same age, not going to have to commit to 9 years, and won't cost all of the assets to acquire him. I would do some combination of AA, Svech, 2019 2nd, 2020 1st for Faulk. Carolina just acquired Dougie Hamilton (RH) and they just signed de Haan, so they currently have Faulk, Hamilton, Pesce, and Van Riemsdyk down the right side and de Haan, Fleury, and Slavin down the left side. Faulk is more expendable now. Where they need help is up front. Even with Svechnikov, they have a pretty blah F group except for Aho and Teravainen, especially if they trade away Skinner. Carolina seems like perfect trade partners right now.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[LeftWinger 4,951]

If all it would take was AA, 2019 2nd, 2020 1st, I'd be all in for sure.Thats one less asset than I suggested and same draft picks. That would be great.

[e_prime 1,936]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I just don't think we should give up FIVE QUALITY assets (or more) for him.

The Sens are thinking they can get FIVE QUALITY assets for him NOW.

...teams should just wait.  As things slowly creep towards Karlsson walking for nothing in return, those prices are going to go down.  Sharply.

[marcaractac 3,962]

2 hours ago, Wingnut1989 said:

We need to move forwards for a top dman, much easier to land a forward in FA then a top pairing dman. Holland should be all in on karlsson. I think everyones tradable on this roster.

Holland should wait and see if he hits the open market next summer. It's likely that he will. Having Karlsson would be great, but not if it will set the rebuild back 3 years. 

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

53 minutes ago, e_prime said:

The Sens are thinking they can get FIVE QUALITY assets for him NOW.

...teams should just wait.  As things slowly creep towards Karlsson walking for nothing in return, those prices are going to go down.  Sharply.

The whole point is he'll be signed and traded. So you'll have him for 9 years 

[amato 3,210]

2 hours ago, Euro_Twins said:

The whole point is he'll be signed and traded. So you'll have him for 9 years 

A little nit picky, and not a huge deal, but wouldn’t he not have to be signed then traded if it’s before the season is over? Pretty sure his new team would still be able to extend him the 8 years since he’d be playing for them this coming season?

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

3 minutes ago, amato said:

A little nit picky, and not a huge deal, but wouldn’t he not have to be signed then traded if it’s before the season is over? Pretty sure his new team would still be able to extend him the 8 years since he’d be playing for them this coming season?

They could do it either way I suppose. But the only way they get what they want for him is if they are guaranteeing him for 9 years, which means the two interested parties and karlsson would have to agree on ths contract.